Pyelonephritis

[charmer]

I am currently going through the second time of having acute pyelonephritis in my life, the first time being this past summer. I just went through a round of antibiotics (peniciln group) to help my digestion, now this happened. I am wondering whether I caused it or perhaps it's a complication after a flu recently.

What doctors did last time is put me on several wide-range antibiotics, vit C, it came back in a week and I took another round of antibiotics, and that helped until now.

This time, I am experiencing mild pain from movement, an evarlasting need to urinate, etc. No fever yet this time.

What is the best strategy to keep pyelonephritis in check? The doc said it's always chronic one it happens the 1st time. How can I not exacerbate what I already have?

I read about mannose in another UTI thread, how much are you guys taking and for how long and when?

 

[Sheila]

Dear Charmer,
A few thoughts which I hope will be helpful.
In my experience, kidneys are very affected by bacterial toxin ingress. Often relief can be achieved - but it is symptomatic relief, not a cure - by doses of activated charcoal spaced out between meals to take the bacterial load off the system for a few days. Dose and duration is person specific.
Some cases appear due to the gut structure failure of lowered energy ie. not eating sufficient, not eating frequently enough, running on stress hormones, oestrogen's effects, irritating foods, and endotoxin or other irritants entering the blood stream where the kidneys will ultimately receive a dose.
If you were run down after a flu, and had not been eating sufficiently, and taking antibiotics (which will induce more activity in the liver and thereby needs more energy supplies to work) I think this could have contributed.
Not everyone gets kidney issues from these things, I do not know why some do, and some don't, but since repeated bouts can lead to scarring you may wish to consider your general energy levels and how they are supported.
Dr Peat suggests progesterone as very helpful for the kidneys and focusing on methods to decrease system-wide inflammation, including making sure phosphate levels are lowered.
Best of luck
Sheila

 

[bluewren]

Hi Charmer,
I feel for you! I know how painful pyelonephritis is. After my first bout, (which took me completely by surprise on my 50th birthday) I had 4 repeat bouts, requiring trips to A&E and a regime of I.V. antibiotics, and two hospital admissions. My GP suggested I carry Clamoxyl in my handbag.

I certainly agree that one bad attack predisposes you to more of them....

HOWEVER, since being on Thyroid meds ( T4/T3 combination), I've had no further bouts, and it has been two years now. I am over the moon with this result. I can only assume that undiagnosed hypothyroidism coupled with menopause was largely responsible.

I hope you find some answers on this forum. Keep reading and investigating, and perhaps check your thyroid function if this rings a bell. If you feel another attack coming on, nip it in the bud with antibiotics pronto.

All the best to you. Xx

 

[Blossom]

Didn't you mention taking diamox in a recent thread Charmer? IIRC this medicine would be contraindicated in kidney infections and you would probably benefit from discontinuing it.

 

[Blossom]

This is the thread I was referring to-
Hemorrhoids | Ray Peat Forum
Anyhow I believe diuretics can be a problem in UTI's and Kidney infections. One forum member reported blood in her urine possibly from Diamox so you may want to explore this connection further.

 

[charmer]

This is the thread I was referring to-
Hemorrhoids | Ray Peat Forum
Anyhow I believe diuretics can be a problem in UTI's and Kidney infections. One forum member reported blood in her urine possibly from Diamox so you may want to explore this connection further.

Thanks a lot, I wasn't aware of this connection

 

[Blossom]

You're welcome, I hope you feel better soon charmer.

