Oxidal - Liquid Redox Modulator

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haidut

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tara said:
I don't claim any expertise about DMSO. My understanding of DMSO is that it makes it much easier for all sorts of substances to get absorbed through the skin and into tissues, whether those substances are supportive or toxic. That's where my safety concerns come from.

This is what I wrote in Jennifer's thread a while ago:

tara said:
My understanding from bits and pieces of web sufing is that DMSO makes it easier for all sorts of things to move around in the body. Sometimes this is great for healing. Sometimes it's great for reducing the amount of a drug needed to have a desired effect, while lowering the downsides. There are circumstances where it's not great - eg it's extra important to avoid any toxic substances while using it, including on the skin. I would consider it reasonable to use for recovering an injury, while being careful about exposures to negative substances. I'm not sure about safety long term. It's closely related chemically and in effects to MSM.

tara said:
Jennifer said:
I was just looking at the uses for DMSO and the first thing I thought of was my grandmother. She's been having a lot pain in her right shoulder and she can't remember if she did something to it or if it's possibly arthritis. She refuses to go to the doctor to get it checked out and has opted to put icy hot on it instead. I'm wondering if DMSO would be good for her to try. My only concern is when you say "there are circumstances where it's not great - eg it's extra important to avoid any toxic substances while using it." Exactly what kind of toxic substances? Like foods, beauty products and/or prescription meds?

I'm afraid I don't really know, but my impression was yes, cosmetics with dodgy ingredients - ie anything you wouldn't want to eat, because it will get through the skin more easily. Not sure if that only applies in or near the area of topical applcation, or systemically beyond that. Also, it may affect some medicines, possibly by making them more effective - ie less needed because the delivery into target tissues can be easier. But i wouldn't have a clue how to work out the details to keep it safe if there are important medications involved. It might be really helpful with only minor downsides, but I wouldn't be sure.

It might be a great medium for someone living and working in a clean environment and not exposed to drugs or herbs or toxic skin and hair care products etc that could cause problems. But I don't think all the people who could benefit from progest-e could be confident about that.
Do you think my concerns are excessive?

I think these are legit concerns for someone working in a polluted environment like hospital, plants, construction, etc and mostly if the product is used topically. When used orally, I think most of these concerns are much lower risk and also the amount of DMSO in a single dose would be in the milligrams range so it should lower the risk even more. Most people that use DMSO use it in grams doses and I can see how it become a concern in helping absorb toxins.
 

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haidut said:
Charlie said:
That said, would be awesome if haidut could get the formula from Ray and start making authentic progest-e again. You probably would have to double your team. :lol:

Good to know, thanks!
Actually, I am about to release a progesterone product but haven't finalized the solvents yet. One option is a mixture of DMSO and ethanol. The absorption is excellent topically and very good orally. I can add some vitamin E, which will improve the oral absorption and bioavailability but it probably won't be in the amounts Progest-E contains. There are actually many products on the market that use tocopherols as solvents and most studies show optimal absorption from using tocopherol in concentrations 0.001% - 0.05% by weight. If I add tocopherols it will probably be no more than 0.05% since the liquid will be fairly transparent and can be applied anywhere without fear of staining or being sticky. I think this is one drawback of Progest-E (just like my Energin) - it does cause staining and the spot remains sticky for several hours so it can't come in contact with clothes.
exciting-news.jpg
 

tara

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haidut said:
I think these are legit concerns for someone working in a polluted environment like hospital, plants, construction, etc and mostly if the product is used topically. When used orally, I think most of these concerns are much lower risk and also the amount of DMSO in a single dose would be in the milligrams range so it should lower the risk even more. Most people that use DMSO use it in grams doses and I can see how it become a concern in helping absorb toxins.
Probably also relevant if taking other medications that may have their effects increased, right? May it needs a warning about the DMSO potential to interact with drugs and other bioactive substances?

I think a lot of people live in environments where they have no idea of the pollutants they are exposed to. I've had the experience of learning that my lovely home grown spray-free veges and eggs may have some not-so-lovely constituents from historic land use.
 
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tara said:
haidut said:
I think these are legit concerns for someone working in a polluted environment like hospital, plants, construction, etc and mostly if the product is used topically. When used orally, I think most of these concerns are much lower risk and also the amount of DMSO in a single dose would be in the milligrams range so it should lower the risk even more. Most people that use DMSO use it in grams doses and I can see how it become a concern in helping absorb toxins.
Probably also relevant if taking other medications that may have their effects increased, right? May it needs a warning about the DMSO potential to interact with drugs and other bioactive substances?

