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Energy Production, Diabetes, Saturated Fats, KMUD, 2011
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Raymond Peat, Ph.D.
Energy Production, Diabetes, Saturated Fats
KMUD, 2011-11-18
Energy Production, Diabetes, Saturated Fats
KMUD, 2011-11-18
(transcribed by Sweetly, Giraffe, Peater, Burtlancast - verified by Burtlancast, Giraffe)
HD: Andrew Murray
HD2: Sarah Johanneson Murray
RP: Ray Peat
SE: Sound engineer
HD: Can you give us a background of your education, and what you're bringing to this show ?
RP: I've studied lot of different things, but my biological studies was at the University of Oregon. I've spent four years there, working on a PhD, starting out thinking I was going to do nerve biology and brain biology, and the people in that section were so dogmatic. I've looked around and found that the reproductive physiology and aging people were actually scientifically oriented. So I shifted over in my dissertation on the hormones and physiology and energy metabolism of aging and reproductive systems.
HD: I know you're very interested in maintaining a good thyroid function, which is a key cornerstone to maintaining biological energy production. And that's so important in fighting the negative effects of materials in our environment that would lower our metabolic energy. The main one would be polyunsaturated fats, potentially implicated in diabetes, triglycerides, and general lipid health ?
RP: Yah. The people who created the idea of the essential fatty acids, actually a few years later did an experiment with one of their lab people, that I think really showed all of the important features of why people should not eat the essential so-called fatty acids. In 1929, when the Burrs published their claim that the polyunsaturated fats linoleic acid and linolenic acid are those that are essential for life; other biologists had shown that animals were healthier when they had no fat in their diet, had almost no cancer spontaneously developing. But the Burrs simply ignored the evidence that the fats were harmful. And other biologists ignored them pretty much for about twenty years, because the evidence was so overwhelmingly against their claims. In their faith that those fats were essential, one of their lab people agreed to go on a fat free diet for six months. And his health remarkably improved. His blood lipids changed somewhat; the cholesterol went down a little, and the triglycerides went up a little. But the total lipids quantity stayed about the same. But he didn't get tired after a day's work, as he always had. And his lifelong weekly migraines headaches disappeared forever.
So, nothing really was assuring the support of their position until the seed oil industry wanted to market their liquid seed oils; cotton seed oil, linseed oil, soybean oil and so on. And they brought the Burrs out of obscurity, and since they have proven that the fatty acids linoleic acid and linolenic acid are essential for life, 'We'll get the public to eat them in huge quantities, and treat them as drugs, rather than as simply trace nutrient,' that according to their somewhat unconvincing research as trace nutrients, they were supposedly doing something to make the skin healthier. But the counter-evidence had included such things as many animal diseases; that degenerative brain diseases, atrophy of the gonads, and infertility, and so on, were connected with eating too much of the unsaturated fats. And vitamin E was found to protect against that. So, it was all marketing campaign to sell the idea that not only are those fats essential, but they're good for you, and like a drug they will prevent heart disease. But very soon, people started producing evidence showing that in fact linoleic acid not only causes heart disease, but promotes cancer, immune problems, all kinds of things similar to what they had seen in the animals.
HD: All of these PUFAs then, the fish oils, the hemp seed oil, canola etc… so these are all the liquid oils, as you are referring to, that are so common in the food chain now.
RP: Yah. And in the 1950s, they were feeding a lot of fish to mink, in the mink farms. And they were producing what was called the yellow fat disease, which apparently was related to the age pigment lipofuscin, which is the brown pigment that develops from the breakdown of the polyunsaturated fats. So the fish oils were, right along with the seed oils, for seeming to be toxic in the 50s and 60s. But by the 1970s, linoleic acid was being recognized as a major cause of heart disease and cancer.
So, they had sold the public on the idea of essential fatty acids, and they just changed the story and said: 'Well, fish oils or linseed oil are a different kind of fat, they aren't the omega-6 oils like the deadly linoleic acid, they are the omega-3.' But those had already themselves been incriminated with the yellow fat and lipofuscin diseases.
HD: OK. So they just switched tactics to the omega-3s and tried to sell those?
RP: Yah, and that's where we are now with the fish oil craze.
HD: What I find quite interesting, is with our clients’ blood work when we say, 'Have you had some blood work done? Bring it in and let's look at it.' A lot of clients have elevated liver enzymes, and when they start eating coconut oil, those enzymes come down.
RP: Yah, a researcher on hepatitis and cirrhosis, Amin A. Nanji, for years has been showing that the polyunsaturated fats injure the liver. I think it started with an Indian researcher noticing that in the butter regions of India, alcoholics didn't develop hepatitis or cirrhosis in the liver. So he tested his observation on rats, and found that if he fed them unsaturated oils, alcohol caused cirrhosis and hepatitis, if he fed them saturated fats, it didn't. So, Nanji tried that on his patients and found that their liver condition improved if he gave them a lot of saturated fats, and got worse if he fed them fish oils or seed oils.
HD: Gosh. So why do you think it is so prevalent in the literature, that we are bombarded from every seeming angle, from the newspapers, to the TV, to the radio, all the media out there purporting liquid oils to be beneficial things. It doesn't matter where you look, you find cardiovascular research for this or for that, associating the fish oils with lower incidence of cholesterol and improved heart health, and actually the picture from research is actually showing a very different story. I wonder why it is?
RP: There aren't many palm trees producing coconut oil in the United States and Canada!
HD: Didn't you say, Dr Peat, then when people take fish oils, and they have high cholesterol, that the cholesterol moves out of the blood and into the tissues as a stress response? So, if someone had a blood test to look at their cholesterol before and after using fish oils, it looks better after using fish oils, but it's not actually gotten out of the body, it's just stored in the tissues?
RP: Yah. And cholesterol is one of our most important protective anti-oxidants; a generally protective anti-toxin. And for the unsaturated fats to lower that, in the total production of it, and the level in the blood, it is part of why they are something to avoid. The liver knows to increase, retain, any cholesterol it can, because it's needed for cell division to go on, for cell function to go on. All of the internal cellular processes rely on both cholesterol and saturated fatty acids. And if you overdose on the PUFAs, all of these intracellular mechanisms are deranged, by interfering with the cholesterol and saturated fat functions. The chromosomes, the spindle that helps the cell divide, separates the chromosomes, and so on. All of these are stabilized, and require cholesterol and saturated fats to function. So you get deranged expression of genes and deranged cell division if you have too much polyunsaturated fats.
HD2: I had to pop out for a moment so I'm not sure if you covered all the different types of oils that fall under the category of the unsaturated versus the saturated. Humans have been eating saturated fats forever, for thousands and thousands of years and they didn't make seed oils. They didn't make oil out of corn.
HD: Apart from olive maybe.
