Stoking The Furnace — Magnesium & Bicarbonate For Raising Temperature & Metabolism

natedawggh

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I came across this article online: http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/ ... l-cocktail
Advocating the use of Magnesium Chloride and Sodium Bicarbonate in tandem to restore health. I tried it and in just an hour my fingers, toes, and ears turned bright red and started letting off tons of heat. It was kind of crazy. I tried taking The MC separated from the SB by 20 minutes and also tried taking them together in water where they supposedly have a reaction to Magnesium Bicarbonate. I don't know which works better or if it's any different, but I will continue to experiment with it.

I think Dr. Sircus is pretty spot on with the science, though not necessarily his theory. There are some little deviations from Ray's work but I don't think the why is as important as the what, and that WHAT is a LOT of HEAT.

I don't think it's a good idea to take too much of Sodium Bicarbonate, so don't overdo it. Small amounts. In this case more would not be better. This should probably also not be done with kinds of Magnesium other than Chloride. I have no idea what compounds would result.
 

tara

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How much of each did you use to get an effect?
 
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Excess acid accumulation leads to oxygen deprivation and thus cell fermentation. Acid conditions lead to cell rot, another term for cancer.

Looks like he has it all figured out :lol:
 

Makrosky

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RPDiciple said:
read the article he published, everything is there.

Thanx for posting

Well, of course I can read but since I'm not a biochemist nor a MD and this is an RP forum, I would expect a "Peatish explanation" for the combo. Or more like a "Peatish filter" for the linked article from someone knowledgeable.

Thanx for answering.
 

ghg

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I am new to this forum. I have been a follower of Dr Sircus and high dose magnesium since last Sept.
A DVM, Dr Russell J Beckett, discovered magnesium bicarbonate (spent 30 yrs on it) after noticing sheep and cattle in Monaro Australia lived 30% to 100% longer than normal. It was eventually traced to magnesium bicarbonate in their drinking water. He has done studies, has patents, and pending patents on it. Het setup a company on OZ "uniquewater.com.au" to sell mag bicarbonate drinking water. It is intended for the bottled water market, so it is not very strong.

Dr Sircus, teaches high dose magnesium chloride (mag oil) plus some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to generate SOME (not much in me) magnesium bicarbonate. While this raised my RBC (red blood cell, cellular reserve) magnesium from 4.2 to 5.3 in 7 months, I noticed no energy boost. Some of his patients do 5g to 20g of magnesium as "transdermal" (rubbing it on skin to bypass the gut) per day.. That dose is way above the diarrhea limit if taken orally.

Taking lots of magnesium chloride, will acidify the body (excess chloride ions). Taking lots of sodium bicarbonate causes water retention and hence raises blood pressure in many people, including me. So magnesium bicarbonate is a very good solution as it avoids excessive chlorides, and excessive sodium.

The elusive magnesium bicarbonate cannot exist as a powder, only as a very dilute liquid, at something like 0.5% magnesium. Therefore, it does not work for transdermal application, since it is way too dilute.

IF you don't live in OZ, there is DIY magnesium bicarbonate water called "Waller Water", which is pretty much the same thing as Unique Water (after diluting the "concentrate")

http://www.afibbers.org/Wallerwater.pdf

It is made by putting 3 TBSP of Milk of Magnesia (additive free) into 1 Liter of chilled club soda, and reacts to form 1500mg of magnesium and 7500mg of bicarbonate in that liter. The recipe then states to dilute it 1 part "concentrate" to 11 parts water to make mag bicarb drinking water.

Following, the Dr Sircus teachings, I drink the whole liter (of the concentrate) over the course of the day. This is pretty close to the diarrhea limit though.

On 4/20/15, I discovered that one may supplement with magnesium acetate powder, about 1 TSP AM and 1 TSP PM, which provides 2.2g of magnesium and 11g of acetate (1 mEq of acetate metabolizes into 1 mEq of bicarbonate in the liver). This provides powder high dose magnesium bicarbonate supplementation.

IF one already has sufficient cellular magnesium reserves built up (RBC magnesium > 5.3), then supplementing with 20g/day of magnesium acetate (oral or transdermal), usually produces an instant "fountain of youth" effect. Nearly limitless energy and mental clarity. If one is depleted on magnesium reserves, then no energy boost is noted at first, but picks up in 4-6 weeks as magnesium levels build up. The magnesium (once inside of cells) allows the bicarbonate to enter, performing the magic.

Also, magnesium acetate can be made into a thick liquid and applied to the skin transdermally, or loaded into a "patch" for absorption. The transdermal portion does not contribute to diarrhea.

