A Good B-complex

[SaltiestSardine]

I don't know how cost prohibitive it would be after Brexit, but Metabolics in the UK do a really good and effective B-Complex liquid with all the active forms

Something to look into if the shipping is not too ridiculous

 

[reality]

Thanks for your input. Have you taken these for long? Why do you take so much B1? Just curious.

I’ve used their b complex for a lng time maybe years on/off.

I add b1 because its absorption is limited and the mega doses allow passive transport. B1 works very well for me in high doses more so than any other B and I’ve tried them all separately

Mega-Dose Thiamine: Beyond Addressing “Deficiency”

Throughout the past few years, I have been prescribing thiamine more and more often for individuals with a range of different health conditions. I have witnessed major symptomatic improvement in some people who displayed none of the key risk factors for thiamine deficiency, and many times had...

www.eonutrition.co.uk

 

[MayaPapaya]

Why some sources advise to take B-group without B12 and Folate: e.g. Seeking Health and Forefront Health?

 

[Kray]

I’ve used their b complex for a lng time maybe years on/off.

I add b1 because its absorption is limited and the mega doses allow passive transport. B1 works very well for me in high doses more so than any other B and I’ve tried them all separately

Mega-Dose Thiamine: Beyond Addressing “Deficiency”

Throughout the past few years, I have been prescribing thiamine more and more often for individuals with a range of different health conditions. I have witnessed major symptomatic improvement in some people who displayed none of the key risk factors for thiamine deficiency, and many times had...

www.eonutrition.co.uk

Thanks for your feedback. Curious-- what symptoms has it helped you with?

i think i have done it, I have found the perfect b supplement and have to tell everyone about it

Vitamin B Compound Strong BP [28 x 6 packs] - Vitamin B1, B2, B3 & B6 | eBay

20mg Nicotinamide,
2mg Pyridoxine Hyrochloride,
2mg Riboflavine,
4.85mg Thiamine Mononitrate

it's low dose - check
non methylated - check
no b9/b12/paba/choline or inositol - check
low dose b2 and b6 - check


Ingredients: Sodium benzoate (E211), Sorbic acid (E200).

johnwester130-- Just checking in for an update. Are you still using this B complex? Is there a US distributor for this product, or do you go through the vendor on the link you provided? Thanks-

 

[Kray]

I’ve used their b complex for a lng time maybe years on/off.

I add b1 because its absorption is limited and the mega doses allow passive transport. B1 works very well for me in high doses more so than any other B and I’ve tried them all separately

Mega-Dose Thiamine: Beyond Addressing “Deficiency”

Throughout the past few years, I have been prescribing thiamine more and more often for individuals with a range of different health conditions. I have witnessed major symptomatic improvement in some people who displayed none of the key risk factors for thiamine deficiency, and many times had...

www.eonutrition.co.uk

Hi- revisiting this thread. Not sure if you had seen my post to you back on 1/20/23. Can you update? Are you still taking B complex, if so, which? Extra B1 too? Thank you :)

 

[mosaic01]

In light of the low-toxin lifestyle, a good b-complex is hard to find. It should not contain any B6. The methylated forms of the b-vitamins are also problematic, afaik.

One has to buy separate b-vitamins:

- Thiamine as hydrochloride
- Riboflavin
- Nicotinic acid
- Calcium Pantothenate
- Biotin
- Folate as folinic acid
- B12 as hydroxocobalamin or adenosylcobalamin

I don't think B5 is a good idea to take, it boosts cortisol in higher amounts and is literally in every food (that's why it is called "pantothene", meaning "everywhere").

The question here is why take those vitamins? For physiological replacement only small amounts are needed, but almost all supplements contain pharmaceutical amounts. Taking the RDA of the b-vitamins can't hurt, but is there even a product that merely has the RDA anymore?

People take these b-complexes as if their life depends on it, but they are just poisoning themselves. I saw a friend of mine with a sky-high B6 level due to supplementing. This is not good. These chemicals are not meant to be in our bodies in supraphysiological doses.

B1 has a place to support energy production and nervous system health while healing, and B3 has great effects as well, but the b-vitamins should probably be treated as a medication.

Obviously the b-vitamins can control a lot of symptoms, but we don't know the price of suppressing those symptoms by manipulating biochemical pathways.

The best example of using b-vitamins unresponsibly comes from this doc (forget her name), she used high dose vitamin D and added b-complex to control the side-effects but in the end she's just playing with fire and destroying people's health.

Using any chemical to control symptoms is very risky. Humans did not know isolated chemicals until 100 years ago. So this should be the context where to use them, being careful and not taking things just because it sounds great.

