Feedback On New Everyday + Preworkout Stack?

[faxmulder]

Hi guys,

M34, 1.81m, 73kg.

My issues: hay fever, TH2 autoimmune disease, dry itchy skin and scalp, cold hands. Bloodworks highlighted low vit D and low LH, cholesterol slightly above the range.

Do you see any bad interaction in the stack below? Please take a look also at my considerations in italic.

Do you have any suggestion for dry skin? I've seen that the following supps could help: iodine, collagen, royal jelly, NAG, omega 3 (also omega 6 and omega 9 could be helpful according to some reviews), oral coconut oil.

Thanks!


Everyday

1. SAM-e (neurotransmitters "health", mood and positive outlook, sleep, liver support - don't know if TMG is better though)
2. B complex
3. NAC (for mild OCD tendencies, i.e. repetitive checking behaviours. Maybe saffron could be an alternative?)
4. vit D3 + vit K2
5. chlorella (cycled with spirulina)
6. pine bark extract (cycled with grape seed extract; I'm taking this and citrulline mainly for cold hands issues)
7. citrulline (half dose, full dose on workout days)
8. magnesium
9. E complex
10. curcumin + resveratrol + vit C (MD prescribed this mix for controlling autoimmune flareups)

Workout days

1. cordyceps (cycled with another adaptogen, e.g. ginseng/rhodiola/eleuthero)
2. forskolin
3. agmatine
4. dynamine (I discontinued coffee recently)
5. taurine
6. beta alanine (is carnosine the same, as far as the effects?)

 

[Hans]

Hi guys,

M34, 1.81m, 73kg.

My issues: hay fever, TH2 autoimmune disease, dry itchy skin and scalp, cold hands. Bloodworks highlighted low vit D and low LH, cholesterol slightly above the range.

Do you see any bad interaction in the stack below? Please take a look also at my considerations in italic.

Do you have any suggestion for dry skin? I've seen that the following supps could help: iodine, collagen, royal jelly, NAG, omega 3 (also omega 6 and omega 9 could be helpful according to some reviews), oral coconut oil.

Thanks!


Everyday

1. SAM-e (neurotransmitters "health", mood and positive outlook, sleep, liver support - don't know if TMG is better though)
2. B complex
3. NAC (for mild OCD tendencies, i.e. repetitive checking behaviours. Maybe saffron could be an alternative?)
4. vit D3 + vit K2
5. chlorella (cycled with spirulina)
6. pine bark extract (cycled with grape seed extract; I'm taking this and citrulline mainly for cold hands issues)
7. citrulline (half dose, full dose on workout days)
8. magnesium
9. E complex
10. curcumin + resveratrol + vit C (MD prescribed this mix for controlling autoimmune flareups)

Workout days

1. cordyceps (cycled with another adaptogen, e.g. ginseng/rhodiola/eleuthero)
2. forskolin
3. agmatine
4. dynamine (I discontinued coffee recently)
5. taurine
6. beta alanine (is carnosine the same, as far as the effects?)

Are you an undermethylator? Messing with methyl donors might not be the best idea if you don't know your methyl status.
Blocking the 5-HT2C receptor (with ginseng and silk tree) and also lowering glutamate and blocking glutamate receptors (by increasing ATP and thyroid, using zinc, Mg, theanine and glycine) can greatly help with OCD.

Why are you taking citrulline? Is it for its touted performance-enhancing benefits or for another reason?
Curcumin is a 5-HT2C agonist, so might worsen OCD. Resveratrol is estrogenic.

Beta-alanine is better at increasing carnosine than carnosine itself, so keep on using that.

 

[Auslander]

That's a solid feedback Hans

 

[faxmulder]

Are you an undermethylator? Messing with methyl donors might not be the best idea if you don't know your methyl status.
Blocking the 5-HT2C receptor (with ginseng and silk tree) and also lowering glutamate and blocking glutamate receptors (by increasing ATP and thyroid, using zinc, Mg, theanine and glycine) can greatly help with OCD.

Why are you taking citrulline? Is it for its touted performance-enhancing benefits or for another reason?
Curcumin is a 5-HT2C agonist, so might worsen OCD. Resveratrol is estrogenic.