HD: Well that's mostly, that's very little polyunsaturated, that's mostly mono-unsaturated.
RP: Yeah. The safe oils are butter, chocolate fat (which is mostly stearic acid), coconut oil, palm kernel oil, beef fat, lamb fat. And olive oil.
HD: People think of like pork fat and chicken fat as being bad fats. And they actually are bad fats because of what they feed the pigs and the chickens.
RP: Right.
HD: So, unlike beef fat, or butter, or cream and milk, and lamb fat, and any other ruminant animal that has multiple stomachs, the chicken fat and the pork fat are just as bad as the corn oil, because basically the pigs and the chickens are eating corn.
RP: Yah. And they're now farming fish and feeding them some of the same foods that they feed chickens and pigs. And interestingly, the things we think of as fish oil, the fish that live in the cold oceans get their fats from plankton. The small fish eat the plankton, and the plankton fat is made by algae. And the algae is where the n-3 fats come from. And the fish modify them a little, but basically what we call fish fat is algae fat. And in experiments, they have given, either warm blooded animals extra fish oil, or they give the fish a diet containing less unsaturated fat (like grains, or cereal fat, and so on, or chicken fat-I think was one was one they used-), or more unsaturated fat, like anchovy oil (the highly unsaturated oil of a small fish, that a salmon would maybe eat). And they tested their endurance: the rats getting the fish oil had less endurance; even the salmon on a pure fish oil diet had less endurance, than when they were getting chicken fat or some other less polyunsaturated fat. So fish oil isn't even so great for fish.
HD: So what about like the farmed shrimp? Because there's so many shrimps. Do you even think farmed shrimp even have the minerals in them, why it's good to eat shell fish?
RP: No. The good thing about anything growing in the ocean, is that it has access to selenium, iodine and other trace minerals. Where things grow inland, they depend on whatever’s in the soil. So they're often deficient in selenium and copper.
HD: So, farmed salmon, any kind of farmed fish or farmed shellfish, they all...(well apart from oysters they have to farm those in the ocean, I think)?
RP: Yah.
HD: They'll all be deficient; then there's actually no point eating them?
RP: Yah. Unless people know exactly what they feed them. And they probably don't.
HD: Then they're giving them vitamins and then you're eating recycled vitamins.
HD: Now Dr. Peat, what do you explain is the problems in the food chain with those things that either poison the cells directly or interfere with thyroid function? All hinge on the fact that as organisms, we need an excess of metabolic energy, to cope with the insults of the foods that we're exposed to, the drugs that we might take or environmental toxins, etc?
RP: Yah. And diabetes, is a good model of the energy deprived state. And they're starting to see... Several years ago someone suggested that Alzheimer's disease was diabetes of the brain. And people are seeing the effects of inflammation in all of the degenerative diseases. And inflammation involves a failure of energy, and a shift to the basically, the diabetic metabolism, in which, all you can do with glucose is make lactic acid.
HD: Which poisons you again, right?
RP: Yah. The lactic acid is pro-inflammatory and doesn't produce enough energy for normal function. And the essence of diabetes was pointed out by Randle in 1963 or 1964 when he observed that if you increase the free fatty acids in the blood, you very quickly make the cells unable to use glucose.
HD: Did it shift their metabolism from glucose directly or?
RP: Yah. It's now been worked out that, there are two very clear points where the free fatty acids inhibit the use of glucose: pyruvate dehydrogenase (that's the one you need to burn glucose), and then they stimulate glucagon which happens to turn on the synthesis of glucose at the expense of protein.
HD: Ok, they stimulate glucagon.
RP: Yea. And glucagon, then, in turn, stimulates the release of more fatty acids. There are several points where the free fatty acids activate, for example, adrenalin, ACTH, cortisone, thyrotropic hormone (TSH) and glucagon. All of which increase the release of free fatty acids from your fat cell storage. That seems very illogical of the body to create vicious circles in which once you start having an energy failure, you turn on exactly what caused it. But it turns out that it's only the polyunsaturated fatty acids that have those terrible anti-energy effects, if you look at a comparison of stearic and linoleic acid, for example.
HD: Which is like butter versus corn oil?
RP: Yea. The butter turns off adrenaline and ACTH and cortisol. And the corn oil turns them on. And the excitotoxic histamine in the brain that wears out, and can kill brain cells. Those are activated by the polyunsaturated fats, pretty much in proportion of the number of double bonds they have, arachidonic more than linoleic.
HD: So these promote Alzheimer's and other neurological, degenerative diseases?
RP: Yah. And they're calmed by stearic acid.
HD: Right which is beef fat? Or, stearic from steers?...
HD: It's in butter.
RP: Stearic is basically a Greek word meaning fat.
HD: Ok.
HD2: Ok, you are saying that these bad oils can cause diabetes, block your use of sugar, so that the blood sugar remains high, and also Alzheimer's.
HD: They block your energy production.
RP: Yah. And if you look up the saturation index - I googled it and saw that all, except one of the studies, found that people with cancer had much more polyunsaturated fats in the tumor and in their bodies than healthy people. For example, twice as much in one study. It was polyunsaturated where healthy people had equal amounts. Putting rodents on a diet of high saturated fat delayed their development of breast cancer, fitting in with the saturation index being a matter of protection against cancer. Similar for heart disease: there is a study in which adding the polyunsaturated fats shortened the lives of the animals with a tendency to heart disease, while a very high saturated fat diet greatly extended their lives.
HD2: Didn't Mr. Mazola die of a heart attack after he had been saying, 'Oh, corn oil is great!'. Like he was trying to sell everybody on corn oil, because everybody was used to eat saturated lard, or butter, or coconut oil. And he wanted people to buy his corn oil. So he was saying, 'You can drink this stuff. It's great for you! It's great for your heart!'. And then didn't he die at a young age of a heart attack? Isn't that true, Dr. Peat?
RP: I don't know about him. But I know of people famous for selling unsaturated fats dying of cancers that are known to be associated with an excess of PUFA.
HD2: PUFA is a abbreviated version of polyunsaturated fatty acid. And that is every other fat apart from what we have listed like palm oil, coconut oil, butter, beef fat, olive oil, any other solid fat.
RP: In recent years, people are seeing that the level of free fatty acids, which in our population means mostly unsaturated fats (because those are the ones which are most easily liberated from the fat storages)...There is an extremely close connection between free fatty acids in the blood and your likelihood of dying from just about anything: shock, aging, cancer, heart disease and infection.
HD: All associated with high levels of free fatty acids.
RP: Yah.
HD2: And isn't this something good for a diabetic to test? Because it could be showing that they are not using their sugar because the free fatty acids are so high?
RP: Yah. That's recognized for years that niacin is effective for not only heart disease, but diabetes, simply because it lowers the free fatty acids. But that isn't catching on because it's so cheap.