Imho, niacin is the least problematic of all b-vitamins. Even B1 can create massive problems with potassium and other deficiencies.

In our culture, there's a lack of respect towards the chemicals we call supplements. Treating them respectfully means only taking them for clear indications and only for a short time-frame, as much as needed. The idea of "supplement stacks" is part of the problem of people being poisoned and controlling their toxicity symptoms.

 

[Kray]

In light of the low-toxin lifestyle, a good b-complex is hard to find. It should not contain any B6. The methylated forms of the b-vitamins are also problematic, afaik.

One has to buy separate b-vitamins:

- Thiamine as hydrochloride
- Riboflavin
- Nicotinic acid
- Calcium Pantothenate
- Biotin
- Folate as folinic acid
- B12 as hydroxocobalamin or adenosylcobalamin

I don't think B5 is a good idea to take, it boosts cortisol in higher amounts and is literally in every food (that's why it is called "pantothene", meaning "everywhere").

The question here is why take those vitamins? For physiological replacement only small amounts are needed, but almost all supplements contain pharmaceutical amounts. Taking the RDA of the b-vitamins can't hurt, but is there even a product that merely has the RDA anymore?

People take these b-complexes as if their life depends on it, but they are just poisoning themselves. I saw a friend of mine with a sky-high B6 level due to supplementing. This is not good. These chemicals are not meant to be in our bodies in supraphysiological doses.

B1 has a place to support energy production and nervous system health while healing, and B3 has great effects as well, but the b-vitamins should probably be treated as a medication.

Obviously the b-vitamins can control a lot of symptoms, but we don't know the price of suppressing those symptoms by manipulating biochemical pathways.

The best example of using b-vitamins unresponsibly comes from this doc (forget her name), she used high dose vitamin D and added b-complex to control the side-effects but in the end she's just playing with fire and destroying people's health.

Using any chemical to control symptoms is very risky. Humans did not know isolated chemicals until 100 years ago. So this should be the context where to use them, being careful and not taking things just because it sounds great.

Imho, niacin is the least problematic of all b-vitamins. Even B1 can create massive problems with potassium and other deficiencies.

In our culture, there's a lack of respect towards the chemicals we call supplements. Treating them respectfully means only taking them for clear indications and only for a short time-frame, as much as needed. The idea of "supplement stacks" is part of the problem of people being poisoned and controlling their toxicity symptoms.

Very interesting post. It seems like you've done a lot of homework. Can you link any studies or references? Do you have a medical/health background, or are you sharing this as your personal experience?

 

[Bozidar]

In light of the low-toxin lifestyle, a good b-complex is hard to find. It should not contain any B6. The methylated forms of the b-vitamins are also problematic, afaik.

One has to buy separate b-vitamins:

- Thiamine as hydrochloride
- Riboflavin
- Nicotinic acid
- Calcium Pantothenate
- Biotin
- Folate as folinic acid
- B12 as hydroxocobalamin or adenosylcobalamin

I don't think B5 is a good idea to take, it boosts cortisol in higher amounts and is literally in every food (that's why it is called "pantothene", meaning "everywhere").

The question here is why take those vitamins? For physiological replacement only small amounts are needed, but almost all supplements contain pharmaceutical amounts. Taking the RDA of the b-vitamins can't hurt, but is there even a product that merely has the RDA anymore?

People take these b-complexes as if their life depends on it, but they are just poisoning themselves. I saw a friend of mine with a sky-high B6 level due to supplementing. This is not good. These chemicals are not meant to be in our bodies in supraphysiological doses.

B1 has a place to support energy production and nervous system health while healing, and B3 has great effects as well, but the b-vitamins should probably be treated as a medication.

Obviously the b-vitamins can control a lot of symptoms, but we don't know the price of suppressing those symptoms by manipulating biochemical pathways.

The best example of using b-vitamins unresponsibly comes from this doc (forget her name), she used high dose vitamin D and added b-complex to control the side-effects but in the end she's just playing with fire and destroying people's health.

Using any chemical to control symptoms is very risky. Humans did not know isolated chemicals until 100 years ago. So this should be the context where to use them, being careful and not taking things just because it sounds great.

Imho, niacin is the least problematic of all b-vitamins. Even B1 can create massive problems with potassium and other deficiencies.

In our culture, there's a lack of respect towards the chemicals we call supplements. Treating them respectfully means only taking them for clear indications and only for a short time-frame, as much as needed. The idea of "supplement stacks" is part of the problem of people being poisoned and controlling their toxicity symptoms.

What if he has mthfr mutations like me, 75% reduction in efficiency of the enzyme.
Methylfolate and methyl b12 still bad?
I find it helps me with stability of my mood.