Beta-alanine is better at increasing carnosine than carnosine itself, so keep on using that.

Thanks man! A few comments and questions, it's quite a long list but your feedback is always much appreciated:

• TBH I don't know if I'm an undermethylator, is there a specific test? Do you advise to stop SAMe/TMG for the moment? I started taking SAMe because I think it's helping with mood and positive outlook. Could saffron be a better alternative?

• american or asian ginseng for OCD? Do you have any experience with Nootropics Depot's PanaMax? It's a blend of ginseng and schisandra.
  
  
• I've never heard about silk tree, I'll look into it
  
  
• lowering glutamate and increasing ATP: could I take respectively NAC for glutamate (since it helps also with OCD) and cordyceps for ATP, or is there something better, e.g. ubiquinol?
  
  
• What for boosting thyroid? Kelp would work, since it contains iodine?
  
  
• I've tried theanine in the past and after a few days I started feeling kinda depressed, very odd

• basically I've started citrulline + pine bark extract for cold hands. I think that they're also helping with overall energy, I'm still tinkering with the dosage though
  
  
• actually the mix curcumin + resveratrol + vit C was prescribed by dermatologist for controlling autoimmune disease symptoms (I have lupus on scalp causing itch and inflammation). I'm taking this mix only 2 months - 2 times a year. Can you suggest something to take along this mix to counter-balance resveratrol's estrogenic effects?
  
  
• I've seen that supplementing with beta alanine/carnosine reduces taurine levels: should I supplement both at the same time, or BA before workout and taurine in the morning/evening? Which dosages?
  
  
• which is in your opinion the best adaptogen for pre-workout? Do you have other amendements/additions to my preworkout stack? I'm considering adding forskolin and agmatine since, along other benefits, they should increase LH (bloodworks shown that it's a bit low, along with vit D)

 

[Hans]

Thanks man! A few comments and questions, it's quite a long list but your feedback is always much appreciated:

• TBH I don't know if I'm an undermethylator, is there a specific test? Do you advise to stop SAMe/TMG for the moment? I started taking SAMe because I think it's helping with mood and positive outlook. Could saffron be a better alternative?

• american or asian ginseng for OCD? Do you have any experience with Nootropics Depot's PanaMax? It's a blend of ginseng and schisandra.
  
  
• I've never heard about silk tree, I'll look into it
  
  
• lowering glutamate and increasing ATP: could I take respectively NAC for glutamate (since it helps also with OCD) and cordyceps for ATP, or is there something better, e.g. ubiquinol?
  
  
• What for boosting thyroid? Kelp would work, since it contains iodine?
  
  
• I've tried theanine in the past and after a few days I started feeling kinda depressed, very odd

• basically I've started citrulline + pine bark extract for cold hands. I think that they're also helping with overall energy, I'm still tinkering with the dosage though
  
  
• actually the mix curcumin + resveratrol + vit C was prescribed by dermatologist for controlling autoimmune disease symptoms (I have lupus on scalp causing itch and inflammation). I'm taking this mix only 2 months - 2 times a year. Can you suggest something to take along this mix to counter-balance resveratrol's estrogenic effects?
  
  
• I've seen that supplementing with beta alanine/carnosine reduces taurine levels: should I supplement both at the same time, or BA before workout and taurine in the morning/evening? Which dosages?
  
  
• which is in your opinion the best adaptogen for pre-workout? Do you have other amendements/additions to my preworkout stack? I'm considering adding forskolin and agmatine since, along other benefits, they should increase LH (bloodworks shown that it's a bit low, along with vit D)

For methylation, you can do a 23andMe test and/or test homocysteine. If homocysteine is high, it most likely indicates undermethylation and SAMe won't help with that.
Plain Panax ginseng would do. No, I'm not familiar with that supplement, but it sounds good.
You don't have to get silk tree, Panax ginseng would do.

