A ubiquitous dishwasher rinse agent may cause many serious diseases

[Happycat]

Ditto on the thank you and awaiting their reply.

This is one of the ingredients in the Ecover dishwasher tablets, from their website: FATTY ALCOHOL ALKOXYLATE.

Is it one of the bad ones?

 

[sunny]

Ethoxylates, block polymers, polysorbates | Lamberti Group

Fatty alcohols, acids & amines, alkyl & trystyrylphenols, sorbitans esters are R.M. for our range of Ethoxylates, Polysorbates and Block Copolymers.

www.lamberti.com

It lookes like it probably is. I wonder if it makes a difference when it is in the wash cycle of a home Dishwasher, that then has a rinse cycle.

The study talks about the commercial rinse agent drying on the dishes - "A more detailed analysis showed that one component of the rinse agent – alcohol ethoxylates – was responsible for this reaction."

 

[Cow]

Ecover Zero tabs don't have that and work great. I don't even rinse the dishes first.

 

[Epik]

I have a similar one from ECOVER and i have emailed the company and asked if theres alcohol ethoxylates in there.

Don't bother, I just ordered their automatic dishwasher soap tablets. The Amazon ingredients list didn't have it but when I received it, it had it as fatty alcohol alkoxylate.

 

[Mauritio]

Don't bother, I just ordered their automatic dishwasher soap tablets. The Amazon ingredients list didn't have it but when I received it, it had it as fatty alcohol alkoxylate.

Well I received it already too and it's not listed on mine ...

 

[Cow]

Don't bother, I just ordered their automatic dishwasher soap tablets. The Amazon ingredients list didn't have it but when I received it, it had it as fatty alcohol alkoxylate.

OMG! I just looked at my box of Ecover Zero and it IS listed on the box. This ***t makes me so angry. I read the following, but still can't tell if it is dangerous...

Acute toxicity and relationship between metabolites and ecotoxicity during the biodegradation process of non-ionic surfactants: fatty-alcohol ethoxylates, nonylphenol polyethoxylate and alkylpolyglucosides - PubMed

The toxicity values of fatty-alcohol ethoxylates, nonylphenol polyethoxylate, and alkylpolyglucosides have been determined by applying assays with luminescent bacteria. Also, the relation between metabolites and ecotoxicity during the biodegradation process has been determined. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://safety365.sevron.co.uk/substances/accessSDS/SDS-6943-572c1d88e85b86.27773827

 

[sunny]

Dirty Labs Scent Free? Says no ethoxylates.

"Clean Ingredients.
Ingredients List: Sodium citrate (6132-04-3), Sodium carbonate (497-19-8), Sodium carbonate peroxide (15630-89-4), Sodium gluconate (527-07-1), Protease (Subtilisin) (aep) (9014-01-1), Sorbitan caprylate (60177-36-8), Hydrous sodium silicate powder (1344-09-8), Sodium carboxymethyl inulin (9004-32-4), Alpha-amylase (aep) (430439-54-6), Calcium silicate (1344-95-2), Silicon dioxide (112926-00-8)."

Amazon product ASIN B09B85NGBTView: https://www.amazon.com/Dirty-Labs-Dishwasher-Detergent-Concentrated/dp/B09B85NGBT/ref=sr_1_9?crid=3N69MGBRYORXW&keywords=ecover%2Bdishwasher%2Bpowder&qid=1698593752&sprefix=ecover%2Bpow%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-9&th=1

 

[Dr. B]

Another article demonstrating that a ubiquitous chemical, widely used in both industrial and household settings, has very toxic effects on the GI tract of humans and can directly cause a number of GI and neurological diseases, as well as cancer. While the study only looked at the so-called alcohol ethoxylates, used in the vast majority of commercial dishwashers, I am not convinced that the findings only apply to those ingredients. Most dishwasher detergents also contain artificial dyes and fragrances, many of which have been proven to have detrimental effects on human health. As such, I think it would be wise to avoid any commercial dishwasher liquid that consists of anything more than plain liquid soap (i.e. glycerin or other fatty-acid-derived types). No coloring, no flavors - i.e. same simple soap as the one grandma used 75 years ago to wash the dishes.