For more info (link to current summary sheet in my dropbox)
http://tinyurl.com/mag-ace

Also started a forum thread on Life-Extension here:

http://ask.lef.org/15623/

my $0.02
--ghg
 

Giraffe

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...but a significant increase (P < 0.05) was found...
Hi Nick,

I have difficulties with this kind of statement. The phrasing 'there was a xy % increase' is clear. While the phrasing 'significant increase (P < xy)' makes me suspect that the researchers do not know whether the increase was strong or slight or non-existent.

The p-value does not in itself support reasoning about the probabilities of a hypotheses. Studies only using p-values are worthless.

The p-value is only a tool for deciding whether to reject the null hypothesis (= the opposite of the hypothesis). If the null hypothesis can't be rejected the data very likely are insufficient (= not worth to being processed).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value
 

narouz

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ghg said:
I am new to this forum. I have been a follower of Dr Sircus and high dose magnesium since last Sept.
A DVM, Dr Russell J Beckett, discovered magnesium bicarbonate (spent 30 yrs on it) after noticing sheep and cattle in Monaro Australia lived 30% to 100% longer than normal. It was eventually traced to magnesium bicarbonate in their drinking water. He has done studies, has patents, and pending patents on it. Het setup a company on OZ "uniquewater.com.au" to sell mag bicarbonate drinking water. It is intended for the bottled water market, so it is not very strong.

Dr Sircus, teaches high dose magnesium chloride (mag oil) plus some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to generate SOME (not much in me) magnesium bicarbonate. While this raised my RBC (red blood cell, cellular reserve) magnesium from 4.2 to 5.3 in 7 months, I noticed no energy boost. Some of his patients do 5g to 20g of magnesium as "transdermal" (rubbing it on skin to bypass the gut) per day.. That dose is way above the diarrhea limit if taken orally.

Taking lots of magnesium chloride, will acidify the body (excess chloride ions). Taking lots of sodium bicarbonate causes water retention and hence raises blood pressure in many people, including me. So magnesium bicarbonate is a very good solution as it avoids excessive chlorides, and excessive sodium.

The elusive magnesium bicarbonate cannot exist as a powder, only as a very dilute liquid, at something like 0.5% magnesium. Therefore, it does not work for transdermal application, since it is way too dilute.

IF you don't live in OZ, there is DIY magnesium bicarbonate water called "Waller Water", which is pretty much the same thing as Unique Water (after diluting the "concentrate")

http://www.afibbers.org/Wallerwater.pdf

It is made by putting 3 TBSP of Milk of Magnesia (additive free) into 1 Liter of chilled club soda, and reacts to form 1500mg of magnesium and 7500mg of bicarbonate in that liter. The recipe then states to dilute it 1 part "concentrate" to 11 parts water to make mag bicarb drinking water.

Following, the Dr Sircus teachings, I drink the whole liter (of the concentrate) over the course of the day. This is pretty close to the diarrhea limit though.

On 4/20/15, I discovered that one may supplement with magnesium acetate powder, about 1 TSP AM and 1 TSP PM, which provides 2.2g of magnesium and 11g of acetate (1 mEq of acetate metabolizes into 1 mEq of bicarbonate in the liver). This provides powder high dose magnesium bicarbonate supplementation.

IF one already has sufficient cellular magnesium reserves built up (RBC magnesium > 5.3), then supplementing with 20g/day of magnesium acetate (oral or transdermal), usually produces an instant "fountain of youth" effect. Nearly limitless energy and mental clarity. If one is depleted on magnesium reserves, then no energy boost is noted at first, but picks up in 4-6 weeks as magnesium levels build up. The magnesium (once inside of cells) allows the bicarbonate to enter, performing the magic.

Also, magnesium acetate can be made into a thick liquid and applied to the skin transdermally, or loaded into a "patch" for absorption. The transdermal portion does not contribute to diarrhea.

For more info (link to current summary sheet in my dropbox)
http://tinyurl.com/mag-ace

Also started a forum thread on Life-Extension here:

http://ask.lef.org/15623/

my $0.02
--ghg

The magnesium acetate thing is interesting, ghg.
But that would not seem to be part of Sircus' views.
Where did you get onto the acetate form?
 

Brian

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Magnesium deficiency in my experience is 100% tied to thyroid and progesterone deficiency. When progesterone is at a healthy level magnesium is retained extremely well. So logically it makes much more sense to get your body producing more progesterone rather than focusing on tricks to get it to absorb more magnesium. I notice that when my progesterone levels are good any form of magnesium is easily absorbed and retained with effects on increased related enzyme activity being very obvious. (The most obvious one is a ridiculous amount of pre-ejaculate).
 

narouz

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Brian said:
Magnesium deficiency in my experience is 100% tied to thyroid and progesterone deficiency. When progesterone is at a healthy level magnesium is retained extremely well. So logically it makes much more sense to get your body producing more progesterone rather than focusing on tricks to get it to absorb more magnesium. I notice that when my progesterone levels are good any form of magnesium is easily absorbed and retained with effects on increased related enzyme activity being very obvious. (The most obvious one is a ridiculous amount of pre-ejaculate).