And what about people who have low cortisol?
Like me, "adrenal burnout".
I find b5 super helpful.
Especially before sleep. I wake up more refreshed.

I find it annoying, this general talk.
It can vary great from person to person, what they need.
People constantly try to standardize something.
Applied to people is not very useful.
I suppose its a part of this materialistic worldview.
I wrote about it in my geo centric vs heliocentric thread.

 

[mosaic01]

Do you have a medical/health background, or are you sharing this as your personal experience?

I don't have a medical background.

@Bozidar

Methylated b-vitamins are not an issue for most, but in sensitive people it can cause problems because it's already the activated form of the vitamin.

MTHFR is just riboflavin deficiency.

If you find pantothenic acid helpful, try pantethine, it's even more effective. But you are using it drug-like, not vitamin-like.

That's my point - the term vitamin makes people believe when they take 500mg pantethine or something similar, that they experience a vitamin-effect. Actually they simple are taking a drug and experiencing the benefits of a drug. That's why it's rare to see someone say "I took b-complex for 3 days, my deficiencies went away and since then I'm healthy", rather people add a b-vitamin to their stack and once they stop it, they go back to baseline.

Most of those symptoms are just toxicity symptoms, or from a bad diet, and the root cause should not be ignored.

The entire context of supplements has moved away from punctually treating legit issues to just masking chronic inflammation.

The only legit "b-complex" would be a supplement that only contains around 20-30% of the RDA - supplementing the diet. In the 70s and 80s, the supplement industry started with low doses, but over time it moved to stronger and stronger formulations to reach the same effect.

 

[Bozidar]

MTHFR is just riboflavin deficiency.

Come on, I have done stratogene report. I have all those mutations regarding mthfr and pemt.
I suppose I could use B2 to compensate for inefficiency of those gene instead of supplementing directly with methylfolate...

If you find pantothenic acid helpful, try pantethine, it's even more effective. But you are using it drug-like, not vitamin-like

Yes, its on my way, should be here in a couple of days
But how to recover then from those chronic issues?
Low doses of 20 30% rda are not gonna do it...
I am starting to think its very misleading to search for standards without considering individual cases
I am sorry if it offends you or anybody but its very materialist-like...

 

[mosaic01]

Come on, I have done stratogene report. I have all those mutations regarding mthfr and pemt.

These genes just show variations in the ability to detoxify and deal with environmental stressors. I have them also. So certain substances that deal with detoxification are faster depleted.

Basically in a toxic world, certain people will break down easier than other people because certain biochemical pathways are less optimized for certain detoxification functions. So the fact that these limitations show up has nothing to do with the genes, but all to do with the environment no longer supporting body functions.

People with those mutations are like the canary in the coal mine. Chasing mutations and treatments to compensate is like trying to breath faster while staying in a coal mine that's slowly filling with toxic gases.

In another analogy, pushing methylation forcefully is like pouring gasoline on the fire. The body downregulates these systems for a reason. A whole-foods diet rich in b-vitamins and choline (sprouts, meat, mushrooms, beans), should compensate for any mutations.

These mutations show up because people eat garbage that puts an extra stress on the methylation systems when coupled with an onslaught of toxins. If you eat well, the mutations do not matter. They just increase the requirement of certain substances, mostly things you can find in meat (b-vitamins, creatine, choline). It's just an industry that is trying to sell you something (gene tests, supplements, etc.)

In our world, every solution is turned into a product, but that limits the possible answers to a problem. Or as Ray Peat said: The very concept of "marketing" is at odds with the real nature of these materials, which has to do with the protection and expansion of our nature and potential. A distorted idea of human nature is sold when people are treated as "the market."

But how to recover then from those chronic issues?

Well, that's a complex topic, but generally it's necessary to acknowledge that taking vitamins to control symptoms is just on the same level as taking any other drug.

Limiting retinol, copper, other heavy metals, stopping drugs like coffee, spices, etc., drinking distilled water, mitigating EMF etc. etc. over time reduces the burden on the detox systems. Also infrared saunas, CO2 baths, ozone treatments.

Niacin actually boosts detox and thus is helpful together with some liver support. B1 also helps with detox of certain metals.

One needs to have a baseline without any supplements and intake of toxins. Then the body will initiate a detox-process and that will lead to a baseline. Then one can experiment carefull with certain foods or supplements, and see how the detox process is affected by it (judging via symptoms, stool color, etc.)

Yes, its on my way, should be here in a couple of days

I took Jarrow Pantethine for a long time, it's the best formula I found. 2 capsules replaced 2.5-5mg hydrocortisone.

 

[Bozidar]

@Kray What are you trying to achieve with taking b complex? What kind of issue are you dealing with?
That is the proper question.