 

[SQu]

Dear Charmer,
A few thoughts which I hope will be helpful.
In my experience, kidneys are very affected by bacterial toxin ingress. Often relief can be achieved - but it is symptomatic relief, not a cure - by doses of activated charcoal spaced out between meals to take the bacterial load off the system for a few days. Dose and duration is person specific.
Some cases appear due to the gut structure failure of lowered energy ie. not eating sufficient, not eating frequently enough, running on stress hormones, oestrogen's effects, irritating foods, and endotoxin or other irritants entering the blood stream where the kidneys will ultimately receive a dose.
If you were run down after a flu, and had not been eating sufficiently, and taking antibiotics (which will induce more activity in the liver and thereby needs more energy supplies to work) I think this could have contributed.
Not everyone gets kidney issues from these things, I do not know why some do, and some don't, but since repeated bouts can lead to scarring you may wish to consider your general energy levels and how they are supported.
Dr Peat suggests progesterone as very helpful for the kidneys and focusing on methods to decrease system-wide inflammation, including making sure phosphate levels are lowered.
Best of luck
Sheila

I too am very keen to prevent another bout of pyelo nephritis in my 15 year old daughter with a history of one uti and tendency to gastric distress and bad monthly pms, which I help her manage fairly successfully with gelatin, aspirin, caffeine, a little cypro heptadine, minerals, b1, vit a. I see estrogen and low thyroid signs but at her age I'd prefer to focus on the Vits and nutrition. I hate to think she may be on a path to more uti/pyelo nephritis troubles.

 

[moss]

@charmer
@SQu

Nutrition For Women
Ray Peat

INFECTIONS
"n the winter of 1974 a young professor visited me to talk about Blake College, and we started talking about nutrition and health. After I told him some stories about antibiotics and vitamin A, he mentioned that he had a chronic, active and uncomfortable infection of the urethra (non-specific urethritis, a bacterial infection of the urinary canal, usually involving E. coli, the common intestinal bacteria, and less often Proteus, Staphylococcus aureus, Enterobacter, Pseudomonas, etc.) for nearly two years. Twice he had been given a month's course of high potency antibiotics, which suppressed the symptoms while he continued to take them, but the condition returned immediately when he stopped taking the antibiotics. He was interested in trying to nutritionally raise his immunity, so I gave him liver for lunch, and suggested that he eat some daily, and gave him a week's supply of vitamins A, E, folic acid, B6, potassium and magnesium. He was scheduled to come back to town in a week, so I asked him to let me know how he felt then. About a day later, he came back in a very surprised state, and said the infection had already completely cleared up. This spring (1975) he came back and is still free of the infection. This sort of infection is more common in women, and usually takes longer to clear up."


I concur with Sheila, AC for a few days will lessen the bacterial load.
SQu, think you may have mentioned in the past you are located in Sth Africa?
There is a wonderful South African herb called Buchu which you are probably familiar with. It is quite expensive and I have trouble getting it from time to time.
It is a very helpful urinary antiseptic, relieve spasms and is soothing to the urinary system and not a bad back up if vitamins/nutrition is not cutting it and you don't wish to go with another round of antibiotics should the condition re-assert itself. You may be able to get it as a tincture? If you have it as a tea, don't boil it as you lose the aromatic oils.

 

[SQu]

Wow moss, thank you! I do know buchu, have used in the past. It has a pleasant bitter astringency. My daughter likes tastes like that - eg Swedish bitters, green tea, herbal teas, rooibos, lemon flavours, sour but mostly bitter, and I thought that was possibly meaningful because of the association with aiding digestion. She has tested positive in the past for h. Pylori. Buchu is easy to find but I'll look for the tincture. I also have sutherlandia or cancer bush, interestingly also bitter yet 'clean' tasting. I've looked into it a bit ( not for this purpose), but conflicting reports so haven't taken it further so far. So charmer maybe the digestion issue is worth pursuing? bitter things? such a great idea about the buchu, thank you moss.

 

[moss]

Hi SQu
Thought you would have used Buchu and agree it is a very pleasant smell and taste. Interesting your daughters goes for 'bitters' and you are right, that is meaningful because they will help correct gut chemistry and stimulate appetite. I have not heard of Sutherlandia, just looked it up, a pretty bush, hardy and drought tolerant (due to low rainfalls that appeals to me!) and I have no thoughts wrt using it and think you are wise to trust your gut if unsure due to conflicting reports.

 

[SQu]

I found buchu water which is the form I remember. I'll update! I thought of sutherlandia because they come from the same area, are similarly bitter. Folk remedy for some cancers, no reason to link to utis.