How did you raise your progesterone levels, Brian?
 

Brian

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narouz said:
How did you raise your progesterone levels, Brian?

I would say the main factors were increasing thyroid hormone production through a little iodine supplementation (usually 400mcg or less of Kelp extract pills) combined with adequate vitamin A for pregnenolone synthesis. I also think getting rid of my zinc deficiency played an important role (by eating a pound of beef a day for a few months).
 

tara

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Such_Saturation said:
Excess acid accumulation leads to oxygen deprivation and thus cell fermentation. Acid conditions lead to cell rot, another term for cancer.

Looks like he has it all figured out :lol:

As far as I know, this might be a reasonable summary. Excess acid implies deficiency in alkaline buffers/minerals. Excess acid seems to contribute to hyperventilation, which reduces CO2 and oxygen delivery, and therefore promotes fermation of sugars, which Warburg showed was key to cancer growth, and probably other mechanisms. Seems consistent with Peat (and RBTI)?
 

ghg

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narouz said:
ghg said:
I am new to this forum. I have been a follower of Dr Sircus and high dose magnesium since last Sept.
--ghg

The magnesium acetate thing is interesting, ghg.
But that would not seem to be part of Sircus' views.
Where did you get onto the acetate form?

Quoting the first paragraph on page 33 from the book Water Based Medicine The Waters of Life

by Dr Mark Sircus.
"The Holy Grail of Natural Allopathic Medicine​
Magnesium Bicarbonate​
For years I have searched for a product that combines the best of magnesium and
bicarbonate, without the potential side effects of too much chloride and sodium, as is
possible when using sodium bicarbonate and magnesium chloride. I have written about
t h e mysterious and hard to come by magnesium bicarbonate as the Ultimate
Mitochondria Cocktail."

Dr Sircus is aware of potential side effects of too much chloride and sodium as was I. What all of the various magnesium doctors seemed to have missed is the fact that the acetate ion is metabolized into the bicarbonate ion in mammals. I have seen this stated as far back as 1965 in the medical literature on dialysis.
So supplementing with magnesium acetate (a powder) is metabolized into the elusive magnesium bicarbonate in the body, without introducing any sodium or chloride ions. I tried this on 4/20/2015 and boy did it work.
On 4/21/2015, I posted my magnesium acetate discovery on
http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium- ... ne-water-2

. Claudia French acknowledged my reply and said that she forwarded the info to Dr Sircus.

So Dr Sircus knows about it. However a couple of months is still a pretty short time. He no doubt needs to vet this idea, and research it more before talking anything about it.
One can make DIY magnesium acetate from Milk of Magnesia and vinegar, or one can make "Waller Water" which is MoM and Seltzer water also. Details for both in http://ask.lef.org/15623/

Drinking Waller Water is fine.. Some people have a lower magnesium diarrhea limit, and cannot take much oral magnesium in any form. This is where magnesium acetate shines, it can be made into a thick liquid and applied transdermally, bypassing the gut.

You can buy 1 Kg qty here:
http://www.bio-world.com/productinfo/4_ ... drate.html

Also check out:
http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/ ... ndications

There is a wealth of information on the Afibbers web site on WW, Unique Water, Trials, etc

http://www.afibbers.net/forum/read.php? ... msg-128559

To reduce robotic spam, that site requires a password, which is posted in full view for humans on their website. The login is "afibbers" and the password is "2sesame".

Also, another thread on magnesium on afibbers. This one contains sources of magnesium acetate.
http://www.afibbers.net/forum/read.php?9,151073

--ghg
 
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tara said:
Such_Saturation said:
Excess acid accumulation leads to oxygen deprivation and thus cell fermentation. Acid conditions lead to cell rot, another term for cancer.

Looks like he has it all figured out :lol:

As far as I know, this might be a reasonable summary. Excess acid implies deficiency in alkaline buffers/minerals. Excess acid seems to contribute to hyperventilation, which reduces CO2 and oxygen delivery, and therefore promotes fermation of sugars, which Warburg showed was key to cancer growth, and probably other mechanisms. Seems consistent with Peat (and RBTI)?