HD2: So food sources? I know coffee has a lot of niacinamide. What about chocolate? Doesn't chocolate have niacinamide?
RP: I don't know about chocolate.
HD2: But also beef liver?
RP: Yah.
HD2: What are food sources that are high in niacinamide?
RP: All of the animal foods have a reasonable amount: liver, milk, eggs.
Caller: A friend has problems digesting fat due to hereditary gallbladder difficulties. Are there any enzymes or supplements available that would help to digest fat? He has difficulty digesting red meat, pork, etc... Not so much with fish or poultry.
RP: There's a great tendency of hypothyroid people to have gallbladder disease and trouble digesting fats. The best thing to do for gallbladder disease is to improve your thyroid function, and avoiding unsaturated fats in all forms is very important for the thyroid function.
The myth tells us that the only difference between the unsaturated and saturated fatty acids is their shape. And they claim that it has to do with the mobility of the fat in membranes and so on. But really the absolute difference between saturated and unsaturated is the way they bind to proteins. And since the basic framework of the cell is protein, the saturated fats bind properly to the proteins, and the unsaturated fats don't bind the same, and bind to other proteins that they shouldn't bind to.
The protein that transports the thyroid hormone has sites that associate with the double bonds in the thyroid hormone molecule. And the unsaturated fats bind to those same sites on the transport protein, so that the protein can't carry thyroid. It carries unsaturated fats instead. And so the...
Caller: *Rudely interrupts Peat* Well that's interesting to know, and maybe what I could suggest to him is, to look into maybe what could be a cascading difficulty, that originates in the thyroid and maybe prevents the... Am I understanding correctly that it prevents the gallbladder from maybe properly producing enzymes necessary in that metabolism of fat?
RP: Right.
Caller: bla, bla, bla ...
HD2: *interrupts caller* And I wanted to say, while he is working to get that sorted out: There are lots of liver herbs that help improve bile flow and help improve digestion of fats. Gentian, tinctures of Gentian, Burdock root, Dandelion root; those are very bitter herbs that can really help stimulate that flow of bile, and help in the meantime, until he gets his system working on its own. Swedish bitters have all those types of bitter herbs in there.
Caller: bla, bla, bla... Thanks again.
HD: I wanted to get back to the concept of the energy balance in the organism and the negative effects that PUFA, the polyunsaturated liquid oils, seed oils, fish oil, canola oil, [have]. How do they impact the organism's ability to be metabolically active enough to have extra energy currency, as it were, to pay off the debt of inflammation and other things that the organism might come into contact with?
RP: The one enzyme that I mentioned, the pyruvate dehydrogenase, is the one that feeds glucose into the activated system. But then the mitochondrial oxidative system itself is basically destroyed in proportion to the polyunsaturated fat exposure.
HD: This is the system within every cell. The mitochondria are little factories that work in the cell.
RP: Yah, it produces something like 35 times more energy per molecule of sugar than the diabetic pathway can produce.
HD: Cause the diabetics are forced, for want of a better word, into a fat-burning mode rather than glucose-burning.
RP: Yah. And if it was purely saturated fat, that would be OK. When we’re at rest, our cells can burn saturated fat; they prefer that! The fat cells have been found to burn at rest. I mean, they are always at rest, where the heart or skeleton muscles only in a relatively quiet state will burn saturated fats. But the fat cells, being always at rest, slowly energize themselves by burning saturated fat. And that's why with age, our tissues become more and more concentrated with polyunsaturated fats; because the fat cells themselves are using the good stuff. So with age, it's seen all the way from birth to old age, there’s a progressive increase of polyunsaturated fats in all our tissues.
HD: Right. From our diets.
RP: Yah. So then, when we’re under stress, and don't get enough sugar, then we have to burn the bad stuff. And that does many things to the mitochondria, including sometimes sudden death. But the chronic effect is known to destroy the genes (the genetic material inside the mitochondrion), whereas saturated fat doesn't.
HD: Would that give rise to cancers then as a result of damaged DNA?
RP: Yah.
HD: So you’re saying that this doesn't really occur; only in the presence of polyunsaturated destructive changes...?
RP: Yah. The saturated fats are just quietly oxidized.
HD: Cause they are relatively stable or...?
RP: Yah. They don't break down into the isoprostanes; and neuroprostanes are equivalent to the prostaglandins. But they are made randomly under stress and oxidation.
HD: Right, they are very inflammatory.
RP: Yah. And several of the fragment molecules that are made from the n-6 or n-3 molecule hydroxynonenol and hydroxyhexenol, these attach to hemoglobin, genetic material, enzymes, signaling molecules,...
HD: Is this glycation?
RP: Yah. And most of the things that are called glycation are really fat-breakdown products.
HD2: Basically, if you're a diabetic, then most likely you're going to be breaking down these bad fats in your tissues. You can get a blood test that shows that you have high lactic acid from this inefficient metabolism where you burn this fat (that’s really a bad fat, not a saturated fat) ?
RP: Yah.
HD2: What would happen if a diabetic only ate saturated fats?
RP: Well, it takes a long time to use up the unsaturated fats; depends on how old and how fat you are. A thin person can change very quickly. It isn't just the storage fats that become very highly polyunsaturated with age, but every tissue contains phospholipids and other very complex molecules containing the fatty acids.
HD2: So what would be, like, the maximum time? If someone who had cancer or diabetes or Alzheimer's? How long would it take if they stopped eating all of these unsaturated, polyunsaturated fatty acids, all these bad oils, and just started eating butter and coconut oil?
RP: Well, they've looked at people moving from Holland to England, for example, or rats or chickens that are put on a different diet and it ... The complete changeover takes years, about four years. But you can, if you eat frequently, and thoroughly avoid the stress-causing foods, and don't let yourself get hungry enough that you call on the stress hormones to liberate fat, you can very quickly shift over to the efficient metabolism. Frequent eating, but always with sugar, and always with absolutely no PUFA; you'll allow the slow disposition of the unsaturated toxic fats. And our liver treats the PUFA like it treats other toxins; if it has the energy, it attaches them to a sugar and prepares them to be excreted in urine, just like chloroform, or dioxin, or whatever.
HD: Any other toxin, yah, haha.
HD2: So that's also why when like women will go on these weight loss programs and they lose say 60-70 pounds in a year, that their liver enzymes go up, and their liver shows signs of stress, and that's because they burn too many of these polyunsaturated fats at once?
RP: Yah. If your liver stays energized with frequent feedings and good nutrition, it can slowly eliminate those fats without running them through the mitochondria. But when you're under stress, you not only damage all of your blood vessels, and nerve cells, and so on, but you very specifically knock out the exact enzymes which are needed to detoxify things.