DEFINE_ME
Commercial Dishwashers Destroy Protective Layer in Gut

"...A typical cycle in a commercial dishwasher involves circulating hot water and detergent for around 60 seconds at high pressure. Afterwards, there is a second 60-second washing and drying cycle in which water and a rinse agent are applied. “What’s especially alarming is that in many appliances, there’s no additional wash cycle to remove the remaining rinse aid,” says Cezmi Akdis, UZH professor of experimental allergology and immunology and director of the SIAF, who led the study. “This means that potentially toxic substances remain on the dishes, where they then dry in place.” When the dishes are used the next time, this dried chemical residue can easily end up in the gastrointestinal tract. This inspired the research team under Akdis to investigate what effect the components of commercial-grade detergents and rinse agents have on the epithelial barrier in the gut – the layer of cells that lines the intestinal tract and controls what enters the body. A defect in this barrier is associated with conditions such as food allergies, gastritis, diabetes, obesity, cirrhosis of the liver, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, autism spectrum disorders, chronic depression and Alzheimer’s disease. Similar protective layers are also present on the skin and in the lungs. As numerous studies have shown, many additives and chemicals that we encounter in everyday life can damage these layers. “We assume that defective epithelial barriers play a role in triggering the onset of two billion chronic illnesses,” says Akdis. This connection is explained by the epithelial barrier hypothesis, which Akdis has helped develop during his more than 20 years of research in this field. The researchers used a newly developed technology for their study – human intestinal organoids and intestinal cells on microchips. The tissue forms a three-dimensional clump of cells that is very similar to the intestinal epithelium in humans. The team used various biomolecular methods to analyze the effect that commercial detergents and rinse aids have on these cells. They diluted these substances to reflect the amounts that would be present on dry dishes (1:10,000 to 1:40,000). The result was that high doses of rinse agents killed the intestinal epithelial cells and lower doses made it more permeable. Researchers also observed the activation of several genes and cell signaling proteins that could trigger inflammatory responses. A more detailed analysis showed that one component of the rinse agent – alcohol ethoxylates – was responsible for this reaction."

@ecstatichamster im hoping to get some input on this from someone knowledgeable. I had thought about the issues with dishwasher soap previously. Another concern is if you dont do a high water/longer rinse time in the dishwasher its also possible remnants of the dishwasher soap could remain on the dishes.


In this case is it actually better to use disposable plastic utensils, bowls and cups? For example for milk or juice, either drink directly from their own plastic bottle, or use the red dixie cups to drink them?
For yogurt or skyr, use the disposable white plastic spoons?
Plastic is supposed to be much safer for colder items, so are the risks fairly minimal if you stuck to plastic cups/spoons and disposable paper bowls for cereal or yogurt?

For warm items, you would have to use ceramic or glass or metal… but if you dont eat warm items often, you dont have to worry on that so much



Also i know there are milk and yogurt products available in glass containers but the problem is they arent as high quality as the other products. Like there isnt any organic , A2A2, 100% grass fed, non homogenized milk or yogurt available in glass containers. Plus I believe the glass containers will have the same issues as dishwasher soap. Because the companies selling dairy products in glass containers actually charge you a bottle fee of a few dollars which you then return back to the store for a refund. Then they clean the glass containers and reuse them.

So when weighing the options is the best choice just to drink juice, milk, yogurt, etc directly from their plastic containers? I also am thinking, the milk and juice already came into contact with their own plastic containers, so if you then use them alongside dishwasher cleaned dishes or utensils, you are adding more toxins into the mix.


I had been using plastic spoons for skyr or yogurt anyway, due to the convenience factor of not needing to do dishes.

 

[sunny]

IF YOU CARE dishwasher tablets? EDITED: NO GO ON THIS ONE - DECETH-6 , WHICH IS ANOTHER NAME FOR Alcohol ethoxylates

"Ingredients: Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Carbonate Peroxide, Sodium Polyacrylate, Taed, Deceth-6, Sodium Bicarbonate, Citric Acid, Subtilisin Enzyme Blend, Bentonite, Ceteareth-25, Sodium Silicate, Amylase Enzyme Blend."

Amazon product ASIN B00HBBX9ZOView: https://www.amazon.com/You-Care-Concentrated-Biodegradable-Dishwashing/dp/B00HBBX9ZO/ref=sr_1_16?crid=3N69MGBRYORXW&keywords=ecover+dishwasher+powder&qid=1698593752&sprefix=ecover+pow%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-16

 

[sunny]

Nellies Dishwasher powder : EDIT - MAYBE NOT THIS EITHER BECAUSE OF SODIUM METASILICATE - "sodium metasilicate is rated F by the EWG. It is extremely caustic, which means it can cause severe skin burns, eye damage and respiratory irritation. If you are looking for safe dishwasher detergents, avoid products with sodium metasilicate - sodium silicate is much safer, and just as effective!"