I think a lot of people live in environments where they have no idea of the pollutants they are exposed to. I've had the experience of learning that my lovely home grown spray-free veges and eggs may have some not-so-lovely constituents from historic land use.

Yes, it would affect medication if taken orally at the same time. I think topical application would be much safer. In fact, DMSO on its own has some interesting properties that I will post about today in separate threads.
 

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tara said:
4peatssake said:
tara said:
gummybear said:
How do you know that peat sets the price of the progest e? Or that he is involved in any way in the production?
I'm fairly sure Peat has no financial interest in proget-e. He further distanced himself from the product in an interview after they changed the recipe from the one he recommended.
Can you tell me what interview it was tara?
I'd heard this before that Peat had distanced himself and the forumla was changed and I've also heard this wasn't true. Like you, I don't think he's involved directly but I just haven't seen it direct that he distanced himself. So if you can point to the interview this is in, I'd most appreciate it. :hattip

I can't remember which one, I'm afraid. I think it was one of the earlier ones I listened too or rea, and I have no system for recalling them. I'm reasonably confident that he said they changed formula to make it cheaper, but that makes it a little less effective. His patent is for 10% progesterone dissolved in vit-E. The current Kenogen Progest-e also has other oil in it, according to the bottle. I think it may be the same same amount of progest-e, but a bit less vit-E, but I'm not sure about that.
If I come across it again, I'll try to remember to post a link.
Found it, and it goes way back to at least '94. :(
I came across this letter to the Editor in my files just now when I was looking up some info on dosing Progest E for someone. File attached.
haidut, are you in consultation with Peat by any chance about making an oral progesterone supp?
 

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4peatssake said:
tara said:
4peatssake said:
tara said:
gummybear said:
How do you know that peat sets the price of the progest e? Or that he is involved in any way in the production?
I'm fairly sure Peat has no financial interest in proget-e. He further distanced himself from the product in an interview after they changed the recipe from the one he recommended.
Can you tell me what interview it was tara?
I'd heard this before that Peat had distanced himself and the forumla was changed and I've also heard this wasn't true. Like you, I don't think he's involved directly but I just haven't seen it direct that he distanced himself. So if you can point to the interview this is in, I'd most appreciate it. :hattip

I can't remember which one, I'm afraid. I think it was one of the earlier ones I listened too or rea, and I have no system for recalling them. I'm reasonably confident that he said they changed formula to make it cheaper, but that makes it a little less effective. His patent is for 10% progesterone dissolved in vit-E. The current Kenogen Progest-e also has other oil in it, according to the bottle. I think it may be the same same amount of progest-e, but a bit less vit-E, but I'm not sure about that.
If I come across it again, I'll try to remember to post a link.
Found it, and it goes way back to at least '94. :(
I came across this letter to the Editor in my files just now when I was looking up some info on dosing Progest E for someone. File attached.
haidut, are you in consultation with Peat by any chance about making an oral progesterone supp?

I correspond sometimes with Peat but not on topics of progesterone supplement. However, I do conduct my own experiments and based on blood tests I can attest that progesterone in solution of DMSO and ethanol absorbs at least 5 times better than other products I have tried. So, a 20mg dose of my supplement would be equivalent to 100mg+ dose of various other topical progesterone products on the market. As far as oral supplements, 20mg of my supplement achieves the same blood concentrations as an oral dose of 200mg Prometrium.
Consequently, I am changing the StressNon supplement as well to be based on DMSO and ethanol. When the progesterone supplement is ready I will make an announcement in a separate thread.
 

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haidut said:
I correspond sometimes with Peat but not on topics of progesterone supplement. However, I do conduct my own experiments and based on blood tests I can attest that progesterone in solution of DMSO and ethanol absorbs at least 5 times better than other products I have tried. So, a 20mg dose of my supplement would be equivalent to 100mg+ dose of various other topical progesterone products on the market. As far as oral supplements, 20mg of my supplement achieves the same blood concentrations as an oral dose of 200mg Prometrium.
Consequently, I am changing the StressNon supplement as well to be based on DMSO and ethanol. When the progesterone supplement is ready I will make an announcement in a separate thread.
Thank you for the further information.
I have used DMSO with great success (on its own diluted to 50% strength) for knee pain and personally consider it safe for my own use so I am looking forward to the improved absorption in your supps.
 