HD2: So, lots of snacks of fruit and cheese, or fruit and milk. Things like that, to keep your energy metabolism going well, will help prevent these bad fats from coming into circulation too quickly at once.
RP: Yah.
Caller: [Caller talks a bit about the 'blood type diet' talks and says how when he's stressed he wants meat, he feels good after he satisfies his meat craving. ]
HD2: Or even cravings, that would be an interesting question for you Dr. Peat. As far as a person's cravings for, like, when they really want that steak. Or they really want, like, I've been having cravings for watermelon, I really want some watermelon. So what is the brain trying to tell us with that?
RP: There have been animal studies, and some studies in kids, showing that we have very specific nerve systems that tell us what we're deficient in. Except for the quality protein, there are only a few of the amino acids that our systems detects as deficiencies. ( I forget which those are). But we do crave protein, when we're deficient in protein (if the (craved) food is a balanced type of protein). And we crave sugar and salt very specifically, if we need those. And hypothyroid people generally crave sugar and salty food. And vitamin C is something that causes a craving for sour, tangy foods (fruits, for example).
HD2: Caller are you still on the air?
Caller: Yes.
HD2: So did that answer your question?
Caller: [Caller talks about his cravings when he is stressed and expresses concern about fat in beef.]
HD2: As far as the beef fat is concerned, that is not a dangerous fat. Of course, now with industrial cattle raising... If they are giving the animals hormones, those will get stored in the fat (all the toxins still get stored in the fat). But if it's a grass-fed organic animal, that should be fairly clean. It's the chicken, pork, turkey and fish fats that have been shown in these studies to be dangerous, blocking your use of sugar, slowing down cell's metabolism, altering the genetics, and all that sort of things.
Caller: You said that, at least with swine and chickens, that it's really the feed that is causing that. Would that be the same with fish? Are you referencing only farmed fish, or are you saying all fish?
RP: They’ve seen a change of diet affecting even farmed salmon. And the fish really has almost an absolute reflection of their diet in their fat. Fish in the Amazon contains fat that’s as saturated as butter, because of the temperature of the water.
Caller: So the story why the Eskimos don't get heart disease because they eat a lot of fish...
HD2: it's because they eat whale blubber, which is very saturated. They live off of whale blubber. [everyone's laughing]
Caller: I don't know if I’ll go that far in my diet.
HD2: No, I know. We have butter. We have grass-fed beef, and milk from grass-fed cows. One thing I want to point out is that when cows eat the bad food (just like the chickens and the pigs, all the corn and all the soy that's in it), because they have four stomachs, they can transform that bad fat from the corn into a saturated fat. So it's not [as] dangerous as if you ate the fat of the chicken or of the pig or the turkey.
RP: The cow’s gut bacterias use vitamin E to saturate the fat, basically detoxifying the unsaturated fats. Vitamin E, even in humans, will cause some of that in the intestine, if there are bacteria present with fat. Vitamin E lets the bacteria saturate and detoxify some of the PUFA. So one of the small effects of vitamin E is to destroy the polyunsaturated fat, rather than just protecting against its aftereffects.
HD2: So, if someone were to eat French fries, they could take up some vitamin E with it, to help prevent some of the damage?
RP: Yah. Or make the French fries in coconut oil.
HD: Okay, so now that last caller who mentioned, when they get stressed, they want to gravitate towards - I think he was gravitating towards meat, but he did mention donuts would be something else that he would consume, perhaps under stress. Do you understand that stress perhaps is being a need for blood sugar?
RP: Yea. There are these specific needs. A protein-deficient person or animal will gravitate towards the higher protein in the food. But the most intense connection between need and appetite is between sugar and salt.
HD: There is misinformation out there in the media portraying all liquid oils is good. As soy is good. Sugar is bad. And salt is bad, when actually salt and sugar are both very important for you anti-stress compounds for lowering adrenaline. And the saturated fat is actually very good in supporting a healthy metabolism. What do you think about the free fatty acids in relation...
HD2: I just want to say: you can't just eat salt on its own. You can't eat sugar on its own. You want to balance it with a good protein and a good fat. So you keep it all in balance.
HD: Maybe we have time for you to explain the Randle hypothesis proposed 30 years ago, and that science wants to ignore now ?
RP: Some people call it the Randle cycle, but there is no cycle involved; it's just a competition. When you raise your free fatty acids, you inhibit the ability to oxidize glucose. Stress increases the free fatty acids. Oxidizing glucose is what you need to overcome the stress. And so, it's sort of a counterproductive reaction. But the reason it’s counterproductive is that our systems are designed not to eat PUFA. And it's the PUFA which very systematically - it's just an amazing black-and-white almost difference- the way the PUFA turn on the very stress hormones that interfere with the energy, making it the body need more stress hormones, blocking the energy. So that if we eat more [PUFA], we are turning on the very things that cause the problem.
HD: Why does the body want to do that?
RP: The body is designed, apparently from how completely systematic it is, to respond to saturated fat. Saturated fats block the stress reaction. So the properly functioning body would be logical: the stress reaction would provide energy in the absence of food, would provide the saturated fats from the storage, and at the same time it would inhibit the stress hormones and allow the cycle to be broken.
HD2: So, our body is used to eating saturated fats for thousands and thousands of years. It is not responding to the unsaturated fats they are producing since the 1920' like it does to the saturated. So we are eating poison basically.
RP: If science had simply been looking to understand the situation since 1930, things would have been very clear by 1950. But the very systematic differences between saturated and unsaturated fats would have become perfectly apparent in just a few years of open discussion. But advertising has totally swamped the whole cultural situation. So even the scientists and doctors dealing with the situation...they don't see the picture of how clearly polarized the types of fats are in their effects on the physiology.
HD2: And it's become a big snowball effect.
RP: Yah.
HD2: Dr. Peat is there anything more you wanted to say or any parting words for our listeners.
RP: No.
HD2: Eat good fats and keep your energy working. Lots of snacks.
HD: Thank you so much for sharing your time with us again. We really do appreciate it.
RP: Ok. Thank you.
HD: Thank you.
HD: Andrew Murray
HD2: Sarah Johanneson Murray
RP: Ray Peat
SE: Sound engineer
HD: Can you give us a background of your education, and what you're bringing to this show ?
RP: I've studied lot of different things, but my biological studies was at the University of Oregon. I've spent four years there, working on a PhD, starting out thinking I was going to do nerve biology and brain biology, and the people in that section were so dogmatic. I've looked around and found that the reproductive physiology and aging people were actually scientifically oriented. So I shifted over in my dissertation on the hormones and physiology and energy metabolism of aging and reproductive systems.
HD: I know you're very interested in maintaining a good thyroid function, which is a key cornerstone to maintaining biological energy production. And that's so important in fighting the negative effects of materials in our environment that would lower our metabolic energy. The main one would be polyunsaturated fats, potentially implicated in diabetes, triglycerides, and general lipid health ?
