Sample report for steroid analysis in hair/nails

[haidut]

@haidut is there any concern for having such elevated levels of androgens in the tissue?
Also have you made any observations on male pattern hair loss? Any levels/ratios of steroids in those losing their hair? I ask cause for me, high DHT definitely is leading to hair loss at a much faster rate

I can't make health comments as it would imply we are doing medical tests, and also I am not allowed to comment on "optimal" levels of steroids. The only thing I can say is that the people with the high androgen levels in hair we analyzed so far did not have any symptoms their doctors found concerning.

 

[haidut]

I don’t know how much you know about this guy.

I wonder if he is familiar with peats work.

He has a cortisol supplement he sells which has emodin as one of the main ingredients and he is on trt but says he takes progesterone daily to counteract some of the side effects.
But who know?

Which guy are you referring to?

 

[sunny]

Great, thank you.

 

[tastyfood]

@haidut would you say androgens and precursors have an affinity for the cell, while estrogens prefer to hang around the bloodstream?

I wondered about this seeing how high precursors and androgens can get in the cell without changing blood levels much, while estrogenic values are seen to go above the range in your test but not so much, while they shoot up in blood results.

 

[haidut]

@haidut would you say androgens and precursors have an affinity for the cell, while estrogens prefer to hang around the bloodstream?

I wondered about this seeing how high precursors and androgens can get in the cell without changing blood levels much, while estrogenic values are seen to go above the range in your test but not so much, while they shoot up in blood results.

It seems that all steroids are in much higher amounts inside the cell compared to blood, but the cell has the highest affinity for the delta-5 steroids (pregnenolone and DHEA) as well as progesterone. Of those 3, the cells has the highest affinity for pregnenolone and that more or less matches with what Ray has been writing about those steroids - i..e can't really overdose on pregnenolone as the cell has a massive capacity for accumulation of it and basically will absorb whatever amount you throw at it. The cellular affinity for steroids seems to depend on the steroid's lipohilicity - i.e. the more lipohilic the more it accumulates into the cell. Pregnenolone is the most lipophilic of the endogenously produced ones, so that probably explains its high accumulation. Furthermore, pregnanes such as pregenolone and progesterone had higher accumulation preference compared to androgens, and estrogens had the lowest accumulation preference. That also matches the lipophilicity hypothesis as pregnanes are more lipophilic than androgens, which are more lipophilic than estrogens. Estrogens also happen to be the least lipophilic of the endogenous steroids, even less so than the glucocorticoids/mineralocorticoids (technically, pregnanes as well).

Rapid and structure-specific cellular uptake of selected steroids

Steroid hormones and their respective nuclear receptors are essential mediators in numerous physiologic and pathophysiologic processes, ranging from regulation of metabolism, immune function, and reproductive processes to the development of hormone-dependent ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"...In this study, we have demonstrated that cells from multiple tissue types uniformly have a tendency to accumulate free (non-protein-bound) steroid molecules at elevated concentrations. Although active mechanisms appear to contribute to the uptake of certain steroids, blocking active mechanisms by heat-killing cells prior to steroid treatment or by saturation reveals strikingly large passive components of steroid uptake. All steroids we tested reach elevated cellular concentrations, but the degree to which this occurs is dependent on steroid molecular structure; for example, cells preferentially take up 3β-OH, Δ5-steroids over steroids with 3-keto, Δ4-structural features and progestogens over androgens. "
"...Our major observation was that pregnenolone reached the highest concentrations of any steroid, with concentrations up to roughly 100 times the original treatment concentrations in the culture media, and that cells have strong preferences for 3β-OH, Δ5-steroids (i.e., pregnenolone and DHEA) vs. 3-keto, Δ4-structural features (i.e., progesterone and AD) and for progestogens vs. androgens."

 

[Lejeboca]

All steroids we tested reach elevated cellular concentrations, but the degree to which this occurs is dependent on steroid molecular structure;

* It seems that cells also can stay in this elevated concentration state for long too since these steroids are diffused in and out rather than "in/out-fused".
From the paper referenced above
" under this [heating] condition steroids can freely move into and out of cells and any elevated cellular concentration should be the result of passive, not active, processes. After incubation with steroids, both live and dead cells were pelleted and the steroid content of the media and cell pellets was measured. The results were striking: the uptake magnitudes were generally similar in dead cells as in parallel treated live cells"

* Haidut, might it be that caffeine potentiates the diffusion of lipophilic steroids, preg. and progest., into cells as it does so for T3 in the presence of PUFA, per your older post: Coffee Inhibits Cortisol Synthesis ?

I do intake about 400mg of caffeine daily (assuming broadly 1.5% of caffeine in coffee beans).

Anyone have any comments about the cells having some kind of "saturation point" when it comes to androgens and precursors? Can one walk around with massive levels of progesterone in tissues without running into trouble?

I am in the same boat as you re: high preg and prog. as average in my hair over about 8-10 months. Doing just fine.
I recall RP saying that during his experiment with ingesting a kilo of preg. he didn't have any negatives and felt more stress resilient.

Spoiler: My hair steroid test

 

[tastyfood]

I am in the same boat as you re: high preg and prog. as average in my hair over about 8-10 months. Doing just fine.
I recall RP saying that during his experiment with ingesting a kilo of preg. he didn't have any negatives and felt more stress resilient.

What if I am not seeing the results from these numbers in my life? Male fertility issues primarily. Doesn't that suggest something needs to change?

Estrone was high in your results. Looks like you are aromatizing?

I am envious of your corticosterone. Mine is double the upper limit of the range, and I think corticoids are causing a lot of my issues. My pituitary is on fire as seen in all my blood results (prolactin, ACTH, LH, FSH all high).

 

[haidut]

* Haidut, might it be that caffeine potentiates the diffusion of lipophilic steroids, preg. and progest., into cells as it does so for T3 in the presence of PUFA, per your older post: Coffee Inhibits Cortisol Synthesis ?

Caffeine has been shown to potentiate the update of steroids like Trenbolone, which structurally is about as lipohilic as estrogen - i.e. way less than pregnenolone/progesterone. So, if caffeine can do that for Trenbolone, then the effect is probably even stronger for the more lipophilic steroids such as P5 and P4. Some people would probably say that the potentiation effects of caffeine are dangerous as for a person with high estrogen synthesis it may mean higher estrogen uptake into the cell when ingesting caffeine. While that may be happening, caffeine actually helps the liver excrete more estrogen and also can literally disintegrate the estrogen "receptor" inside the cell, so that blocks most of estrogen's transcription effects.

Caffeine Is A Potent Anti-estrogen; Can Block Estrogen "receptor" Completely

After reading the study on caffeine and breast cancer I posted in a different thread, I found some facts that U thought warranted a separate thread. Here is the original thread. viewtopic.php?f=75&t=6481 It looks like caffeine has such a potent anti-estrogenic activity that it is capable of...

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