Yes NAC and cordyceps would work, but boosting ATP is a whole can of worms. It could be low for many reasons. Most of the time it starts in the electron transport chain, with one of more complex that isn't functioning optimally. Often it's due to PUFAs which makes the cell membranes too fluid, electrons leak and oxidize the cardiolipin and then the complexes don't work very well anymore. Then the body has to increase beta-oxidation and glycolysis to increase ATP production and this usually when all the trouble starts.
Fixing the electron transport chain is key with avoiding PUFAs, promoting fusion (stearic acid and even fasting dare I say) and promoting PGC-1a (for mitochondrial biogenesis). There is a lot of things that promote PGC-1a, such as exercise, cold, sunlight, calcium, aspirin, thyroid, quercetin, Rhodiola, EGCG, caffeine, forskolin, etc.

For cold hands, I would rather focus on fixing the thyroid. Where are your temps and pulse at? Boosting thyroid can also be a bit difficult, but I'd start with a slight surplus (or just eating what my body demands), lots of carbs, salt, protein, and avoiding plastics, halogens, heavy metals, unfiltered water, anti-thyroid veggies, stress, etc.
A nice oxtail soup with starches, salt and a warming herb like cayenne would heat you up real good.

Estrogen is most often involved in autoimmune conditions, and the itch could indicate it's histamine as well. Low thyroid would lead to elevated serotonin, so all in all it could be elevated cortisol, estrogen, serotonin and histamine. I would rather try small doses of cypro and progesterone, topically where it itches. And drop the resveratrol completely.

Yes beta-alanine could reduce taurine, so supplementing extra is a good idea. I think you can still take them together.

For pre-workout, I'd just keep it simple:
1tsp to 1 tbsp sodium bicarb to reduce lactate and hyperventilation and to increase CO2.
100-500mg vitamin B1 to boost glucose oxidation.
50mg vitamin B2
500mg niacinamide
1tsp glycine
2g taurine

That should help keep cortisol and serotonin low and then there is no need to take additional herbs. But if you want to take herbs, I'd take Rhodiola and/or Tribulus and Tongkat Ali. Tribulus can also increase LH so I'd use that instead of forskolin. Forskolin has been shown to cause fatty liver in animal models so I'm a bit wary.

 

[faxmulder]

For methylation, you can do a 23andMe test and/or test homocysteine. If homocysteine is high, it most likely indicates undermethylation and SAMe won't help with that.
Plain Panax ginseng would do. No, I'm not familiar with that supplement, but it sounds good.
You don't have to get silk tree, Panax ginseng would do.

Yes NAC and cordyceps would work, but boosting ATP is a whole can of worms. It could be low for many reasons. Most of the time it starts in the electron transport chain, with one of more complex that isn't functioning optimally. Often it's due to PUFAs which makes the cell membranes too fluid, electrons leak and oxidize the cardiolipin and then the complexes don't work very well anymore. Then the body has to increase beta-oxidation and glycolysis to increase ATP production and this usually when all the trouble starts.
Fixing the electron transport chain is key with avoiding PUFAs, promoting fusion (stearic acid and even fasting dare I say) and promoting PGC-1a (for mitochondrial biogenesis). There is a lot of things that promote PGC-1a, such as exercise, cold, sunlight, calcium, aspirin, thyroid, quercetin, Rhodiola, EGCG, caffeine, forskolin, etc.

For cold hands, I would rather focus on fixing the thyroid. Where are your temps and pulse at? Boosting thyroid can also be a bit difficult, but I'd start with a slight surplus (or just eating what my body demands), lots of carbs, salt, protein, and avoiding plastics, halogens, heavy metals, unfiltered water, anti-thyroid veggies, stress, etc.
A nice oxtail soup with starches, salt and a warming herb like cayenne would heat you up real good.

Estrogen is most often involved in autoimmune conditions, and the itch could indicate it's histamine as well. Low thyroid would lead to elevated serotonin, so all in all it could be elevated cortisol, estrogen, serotonin and histamine. I would rather try small doses of cypro and progesterone, topically where it itches. And drop the resveratrol completely.

Yes beta-alanine could reduce taurine, so supplementing extra is a good idea. I think you can still take them together.

For pre-workout, I'd just keep it simple:
1tsp to 1 tbsp sodium bicarb to reduce lactate and hyperventilation and to increase CO2.
100-500mg vitamin B1 to boost glucose oxidation.
50mg vitamin B2
500mg niacinamide
1tsp glycine
2g taurine

That should help keep cortisol and serotonin low and then there is no need to take additional herbs. But if you want to take herbs, I'd take Rhodiola and/or Tribulus and Tongkat Ali. Tribulus can also increase LH so I'd use that instead of forskolin. Forskolin has been shown to cause fatty liver in animal models so I'm a bit wary.