RP: Yah. The people who created the idea of the essential fatty acids, actually a few years later did an experiment with one of their lab people, that I think really showed all of the important features of why people should not eat the essential so-called fatty acids. In 1929, when the Burrs published their claim that the polyunsaturated fats linoleic acid and linolenic acid are those that are essential for life; other biologists had shown that animals were healthier when they had no fat in their diet, had almost no cancer spontaneously developing. But the Burrs simply ignored the evidence that the fats were harmful. And other biologists ignored them pretty much for about twenty years, because the evidence was so overwhelmingly against their claims. In their faith that those fats were essential, one of their lab people agreed to go on a fat free diet for six months. And his health remarkably improved. His blood lipids changed somewhat; the cholesterol went down a little, and the triglycerides went up a little. But the total lipids quantity stayed about the same. But he didn't get tired after a day's work, as he always had. And his lifelong weekly migraines headaches disappeared forever.
So, nothing really was assuring the support of their position until the seed oil industry wanted to market their liquid seed oils; cotton seed oil, linseed oil, soybean oil and so on. And they brought the Burrs out of obscurity, and since they have proven that the fatty acids linoleic acid and linolenic acid are essential for life, 'We'll get the public to eat them in huge quantities, and treat them as drugs, rather than as simply trace nutrient,' that according to their somewhat unconvincing research as trace nutrients, they were supposedly doing something to make the skin healthier. But the counter-evidence had included such things as many animal diseases; that degenerative brain diseases, atrophy of the gonads, and infertility, and so on, were connected with eating too much of the unsaturated fats. And vitamin E was found to protect against that. So, it was all marketing campaign to sell the idea that not only are those fats essential, but they're good for you, and like a drug they will prevent heart disease. But very soon, people started producing evidence showing that in fact linoleic acid not only causes heart disease, but promotes cancer, immune problems, all kinds of things similar to what they had seen in the animals.
HD: All of these PUFAs then, the fish oils, the hemp seed oil, canola etc… so these are all the liquid oils, as you are referring to, that are so common in the food chain now.
RP: Yah. And in the 1950s, they were feeding a lot of fish to mink, in the mink farms. And they were producing what was called the yellow fat disease, which apparently was related to the age pigment lipofuscin, which is the brown pigment that develops from the breakdown of the polyunsaturated fats. So the fish oils were, right along with the seed oils, for seeming to be toxic in the 50s and 60s. But by the 1970s, linoleic acid was being recognized as a major cause of heart disease and cancer.
So, they had sold the public on the idea of essential fatty acids, and they just changed the story and said: 'Well, fish oils or linseed oil are a different kind of fat, they aren't the omega-6 oils like the deadly linoleic acid, they are the omega-3.' But those had already themselves been incriminated with the yellow fat and lipofuscin diseases.
HD: OK. So they just switched tactics to the omega-3s and tried to sell those?
RP: Yah, and that's where we are now with the fish oil craze.
HD: What I find quite interesting, is with our clients’ blood work when we say, 'Have you had some blood work done? Bring it in and let's look at it.' A lot of clients have elevated liver enzymes, and when they start eating coconut oil, those enzymes come down.
RP: Yah, a researcher on hepatitis and cirrhosis, Amin A. Nanji, for years has been showing that the polyunsaturated fats injure the liver. I think it started with an Indian researcher noticing that in the butter regions of India, alcoholics didn't develop hepatitis or cirrhosis in the liver. So he tested his observation on rats, and found that if he fed them unsaturated oils, alcohol caused cirrhosis and hepatitis, if he fed them saturated fats, it didn't. So, Nanji tried that on his patients and found that their liver condition improved if he gave them a lot of saturated fats, and got worse if he fed them fish oils or seed oils.
HD: Gosh. So why do you think it is so prevalent in the literature, that we are bombarded from every seeming angle, from the newspapers, to the TV, to the radio, all the media out there purporting liquid oils to be beneficial things. It doesn't matter where you look, you find cardiovascular research for this or for that, associating the fish oils with lower incidence of cholesterol and improved heart health, and actually the picture from research is actually showing a very different story. I wonder why it is?
RP: There aren't many palm trees producing coconut oil in the United States and Canada!
HD: Didn't you say, Dr Peat, then when people take fish oils, and they have high cholesterol, that the cholesterol moves out of the blood and into the tissues as a stress response? So, if someone had a blood test to look at their cholesterol before and after using fish oils, it looks better after using fish oils, but it's not actually gotten out of the body, it's just stored in the tissues?
RP: Yah. And cholesterol is one of our most important protective anti-oxidants; a generally protective anti-toxin. And for the unsaturated fats to lower that, in the total production of it, and the level in the blood, it is part of why they are something to avoid. The liver knows to increase, retain, any cholesterol it can, because it's needed for cell division to go on, for cell function to go on. All of the internal cellular processes rely on both cholesterol and saturated fatty acids. And if you overdose on the PUFAs, all of these intracellular mechanisms are deranged, by interfering with the cholesterol and saturated fat functions. The chromosomes, the spindle that helps the cell divide, separates the chromosomes, and so on. All of these are stabilized, and require cholesterol and saturated fats to function. So you get deranged expression of genes and deranged cell division if you have too much polyunsaturated fats.
HD2: I had to pop out for a moment so I'm not sure if you covered all the different types of oils that fall under the category of the unsaturated versus the saturated. Humans have been eating saturated fats forever, for thousands and thousands of years and they didn't make seed oils. They didn't make oil out of corn.
HD: Apart from olive maybe.
HD: Well that's mostly, that's very little polyunsaturated, that's mostly mono-unsaturated.
RP: Yeah. The safe oils are butter, chocolate fat (which is mostly stearic acid), coconut oil, palm kernel oil, beef fat, lamb fat. And olive oil.
HD: People think of like pork fat and chicken fat as being bad fats. And they actually are bad fats because of what they feed the pigs and the chickens.
RP: Right.
HD: So, unlike beef fat, or butter, or cream and milk, and lamb fat, and any other ruminant animal that has multiple stomachs, the chicken fat and the pork fat are just as bad as the corn oil, because basically the pigs and the chickens are eating corn.
RP: Yah. And they're now farming fish and feeding them some of the same foods that they feed chickens and pigs. And interestingly, the things we think of as fish oil, the fish that live in the cold oceans get their fats from plankton. The small fish eat the plankton, and the plankton fat is made by algae. And the algae is where the n-3 fats come from. And the fish modify them a little, but basically what we call fish fat is algae fat. And in experiments, they have given, either warm blooded animals extra fish oil, or they give the fish a diet containing less unsaturated fat (like grains, or cereal fat, and so on, or chicken fat-I think was one was one they used-), or more unsaturated fat, like anchovy oil (the highly unsaturated oil of a small fish, that a salmon would maybe eat). And they tested their endurance: the rats getting the fish oil had less endurance; even the salmon on a pure fish oil diet had less endurance, than when they were getting chicken fat or some other less polyunsaturated fat. So fish oil isn't even so great for fish.