Ingredients: Sodium Chloride, Sodium Carbonate, Citric Acid, Sodium Sulfate, Sodium Percarbonate, Sodium Metasilicate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Silicate, Protease.

Amazon product ASIN B07J66814KView: https://www.amazon.com/Nellies-Dishwasher-Powder-50-Scoops/dp/B07J66814K/ref=sr_1_20_sspa?crid=3N69MGBRYORXW&keywords=ecover+dishwasher+powder&qid=1698593752&sprefix=ecover+pow%2Caps%2C110&sr=8-20-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&psc=1

 

[sunny]

Harmful Chemicals In Dishwasher Detergent
Most of us are not chemists, and usually struggle when looking at the ingredient list of any cleaning, dish washing or laundry product. We can’t pronounce most of the ingredients, let alone know what these ingredients are and whether they are safe to use.

EWG lists the individual ingredients of the products and their ratings, so you can check whether any of the ingredients are D rated or even worse, and why. This helps you find safe and healthy products.

For your ease, we have compiled a list of ingredients commonly found in Dishwasher Packs that you should avoid:

Ethoxylated Ingredients

Ethoxylated ingredients are often used as surfactants in cleaning, dish washing and laundry products because they are cheap and effective - almost every cleaning product on the market contains ethoxylated ingredients. They are the result of reacting ethylene oxide with other chemicals.

However, ethylene oxide is listed as a known human carcinogen and an endocrine disruptor, causing reproductive issues and genetic defects. It is also toxic if inhaled, and a known irritant and asthmagen.

A byproduct of ethoxylation is 1,4-dioxane. 1,4-dioxane is a strongly suspected human carcinogen. It is also a known irritant, and can damage the nervous system. New York was the first US state that recently set a maximum contaminant limit for 1,4-dioxane in personal care and household cleaning products.

Ethoxylated ingredients themselves typically have low levels of concerns, but they are contaminated with ethylene oxide and 1,4-dioxane, and therefore with carcinogens. The EWG rates ethoxylated ingredients C at best, for medium concern and some potential for hazards to health and/or the environment.

If you want to avoid these carcinogens, keep away from ethoxylated ingredients. They include:

Alcohol ethoxylates, also listed as ethoxylated alcohol, alcohol ethoxysulfates, fatty alcohol ethoxylate, linear alcohol ethoxylate, alcohol alkoxylate, fatty alcohol alkoxylate (usually recognizable by the -eth ending):
C12-14 Pareth-11
Ceteareth
Deceth-6
Laureth-7
Ppg-10-laureth-7
Sodium Laureth Sulfate (SLES)
Trideceth-4
Poloxamers, such as Poloxamer 181 (polyoxyethlyene, polyoxypropylene block polymers)

POLYACRYLIC ACID
Polyacrylic acid polymers or salts (for example, sodium polyacrylate) are often used in dishwasher packs or powders as anti-spotting agents thanks to their water-absorbing properties. Polyacrylic acid itself is not deemed dangerous to humans.

However, polyacrylic acid can be contaminated with acrylic acid, which is caustic and associated with severe skin burns and eye damage, and acrylamide. Acrylamide is highly toxic, likely to be a human carcinogen and a known respiratory and skin irritant.

SODIUM METASILICATE
Sodium metasilicate can be found in many laundry detergents and dishwasher packs and powders. It is used as a water softener and can greatly enhance the performance of cleaning products.

But sodium metasilicate is rated F by the EWG. It is extremely caustic, which means it can cause severe skin burns, eye damage and respiratory irritation. If you are looking for safe dishwasher detergents, avoid products with sodium metasilicate - sodium silicate is much safer, and just as effective!

FRAGRANCE
In Canada and the US, manufacturers of cleaning products don’t have to disclose a full list of ingredients. Scents are usually just listed as “fragrance” or “parfum”, because their exact formula and ingredients are considered trade secrets.

However, fragrances can be comprised of 200 separate chemicals, many of which are skin or respiratory irritants, endocrine or hormone disruptors, known or suspected carcinogens or harmful to the environment. There are many reasons why you should avoid artificial fragrances in cleaning products, including dishwasher detergents! AspenClean's dishwasher detergent is unscented. Here is a full list of unscented cleaning products.

NON-SPECIFIC INGREDIENTS
Since manufacturers in North America don’t have to disclose a full list of ingredients, they can list “non-specific ingredients” - giving a general term without disclosing the exact chemical used. This means that you don’t know what is in the product!

This is especially troublesome if you are allergic to certain ingredients. But even if you are not allergic, you might want to avoid some ingredients you know are bad for you, such as sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) and sodium laureth sulfate (SLES). But did you know that they (and other ethoxylated ingredients) are non-ionic surfactants?