Thanks for your insight, very interesting stuff as always.

• cold hands: my wake-up temp is 36,4 celsius, pulse around 73/75. What's your feedback about the combo kelp (iodine) + selenium for boosting thyroid levels?
  In the meantime, since I'm having some results, can I continue the combo citrulline + pine bark, or is it harmful in any way?
  
  
• calcium: I'd be interested in supplementing it, since it seems to have many benefits, also in keeping right testosterone vs estrogen ratio.
  However I have two concerns: could I risk increasing soft tissues (and scalp) calcification by supplementing calcium? Can it cause constipation? Which is the best form? I've read about calcium glucarate, but according to some posts it could decrease all hormones' levels, not only estrogen
  
  
• dry skin: I think iodine could help also with this? What do you think about vit C + glucosamine + MSM?
  
  
• herbs: I'll look into ginseng, rhodiola, tribulus and tongkat ali
  
  
• do you have any feedback about agmatine boosting LH?
  
  
• is there anything that I could supply orally for lowering histamine and consequent itch on scalp? IIRC vit A should help (along with vit E and D) for autoimmune diseases, in modulating the immune response. I've added chlorella to my stack since it is a natural source of beta carotene, next I'll try cod liver oil
  
  
• diet: yep, I need to increase my calories intake, in particular carbs, since in these past years I have been doing 70% protein, 20% carbs and 10% fats

 

[Hans]

Thanks for your insight, very interesting stuff as always.

• cold hands: my wake-up temp is 36,4 celsius, pulse around 73/75. What's your feedback about the combo kelp (iodine) + selenium for boosting thyroid levels?
  In the meantime, since I'm having some results, can I continue the combo citrulline + pine bark, or is it harmful in any way?
  
  
• calcium: I'd be interested in supplementing it, since it seems to have many benefits, also in keeping right testosterone vs estrogen ratio.
  However I have two concerns: could I risk increasing soft tissues (and scalp) calcification by supplementing calcium? Can it cause constipation? Which is the best form? I've read about calcium glucarate, but according to some posts it could decrease all hormones' levels, not only estrogen
  
  
• dry skin: I think iodine could help also with this? What do you think about vit C + glucosamine + MSM?
  
  
• herbs: I'll look into ginseng, rhodiola, tribulus and tongkat ali
  
  
• do you have any feedback about agmatine boosting LH?
  
  
• is there anything that I could supply orally for lowering histamine and consequent itch on scalp? IIRC vit A should help (along with vit E and D) for autoimmune diseases, in modulating the immune response. I've added chlorella to my stack since it is a natural source of beta carotene, next I'll try cod liver oil
  
  
• diet: yep, I need to increase my calories intake, in particular carbs, since in these past years I have been doing 70% protein, 20% carbs and 10% fats

Iodine and selenium can help if your intake is low, but if it's not, then it wouldn't help much. Cortisol, noradrenaline and adrenaline is the main inhibitors of thyroid, so keeping those under control would be key to upping temps. Cold hands is a sign of elevated catecholamines and I think it might be due to low carb intake. 20% is relatively low and with 70% protein, you might be getting too much phosphate which is increasing PTH and slowing down thyroid function.

I don't think a little citrulline + pine bark would be dangerous no, unless you already have an excess of nitric oxide, or at least something, like endotoxins, that's boosting NO levels, and that would be dangerous and destructive.

I think calcium supplementation is fine if your diet is low in that, but I would try to get it from food. My first choice would be egg shell calcium and I'd take vitamin K2 with it. Calcium never gave me constipation, so you'll have to experiment to see. Calcium glucarate is not a good form for calcium, but rather calcium carbonate as it's present in milk and eggshell. Leafy green veggie broth can also be a good source of calcium.