HD: So what about like the farmed shrimp? Because there's so many shrimps. Do you even think farmed shrimp even have the minerals in them, why it's good to eat shell fish?
RP: No. The good thing about anything growing in the ocean, is that it has access to selenium, iodine and other trace minerals. Where things grow inland, they depend on whatever’s in the soil. So they're often deficient in selenium and copper.
HD: So, farmed salmon, any kind of farmed fish or farmed shellfish, they all...(well apart from oysters they have to farm those in the ocean, I think)?
RP: Yah.
HD: They'll all be deficient; then there's actually no point eating them?
RP: Yah. Unless people know exactly what they feed them. And they probably don't.
HD: Then they're giving them vitamins and then you're eating recycled vitamins.
HD: Now Dr. Peat, what do you explain is the problems in the food chain with those things that either poison the cells directly or interfere with thyroid function? All hinge on the fact that as organisms, we need an excess of metabolic energy, to cope with the insults of the foods that we're exposed to, the drugs that we might take or environmental toxins, etc?
RP: Yah. And diabetes, is a good model of the energy deprived state. And they're starting to see... Several years ago someone suggested that Alzheimer's disease was diabetes of the brain. And people are seeing the effects of inflammation in all of the degenerative diseases. And inflammation involves a failure of energy, and a shift to the basically, the diabetic metabolism, in which, all you can do with glucose is make lactic acid.
HD: Which poisons you again, right?
RP: Yah. The lactic acid is pro-inflammatory and doesn't produce enough energy for normal function. And the essence of diabetes was pointed out by Randle in 1963 or 1964 when he observed that if you increase the free fatty acids in the blood, you very quickly make the cells unable to use glucose.
HD: Did it shift their metabolism from glucose directly or?
RP: Yah. It's now been worked out that, there are two very clear points where the free fatty acids inhibit the use of glucose: pyruvate dehydrogenase (that's the one you need to burn glucose), and then they stimulate glucagon which happens to turn on the synthesis of glucose at the expense of protein.
HD: Ok, they stimulate glucagon.
RP: Yea. And glucagon, then, in turn, stimulates the release of more fatty acids. There are several points where the free fatty acids activate, for example, adrenalin, ACTH, cortisone, thyrotropic hormone (TSH) and glucagon. All of which increase the release of free fatty acids from your fat cell storage. That seems very illogical of the body to create vicious circles in which once you start having an energy failure, you turn on exactly what caused it. But it turns out that it's only the polyunsaturated fatty acids that have those terrible anti-energy effects, if you look at a comparison of stearic and linoleic acid, for example.
HD: Which is like butter versus corn oil?
RP: Yea. The butter turns off adrenaline and ACTH and cortisol. And the corn oil turns them on. And the excitotoxic histamine in the brain that wears out, and can kill brain cells. Those are activated by the polyunsaturated fats, pretty much in proportion of the number of double bonds they have, arachidonic more than linoleic.
HD: So these promote Alzheimer's and other neurological, degenerative diseases?
RP: Yah. And they're calmed by stearic acid.
HD: Right which is beef fat? Or, stearic from steers?...
HD: It's in butter.
RP: Stearic is basically a Greek word meaning fat.
HD: Ok.
HD2: Ok, you are saying that these bad oils can cause diabetes, block your use of sugar, so that the blood sugar remains high, and also Alzheimer's.
HD: They block your energy production.
RP: Yah. And if you look up the saturation index - I googled it and saw that all, except one of the studies, found that people with cancer had much more polyunsaturated fats in the tumor and in their bodies than healthy people. For example, twice as much in one study. It was polyunsaturated where healthy people had equal amounts. Putting rodents on a diet of high saturated fat delayed their development of breast cancer, fitting in with the saturation index being a matter of protection against cancer. Similar for heart disease: there is a study in which adding the polyunsaturated fats shortened the lives of the animals with a tendency to heart disease, while a very high saturated fat diet greatly extended their lives.
HD2: Didn't Mr. Mazola die of a heart attack after he had been saying, 'Oh, corn oil is great!'. Like he was trying to sell everybody on corn oil, because everybody was used to eat saturated lard, or butter, or coconut oil. And he wanted people to buy his corn oil. So he was saying, 'You can drink this stuff. It's great for you! It's great for your heart!'. And then didn't he die at a young age of a heart attack? Isn't that true, Dr. Peat?
RP: I don't know about him. But I know of people famous for selling unsaturated fats dying of cancers that are known to be associated with an excess of PUFA.
HD2: PUFA is a abbreviated version of polyunsaturated fatty acid. And that is every other fat apart from what we have listed like palm oil, coconut oil, butter, beef fat, olive oil, any other solid fat.
RP: In recent years, people are seeing that the level of free fatty acids, which in our population means mostly unsaturated fats (because those are the ones which are most easily liberated from the fat storages)...There is an extremely close connection between free fatty acids in the blood and your likelihood of dying from just about anything: shock, aging, cancer, heart disease and infection.
HD: All associated with high levels of free fatty acids.
RP: Yah.
HD2: And isn't this something good for a diabetic to test? Because it could be showing that they are not using their sugar because the free fatty acids are so high?
RP: Yah. That's recognized for years that niacin is effective for not only heart disease, but diabetes, simply because it lowers the free fatty acids. But that isn't catching on because it's so cheap.
HD2: So food sources? I know coffee has a lot of niacinamide. What about chocolate? Doesn't chocolate have niacinamide?
RP: I don't know about chocolate.
HD2: But also beef liver?
RP: Yah.
HD2: What are food sources that are high in niacinamide?
RP: All of the animal foods have a reasonable amount: liver, milk, eggs.
Caller: A friend has problems digesting fat due to hereditary gallbladder difficulties. Are there any enzymes or supplements available that would help to digest fat? He has difficulty digesting red meat, pork, etc... Not so much with fish or poultry.
RP: There's a great tendency of hypothyroid people to have gallbladder disease and trouble digesting fats. The best thing to do for gallbladder disease is to improve your thyroid function, and avoiding unsaturated fats in all forms is very important for the thyroid function.
The myth tells us that the only difference between the unsaturated and saturated fatty acids is their shape. And they claim that it has to do with the mobility of the fat in membranes and so on. But really the absolute difference between saturated and unsaturated is the way they bind to proteins. And since the basic framework of the cell is protein, the saturated fats bind properly to the proteins, and the unsaturated fats don't bind the same, and bind to other proteins that they shouldn't bind to.