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4peatssake said:
haidut said:
I correspond sometimes with Peat but not on topics of progesterone supplement. However, I do conduct my own experiments and based on blood tests I can attest that progesterone in solution of DMSO and ethanol absorbs at least 5 times better than other products I have tried. So, a 20mg dose of my supplement would be equivalent to 100mg+ dose of various other topical progesterone products on the market. As far as oral supplements, 20mg of my supplement achieves the same blood concentrations as an oral dose of 200mg Prometrium.
Consequently, I am changing the StressNon supplement as well to be based on DMSO and ethanol. When the progesterone supplement is ready I will make an announcement in a separate thread.
Thank you for the further information.
I have used DMSO with great success (on its own diluted to 50% strength) for knee pain and personally consider it safe for my own use so I am looking forward to the improved absorption in your supps.

Yeah, and since each dose would be just a few drops I do not expect the typical issues with DMSO such as enabling more poison to enter to be much of a concern. Also, the ethanol portion should kill whatever pathogens may be on the skin so that they do not enter with the DMSO.
 
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Nicholas said:
can oxidal be taken orally?

Yes, even though officially we can't endorse such method of administration.
 
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So i finally got my energin and oxidal the other day. Felt i needed something still because i dont think ive been utilizing all the sugar i eat effectively. Im overweight with estrogenic proportions, frequently depressed and have low energy in general. Plus i work in a stressful environment for 10-12 hrs five days a week. Since i started this job a month ago, throwing heavy boxes on a refrigerated dock under fluorescent lights has taken a toll. Well i started the energin yesterday with split doses and felt a subtle increase in energy. I also tried a drop of MB topically but didnt notice anything drastic. But today i decided to try it orally. I took a drop this morning along with three of my friends and noticed a slight energy improvement. It was the second drop that really did some work around lunch time. Within minutes i started feeling warm and awake. My partner who is seemingly healthy took two drops and noticed warmth and strong motivation shortly after as well. About an hour later my head started to feel uncomfortably warm and i had to drive my pallet jack in the -10 degree freezer for a few passes to cool down. I felt fine after 30 minutes or so. I dont think im taking anymore today but what is really amazing is that this is the first time I've gotten off work and felt zero fatigue. Awesome.
 

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[ref]InterrogaOmnia[/ref], :D
 
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InterrogaOmnia said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97269/ So i finally got my energin and oxidal the other day. Felt i needed something still because i dont think ive been utilizing all the sugar i eat effectively. Im overweight with estrogenic proportions, frequently depressed and have low energy in general. Plus i work in a stressful environment for 10-12 hrs five days a week. Since i started this job a month ago, throwing heavy boxes on a refrigerated dock under fluorescent lights has taken a toll. Well i started the energin yesterday with split doses and felt a subtle increase in energy. I also tried a drop of MB topically but didnt notice anything drastic. But today i decided to try it orally. I took a drop this morning along with three of my friends and noticed a slight energy improvement. It was the second drop that really did some work around lunch time. Within minutes i started feeling warm and awake. My partner who is seemingly healthy took two drops and noticed warmth and strong motivation shortly after as well. About an hour later my head started to feel uncomfortably warm and i had to drive my pallet jack in the -10 degree freezer for a few passes to cool down. I felt fine after 30 minutes or so. I dont think im taking anymore today but what is really amazing is that this is the first time I've gotten off work and felt zero fatigue. Awesome.

Excellent! Btw, Oxidal contains both caffeine and benzoic acid, and these in combination with methylene blue can cause uncoupling even in low doses. Hence the sensation of heat to the point of being uncomfortable.
 
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haidut said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97272/
Excellent! Btw, Oxidal contains both caffeine and benzoic acid, and these in combination with methylene blue can cause uncoupling even in low doses. Hence the sensation of heat to the point of being uncomfortable.

I do wear an insulated freezer bib but if i get consistently warm i might have to drop some layers. I was outside for a few minutes getting some sun before i overheated.
 
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narouz

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haidut said:
Excellent! Btw, Oxidal contains both caffeine and benzoic acid, and these in combination with methylene blue can cause uncoupling even in low doses. Hence the sensation of heat to the point of being uncomfortable.

Peata, you metabolic heat fiend...are you listenin'!? :lol:
 

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On longecity they use methylene blue for hair loss

Are the effects better when combined with dmso ?
 
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uuy8778yyi said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/98046/ On longecity they use methylene blue for hair loss

Are the effects better when combined with dmso ?

Yeah, MB works like thyroid/caffeine. So, applying Oxidal (as a diluted solution) to scalp should work as well. There is no DMSO in Oxidal, only water and some ethanol. I have not seen anything published on effects of MB for hairloss (or anything else) when combined with DMSO.
 
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