For dry skin, IGF-1 can increase oiliness. In terms of supplements, biotin might be a good choice. Iodine perhaps as well, but can't say for sure. Can't comment on vit C + glucosamine + MSM stack as I don't have experience with it. I know that people that use finasteride get dry and thin skin, so it might also be a 5-alpha reduced steroid deficiency. Copper is also needed for skin synthesis and repair and sulfur lowers copper.

Yes agmatine can boost LH, but if it will significantly increase testosterone I'm not sure. It is really cool compound though.

The molecular and metabolic influence of long term agmatine consumption. - PubMed - NCBI
"Subsequently, AGM (agmatine) had a widespread impact on gene expression and metabolic profiling including (a) activation of peroxisomal proliferator-activated receptor-α and its coactivator, PGC1α, and (b) increased expression of peroxisomal proliferator-activated receptor-γ and genes regulating thermogenesis, gluconeogenesis, and carnitine biosynthesis and transport. The changes in gene expression were coupled with improved tissue and systemic levels of carnitine and short chain acylcarnitine, increased β-oxidation but diminished incomplete fatty acid oxidation, decreased fat but increased protein mass, and increased hepatic ureagenesis and gluconeogenesis but decreased glycolysis. These metabolic changes were coupled with reduced weight gain and a curtailment of the hormonal and metabolic derangements associated with high fat diet-induced obesity. The findings suggest that AGM elevated the synthesis and levels of cAMP, thereby mimicking the effects of caloric restriction with respect to metabolic reprogramming."

Copper is the cofactor for the enzymes that breaks histamine down. Vitamin C can help lower histamine. Supplementing the enzyme DAO can help lower histamine.

 

[faxmulder]

Iodine and selenium can help if your intake is low, but if it's not, then it wouldn't help much. Cortisol, noradrenaline and adrenaline is the main inhibitors of thyroid, so keeping those under control would be key to upping temps. Cold hands is a sign of elevated catecholamines and I think it might be due to low carb intake. 20% is relatively low and with 70% protein, you might be getting too much phosphate which is increasing PTH and slowing down thyroid function.

I don't think a little citrulline + pine bark would be dangerous no, unless you already have an excess of nitric oxide, or at least something, like endotoxins, that's boosting NO levels, and that would be dangerous and destructive.

I think calcium supplementation is fine if your diet is low in that, but I would try to get it from food. My first choice would be egg shell calcium and I'd take vitamin K2 with it. Calcium never gave me constipation, so you'll have to experiment to see. Calcium glucarate is not a good form for calcium, but rather calcium carbonate as it's present in milk and eggshell. Leafy green veggie broth can also be a good source of calcium.

For dry skin, IGF-1 can increase oiliness. In terms of supplements, biotin might be a good choice. Iodine perhaps as well, but can't say for sure. Can't comment on vit C + glucosamine + MSM stack as I don't have experience with it. I know that people that use finasteride get dry and thin skin, so it might also be a 5-alpha reduced steroid deficiency. Copper is also needed for skin synthesis and repair and sulfur lowers copper.

Yes agmatine can boost LH, but if it will significantly increase testosterone I'm not sure. It is really cool compound though.

The molecular and metabolic influence of long term agmatine consumption. - PubMed - NCBI
"Subsequently, AGM (agmatine) had a widespread impact on gene expression and metabolic profiling including (a) activation of peroxisomal proliferator-activated receptor-α and its coactivator, PGC1α, and (b) increased expression of peroxisomal proliferator-activated receptor-γ and genes regulating thermogenesis, gluconeogenesis, and carnitine biosynthesis and transport. The changes in gene expression were coupled with improved tissue and systemic levels of carnitine and short chain acylcarnitine, increased β-oxidation but diminished incomplete fatty acid oxidation, decreased fat but increased protein mass, and increased hepatic ureagenesis and gluconeogenesis but decreased glycolysis. These metabolic changes were coupled with reduced weight gain and a curtailment of the hormonal and metabolic derangements associated with high fat diet-induced obesity. The findings suggest that AGM elevated the synthesis and levels of cAMP, thereby mimicking the effects of caloric restriction with respect to metabolic reprogramming."

Copper is the cofactor for the enzymes that breaks histamine down. Vitamin C can help lower histamine. Supplementing the enzyme DAO can help lower histamine.

All clear, thanks a lot for your help!