The protein that transports the thyroid hormone has sites that associate with the double bonds in the thyroid hormone molecule. And the unsaturated fats bind to those same sites on the transport protein, so that the protein can't carry thyroid. It carries unsaturated fats instead. And so the...
Caller: *Rudely interrupts Peat* Well that's interesting to know, and maybe what I could suggest to him is, to look into maybe what could be a cascading difficulty, that originates in the thyroid and maybe prevents the... Am I understanding correctly that it prevents the gallbladder from maybe properly producing enzymes necessary in that metabolism of fat?
RP: Right.
Caller: bla, bla, bla ...
HD2: *interrupts caller* And I wanted to say, while he is working to get that sorted out: There are lots of liver herbs that help improve bile flow and help improve digestion of fats. Gentian, tinctures of Gentian, Burdock root, Dandelion root; those are very bitter herbs that can really help stimulate that flow of bile, and help in the meantime, until he gets his system working on its own. Swedish bitters have all those types of bitter herbs in there.
Caller: bla, bla, bla... Thanks again.
HD: I wanted to get back to the concept of the energy balance in the organism and the negative effects that PUFA, the polyunsaturated liquid oils, seed oils, fish oil, canola oil, [have]. How do they impact the organism's ability to be metabolically active enough to have extra energy currency, as it were, to pay off the debt of inflammation and other things that the organism might come into contact with?
RP: The one enzyme that I mentioned, the pyruvate dehydrogenase, is the one that feeds glucose into the activated system. But then the mitochondrial oxidative system itself is basically destroyed in proportion to the polyunsaturated fat exposure.
HD: This is the system within every cell. The mitochondria are little factories that work in the cell.
RP: Yah, it produces something like 35 times more energy per molecule of sugar than the diabetic pathway can produce.
HD: Cause the diabetics are forced, for want of a better word, into a fat-burning mode rather than glucose-burning.
RP: Yah. And if it was purely saturated fat, that would be OK. When we’re at rest, our cells can burn saturated fat; they prefer that! The fat cells have been found to burn at rest. I mean, they are always at rest, where the heart or skeleton muscles only in a relatively quiet state will burn saturated fats. But the fat cells, being always at rest, slowly energize themselves by burning saturated fat. And that's why with age, our tissues become more and more concentrated with polyunsaturated fats; because the fat cells themselves are using the good stuff. So with age, it's seen all the way from birth to old age, there’s a progressive increase of polyunsaturated fats in all our tissues.
HD: Right. From our diets.
RP: Yah. So then, when we’re under stress, and don't get enough sugar, then we have to burn the bad stuff. And that does many things to the mitochondria, including sometimes sudden death. But the chronic effect is known to destroy the genes (the genetic material inside the mitochondrion), whereas saturated fat doesn't.
HD: Would that give rise to cancers then as a result of damaged DNA?
RP: Yah.
HD: So you’re saying that this doesn't really occur; only in the presence of polyunsaturated destructive changes...?
RP: Yah. The saturated fats are just quietly oxidized.
HD: Cause they are relatively stable or...?
RP: Yah. They don't break down into the isoprostanes; and neuroprostanes are equivalent to the prostaglandins. But they are made randomly under stress and oxidation.
HD: Right, they are very inflammatory.
RP: Yah. And several of the fragment molecules that are made from the n-6 or n-3 molecule hydroxynonenol and hydroxyhexenol, these attach to hemoglobin, genetic material, enzymes, signaling molecules,...
HD: Is this glycation?
RP: Yah. And most of the things that are called glycation are really fat-breakdown products.
HD2: Basically, if you're a diabetic, then most likely you're going to be breaking down these bad fats in your tissues. You can get a blood test that shows that you have high lactic acid from this inefficient metabolism where you burn this fat (that’s really a bad fat, not a saturated fat) ?
RP: Yah.
HD2: What would happen if a diabetic only ate saturated fats?
RP: Well, it takes a long time to use up the unsaturated fats; depends on how old and how fat you are. A thin person can change very quickly. It isn't just the storage fats that become very highly polyunsaturated with age, but every tissue contains phospholipids and other very complex molecules containing the fatty acids.
HD2: So what would be, like, the maximum time? If someone who had cancer or diabetes or Alzheimer's? How long would it take if they stopped eating all of these unsaturated, polyunsaturated fatty acids, all these bad oils, and just started eating butter and coconut oil?
RP: Well, they've looked at people moving from Holland to England, for example, or rats or chickens that are put on a different diet and it ... The complete changeover takes years, about four years. But you can, if you eat frequently, and thoroughly avoid the stress-causing foods, and don't let yourself get hungry enough that you call on the stress hormones to liberate fat, you can very quickly shift over to the efficient metabolism. Frequent eating, but always with sugar, and always with absolutely no PUFA; you'll allow the slow disposition of the unsaturated toxic fats. And our liver treats the PUFA like it treats other toxins; if it has the energy, it attaches them to a sugar and prepares them to be excreted in urine, just like chloroform, or dioxin, or whatever.
HD: Any other toxin, yah, haha.
HD2: So that's also why when like women will go on these weight loss programs and they lose say 60-70 pounds in a year, that their liver enzymes go up, and their liver shows signs of stress, and that's because they burn too many of these polyunsaturated fats at once?
RP: Yah. If your liver stays energized with frequent feedings and good nutrition, it can slowly eliminate those fats without running them through the mitochondria. But when you're under stress, you not only damage all of your blood vessels, and nerve cells, and so on, but you very specifically knock out the exact enzymes which are needed to detoxify things.
HD2: So, lots of snacks of fruit and cheese, or fruit and milk. Things like that, to keep your energy metabolism going well, will help prevent these bad fats from coming into circulation too quickly at once.
RP: Yah.
Caller: [Caller talks a bit about the 'blood type diet' talks and says how when he's stressed he wants meat, he feels good after he satisfies his meat craving. ]
HD2: Or even cravings, that would be an interesting question for you Dr. Peat. As far as a person's cravings for, like, when they really want that steak. Or they really want, like, I've been having cravings for watermelon, I really want some watermelon. So what is the brain trying to tell us with that?
RP: There have been animal studies, and some studies in kids, showing that we have very specific nerve systems that tell us what we're deficient in. Except for the quality protein, there are only a few of the amino acids that our systems detects as deficiencies. ( I forget which those are). But we do crave protein, when we're deficient in protein (if the (craved) food is a balanced type of protein). And we crave sugar and salt very specifically, if we need those. And hypothyroid people generally crave sugar and salty food. And vitamin C is something that causes a craving for sour, tangy foods (fruits, for example).
HD2: Caller are you still on the air?
Caller: Yes.
HD2: So did that answer your question?
Caller: [Caller talks about his cravings when he is stressed and expresses concern about fat in beef.]