So if your dishwasher pack or powder lists non-specific ingredients like the following, look for other options that disclose the exact ingredients:

Enzymes
Fragrance
Non-ionic Surfactant
Organic Acid Salts
Oxygen-Based Bleaching Agent (aka oxygen bleach)
Polycarboxylate

 

[Logan-]

When I was in college I never used soap on my dishes, I'd just rinse them under hot water right after eating and then use them again later, and maybe handwash with soap once a week or so
I also never washed my hands after touching raw meat

nothing happened

Interesting.

 

[sunny]

I've been messing around trying to make a detergent. Using just washing soda leaves a residue for me...very alkaline.

So I tried this today and it seemed to work:
Vinegar and a small amount of citric acid tossed into the bottom of the dishwasher.
A little Washing Soda and non poison fatty acid dish soap into the detergent compartment.
Vinegar for inside the rinse aid compartment.

I figure any citric acid will get washed away since it is just tossed inside the dishwasher as a prewash.

I like to run the hotwater at the sink before starting the dishwasher since my hot water tank is far away. Then i'll be starting hot.
I've never found a DIY recipe that didn't leave a residue. If anyone has a home made concoction that is legit please share. they usually all suck and the one I came up with might suck too. At least it's better than all alkaline style...I think.

There's probably something bad about using a strong acid, stripping microscopic metal off stuff and spraying it around everywhere. who knows, everything sucks except hand washing and I suck too much to handwash.

How has this method been working for you? Have you modified it any?

 

[lvysaur]

Interesting.

Yea, I did it for a whole year straight

people mostly derive their opinions not from logic and reality, but from mirroring what they see other people do

 

[A-Tim]

Yea, I did it for a whole year straight

people mostly derive their opinions not from logic and reality, but from mirroring what they see other people do

I also washed my dishes with just water for about 10 years. No problems. For very greasy dishes I would use detergent.

 

[:M :B.]

How has this method been working for you? Have you modified it any?

Everything sucks as far as using alkaline powders. Just leaves residue on everything over time.

I switched to using a teaspoon of this soap: Amazon product ASIN B09VSNYWMZView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09VSNYWMZ/ref=ewc_pr_img_6?smid=A2CXBUEEVXUZ9R&psc=1


Works good enough.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have not figured this part out. I find commercial dishwashing materials work very well and I’m not inhaling the gases near the dishwasher.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

…”forgetting to clean your dishwasher on a regular basis can mean that your dishwasher doesn’t clean your dishes as well as it could,” Challenger says. “I’d say it’s a simple 10-minute task that should be done approximately every four weeks if used regularly!” In the following guide from AD, learn how to clean a dishwasher with white vinegar, baking soda, and dish soap. Not only will your machine look brand-new, but it will also run more efficiently than ever.”

‘“There are little holes [in the spray arms] that can get food debris trapped in them and then water cannot get to your dishes,”’

“First, fill a dishwasher-safe bowl with one cup of white vinegar and place it on the bottom of the empty dishwasher. Set the dishwasher to run on a hot water cycle. The vinegar will break down any remaining bits of food, grease, soap scum, residue, and any other leftover grime. This cleaning cycle will help do a thorough deep clean of your washer.

When the first cycle ends, remove the bowl and sprinkle one cup of baking soda along the bottom of the dishwasher. Run it on a short cycle. The baking soda will remove stains and freshen the dishwasher. The result? A bright, sparkling dishwasher that smells oh-so-clean.”

How to Clean a Dishwasher (Quickly!)

This step-by-step guide is your ultimate resource for deep cleaning your dishwasher

www.architecturaldigest.com

 

[sunny]

I have had success following the article below for washing soda and citric acid in the dishwasher.
The trick is to have them in different parts of the cycle, so they do not neutralize each other.

Washing soda- 2 tablespoons- put in the pre rinse compartment (I put some also just in the dishwasher).
Citric acid -1 tablespoon- put in the main detergent compartment which pops open later in cycle.
Putting them in different compartments ensures that the citric acid rinse aid does not interfere with cleaning power of the washing soda.

How To Make Homemade Dishwasher Detergent That Actually Works

If you’ve tried making homemade dishwasher detergent and been disappointed with the results, chances are you were closer to a great recipe than you thought!

mommypotamus.com

 

[InChristAlone]

Guys, the no name brand of dishwasher powder at Walmart does a great job. No bad ingredients. Just be sure to put some on the door and in the main cup and it can get off stuck on cheese and everything.