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/cancer-disorder-energy.shtml said:
Increasing carbon dioxide lowers the intracellular pH, as well as inhibiting lactic acid formation, and restoring the oxidation of glucose increases CO2. Inhibiting carbonic anhydrase, to allow more CO2 to stay in the cell, contributes to intracellular acidification, and by systemically increasing carbon dioxide this inhibition has a broad range of protective anti-excitatory effects. The drug industry is now looking for chemicals that will specifically inhibit the carbonic anhydrase enzymes that are active in tumors. Existing carbonic anhydrase inhibitors, such as acetazolamide, will inhibit those enzymes, without harming other tissues. Aspirin has some effect as an inhibitor of carbonic anhydrase (Bayram, et al., 2008). Since histamine, serotonin (Vullo, et al., 2007), and estrogen (Barnett, et al., 2008; Garg, 1975) are carbonic anhydrase activators, their antagonists would help to acidify the hypoxic cells. Testosterone (Suzuki, et al., 1996) and progesterone are estrogen antagonists that inhibit carbonic anhydrase.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/cancer-disorder-energy.shtml said:
The increased intracellular alkalinity and intracellular calcium that result from the combination of those factors increase the tendency of cells to be overstimulated, leading to aerobic glycolysis, the cancer metabolism. Improving any part of the system tends to increase carbon dioxide and decrease lactate, permitting differentiated functioning.
 

TeslaFan

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Both Calcium and Magnesium are alkaline, but which one enters the cell makes a big difference in cell metabolism. I suspect Ray Peat talks about negative alkalinity in the context of Calcium entering the cell, which lowers cell's energy while stimulating it at the same time, sometimes leading to cell death. Obviously, we want Magnesium in the cell, for ATP, and Calcium outside the cell, to keep PTH low. Sodium and Potassium have similarly differentiated "spacial" roles. I think both Mag and Cal will raise the PH of the cell, but I don't think this is something we have to worry about as long as they are placed properly.

"Magnesium in the cell is largely associated with ATP, as the complex Mg-ATP. When ATP is "used" or converted to ADP, this lower-energy substance associates with calcium, as Ca-ADP. In a hypothyroid state, the energy charge can be depleted by stress, causing cells to lose magnesium. ATP is less stable when it isn't complexed with magnesium, so the stress-induced loss of magnesium makes the cell more susceptible to stress, by acting as a chronic background stimulation, forcing the cell to replace the ATP which is lost because of its instability. In this state, the cell takes up an excess of calcium."
 

haidut

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Brian said:
narouz said:
How did you raise your progesterone levels, Brian?

I would say the main factors were increasing thyroid hormone production through a little iodine supplementation (usually 400mcg or less of Kelp extract pills) combined with adequate vitamin A for pregnenolone synthesis. I also think getting rid of my zinc deficiency played an important role (by eating a pound of beef a day for a few months).

I agree 100%. In my experiments, adding 100mg pregnenolone to an oral dose of 1g magnesium oxide or citrate FULLY prevents loose stools. As many of the forum members know, 1g of oral magnesium in a single setting is quite large and almost always produces diarrhea. Pregnenolone metabolizes almost instantly into progesterone and since it is a lipid it does not need to be taken with any food. For even stronger effect take 100mg pregnenolone with the actual magnesium bicarbonate and watch out for the powerful sedative effect that kicks in within 10min. Both progesterone and magnesium are strong sedatives and since progesterone improves magnesium retention you may even get knocked out for a few hours.
 

Makrosky

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haidut said:
Brian said:
narouz said:
How did you raise your progesterone levels, Brian?

I would say the main factors were increasing thyroid hormone production through a little iodine supplementation (usually 400mcg or less of Kelp extract pills) combined with adequate vitamin A for pregnenolone synthesis. I also think getting rid of my zinc deficiency played an important role (by eating a pound of beef a day for a few months).

I agree 100%. In my experiments, adding 100mg pregnenolone to an oral dose of 1g magnesium oxide or citrate FULLY prevents loose stools. As many of the forum members know, 1g of oral magnesium in a single setting is quite large and almost always produces diarrhea. Pregnenolone metabolizes almost instantly into progesterone and since it is a lipid it does not need to be taken with any food. For even stronger effect take 100mg pregnenolone with the actual magnesium bicarbonate and watch out for the powerful sedative effect that kicks in within 10min. Both progesterone and magnesium are strong sedatives and since progesterone improves magnesium retention you may even get knocked out for a few hours.

Haidut, what are your thoughts about mixing mag. chloride + sodium bicarbonate ?? The OP didn't mention any doses but he said it produces lots of heat so I guess it boosts metabolism and/or uncouple the mithocondria ??? What do you think ?
 

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