HD2: As far as the beef fat is concerned, that is not a dangerous fat. Of course, now with industrial cattle raising... If they are giving the animals hormones, those will get stored in the fat (all the toxins still get stored in the fat). But if it's a grass-fed organic animal, that should be fairly clean. It's the chicken, pork, turkey and fish fats that have been shown in these studies to be dangerous, blocking your use of sugar, slowing down cell's metabolism, altering the genetics, and all that sort of things.
Caller: You said that, at least with swine and chickens, that it's really the feed that is causing that. Would that be the same with fish? Are you referencing only farmed fish, or are you saying all fish?
RP: They’ve seen a change of diet affecting even farmed salmon. And the fish really has almost an absolute reflection of their diet in their fat. Fish in the Amazon contains fat that’s as saturated as butter, because of the temperature of the water.
Caller: So the story why the Eskimos don't get heart disease because they eat a lot of fish...
HD2: it's because they eat whale blubber, which is very saturated. They live off of whale blubber. [everyone's laughing]
Caller: I don't know if I’ll go that far in my diet.
HD2: No, I know. We have butter. We have grass-fed beef, and milk from grass-fed cows. One thing I want to point out is that when cows eat the bad food (just like the chickens and the pigs, all the corn and all the soy that's in it), because they have four stomachs, they can transform that bad fat from the corn into a saturated fat. So it's not [as] dangerous as if you ate the fat of the chicken or of the pig or the turkey.
RP: The cow’s gut bacterias use vitamin E to saturate the fat, basically detoxifying the unsaturated fats. Vitamin E, even in humans, will cause some of that in the intestine, if there are bacteria present with fat. Vitamin E lets the bacteria saturate and detoxify some of the PUFA. So one of the small effects of vitamin E is to destroy the polyunsaturated fat, rather than just protecting against its aftereffects.
HD2: So, if someone were to eat French fries, they could take up some vitamin E with it, to help prevent some of the damage?
RP: Yah. Or make the French fries in coconut oil.
HD: Okay, so now that last caller who mentioned, when they get stressed, they want to gravitate towards - I think he was gravitating towards meat, but he did mention donuts would be something else that he would consume, perhaps under stress. Do you understand that stress perhaps is being a need for blood sugar?
RP: Yea. There are these specific needs. A protein-deficient person or animal will gravitate towards the higher protein in the food. But the most intense connection between need and appetite is between sugar and salt.
HD: There is misinformation out there in the media portraying all liquid oils is good. As soy is good. Sugar is bad. And salt is bad, when actually salt and sugar are both very important for you anti-stress compounds for lowering adrenaline. And the saturated fat is actually very good in supporting a healthy metabolism. What do you think about the free fatty acids in relation...
HD2: I just want to say: you can't just eat salt on its own. You can't eat sugar on its own. You want to balance it with a good protein and a good fat. So you keep it all in balance.
HD: Maybe we have time for you to explain the Randle hypothesis proposed 30 years ago, and that science wants to ignore now ?
RP: Some people call it the Randle cycle, but there is no cycle involved; it's just a competition. When you raise your free fatty acids, you inhibit the ability to oxidize glucose. Stress increases the free fatty acids. Oxidizing glucose is what you need to overcome the stress. And so, it's sort of a counterproductive reaction. But the reason it’s counterproductive is that our systems are designed not to eat PUFA. And it's the PUFA which very systematically - it's just an amazing black-and-white almost difference- the way the PUFA turn on the very stress hormones that interfere with the energy, making it the body need more stress hormones, blocking the energy. So that if we eat more [PUFA], we are turning on the very things that cause the problem.
HD: Why does the body want to do that?
RP: The body is designed, apparently from how completely systematic it is, to respond to saturated fat. Saturated fats block the stress reaction. So the properly functioning body would be logical: the stress reaction would provide energy in the absence of food, would provide the saturated fats from the storage, and at the same time it would inhibit the stress hormones and allow the cycle to be broken.
HD2: So, our body is used to eating saturated fats for thousands and thousands of years. It is not responding to the unsaturated fats they are producing since the 1920' like it does to the saturated. So we are eating poison basically.
RP: If science had simply been looking to understand the situation since 1930, things would have been very clear by 1950. But the very systematic differences between saturated and unsaturated fats would have become perfectly apparent in just a few years of open discussion. But advertising has totally swamped the whole cultural situation. So even the scientists and doctors dealing with the situation...they don't see the picture of how clearly polarized the types of fats are in their effects on the physiology.
HD2: And it's become a big snowball effect.
RP: Yah.
HD2: Dr. Peat is there anything more you wanted to say or any parting words for our listeners.
RP: No.
HD2: Eat good fats and keep your energy working. Lots of snacks.
HD: Thank you so much for sharing your time with us again. We really do appreciate it.
RP: Ok. Thank you.
HD: Thank you.
cdg
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The early KMUD interviews are now available at:
http://www.westernbotanicalmedicine.org/media.html
Should be nice to get some transcripts of these.
Thanks
http://www.westernbotanicalmedicine.org/media.html
Should be nice to get some transcripts of these.
Thanks
OP
burtlancast
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cdg said:
Indeed !
For reminders, anybody's free to spend 1 hour of it's spare time and transcribe 5 minutes of selected interviews: viewforum.php?f=78
Last edited by a moderator:
cdg
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Indeed !
For reminders, anybody's free to spend 1 hour of it's spare time and transcribe 5 minutes of selected interviews: viewforum.php?f=78
The link as changed to: http://westernbotanicalmedicine.com/media.html
There are some fabulous interviews on Sugar, Radiation, Salt etc. These interviews are much better than the recent ones in that we actually get hear Ray instead Andrew and some of his bimbo callers
DaveFoster
Member
Thank you for transcribing these burtlancast. These are absolutely fantastic; intellectually liberating.
cdg
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burtlancast and others have you seen Best Free Way To Automatically Transcribe Video: Audio to Text as per:Indeed !
For reminders, anybody's free to spend 1 hour of it's spare time and transcribe 5 minutes of selected interviews: viewforum.php?f=78
. If it works as suggested it should make life much easier
cdg
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Thanks a million for transcribing burtlancast! That was a particularly good podcast.
The audio link does not work for some reason. Here is the org. link:
http://www.westernbotanicalmedicine.com/audio/2011 Metabolic Energy Nov 2011.mp3
OP
burtlancast
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Thanks you, gents.
It was a team work, as written.
It was a team work, as written.
Haha whoever transcribed this part clearly got fed up with the caller. Cant blame him/her! Man, they can be a pain the butt. But I suppose without Them there would be no intetviews at all! Anyway good info on Peat agreeing that bitters are effective for bile flow. Should be on the top of anyone’s list of things to try if they are having trouble with SIBO (gentian, dandelion, artichoke etc)
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals
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