High intake of vitamin B6 protects from Parkinson

[haidut]

I guess this will be news to the people on the forum given the well-known anti-prolactin effects of vitamin B6. Anti-prolatin drugs are common therapy for Parkinson disease. What is surprising that the authors of the study did not consider that mechanism as explanation of the protective effects. rather, they parroted back the same old story about vitamin B6 being an anti-oxidant. Kind of similar to the explanations given for vitamin E benefits. I guess to some people it is too much of a paradigm change to consider the hormone-like effects of vitamins that Ray has often written about.
Also, this study provides one reason why folic acid and vitamin B12 are not present in my formula Energin. I have seen a lot of data on folic acid and vitamin B12 both having positive correlation with cancer, and the lack of benefit of them in this study further bolsters my determination to not include them as part of my supplements. Incidentally, Ray has not written much about them in positive light either.


http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/7/9/7197

"...Pooled data revealed that there was no obvious difference in folate level between PD patients and healthy controls, and PD patients had lower level of vitamin B12 than controls. Available data suggested that higher dietary intake of vitamin B6 was associated with a decreased risk of PD (odds ratio (OR) = 0.65, 95% confidence intervals (CI) = (0.30, 1.01)), while no significant association was observed for dietary intake of folate and vitamin B12 and risk of PD. PD patients had lower level of vitamin B12 and similar level of folate compared with controls. Dietary intake of vitamin B6 exhibited preventive effect of developing PD based on the available data. As the number of included studies is limited, more studies are needed to confirm the findings and elucidate the underpinning underlying these associations."

"...Thus, it is speculated that there may exist an alternative mechanism underlying the protective effects of vitamin B6 for PD. Oxidative stress has been widely accepted to play an important role in the pathogenesis of PD [4,5]. Besides its function as a cofactor, vitamin B6 is reported to possess antioxidant activity [27,28]. Pyridoxine is found to exhibit singlet oxygen quench capacity comparable with those of highly efficient antioxidants vitamins C and E [27]. It was demonstrated that vitamin B6 deficiency can lead to oxidative stress in rat liver and heart, while vitamin B6 supplementation can alleviate oxidative stress [29,30]. For instance, antioxidant activity of vitamin B6 can delay homocysteine-induced atherosclerosis in rats [31]. Moreover, it was reported that in stroke disease B vitamins supplementation may possess antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activities independent of the hypothesized homocysteine-lowering activity [32]. Thus, based on these evidences, it is proposed that besides regulating homocysteine levels the antioxidant potential of vitamin B6 may lower the risk of PD through inhibiting oxidative stress."

Finally, a word on dose. While the study above did not define what is considered "high-intake" of vitamin B6, several studies have looked at effects of direct supplementation of B6 on Parkinson symptoms. The study below achieved resolution of most symptoms with 100mg B6 daily as pyridoxine. These effects should also be achievable with just 10mg P5P daily given the dose-response relationship of B6 vs P5P (10:1).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2269609

 

[messtafarian]

Haidut, I come from a different perspective here because I've been trying to correct some very upsetting neurological problems -- twitches, tremors, etc. These came on very suddenly after some kind of violent illness of unknown origin a year ago as you know. The "neurological vitamins" are b12, b6, b1, folate and copper and a frank deficiency in these can cause anemia but more worrisome -- disintegration of the spinal cord and sometimes irreversible CNS issues. B6, in fact, is noted more for its bad effects when there is too much of it as opposed to there not being enough.

How do you suggest people approach b12 if they've been found through medical testing to have low b12? This has actually never happened to me, btw, I just started taking hydroxycobalamin to get my levels slightly over the recommended serum reading of 500.

 

[haidut]

post 109259 Haidut, I come from a different perspective here because I've been trying to correct some very upsetting neurological problems -- twitches, tremors, etc. These came on very suddenly after some kind of violent illness of unknown origin a year ago as you know. The "neurological vitamins" are b12, b6, b1, folate and copper and a frank deficiency in these can cause anemia but more worrisome -- disintegration of the spinal cord and sometimes irreversible CNS issues. B6, in fact, is noted more for its bad effects when there is too much of it as opposed to there not being enough.

How do you suggest people approach b12 if they've been found through medical testing to have low b12? This has actually never happened to me, btw, I just started taking hydroxycobalamin to get my levels slightly over the recommended serum reading of 500.

I guess for people with deficiency supplementation with B12 would be warranted. What I meant is that taking vitamin B12 does not seem to have the beneficial hormonal-like effects that say B3, B6 biotin and B1 have in higher doses even in healthier people. I do not see many studies with say folic acid or vitamin B12 improving say memory or some kind of age-related dysfunction vs. B3, B1, B2, etc. For people with normal levels of B12 and folate extra supplementation does not seem to give extra benefit unlike the other vitamins Peat has written about.
Just my 2c.

 

[messtafarian]

That makes sense. There are huge fans of b12 online swearing that this alone cured their issues and there was no possible way to take too much -- however I don't think that's true. When I was *oversupplementing* and had a b12 reading of 1400 I was probably worse off. I think if you bombard the liver with that much it's just an extra stress on the liver to figure out what to do with it.

 

[tobieagle]

Also, this study provides one reason why folic acid and vitamin B12 are not present in my formula Energin. I have seen a lot of data on folic acid and vitamin B12 both having positive correlation with cancer, and the lack of benefit of them in this study further bolsters my determination to not include them as part of my supplements. Incidentally, Ray has not written much about them in positive light either.

This is a bit disturbing.
My guess would be, that for most people their b12 comes to a large degree from muscle meat.
So a higher b12 intake would translate into a higher meat consumption which would explain the correlation.
As for folate, I have no clue.
Maybe some vitamins do really have some unwanted hormonal effects if present in a high concentration.

 

[Lucas]

My Methyl Malonic Acid (MMA) results from a blood test was: 0,62 umol/L Ref: 0,08 – 0,56
So, out of range.
My B12 was 997 pg/ml without supplementing.
So, I read on the internet that a High MMA is an indication of b12 deficiency, even whit high blood b12, so I started supplementing with 1000 mcg of hydroxocobalamin per day, and on the last blood test my results was just : more than 2000 !!
The b12 don’t resolved main problem, that is low body temp, fatigue, hair loss and joint pain, I just feel that after b12 supplementing I have more energy for weight training ( I weight train 2 times a week for 1 hour each session).
But now that I read the danger of b12 supplementing , maybe I don’t had a deficiency, maybe the MMA is high because of a another thing.
Also, I have tremors on my arms and hands when close to sleeping, but this only occurs if I sleep in the supine position.

 

[haidut]

post 109330

Also, this study provides one reason why folic acid and vitamin B12 are not present in my formula Energin. I have seen a lot of data on folic acid and vitamin B12 both having positive correlation with cancer, and the lack of benefit of them in this study further bolsters my determination to not include them as part of my supplements. Incidentally, Ray has not written much about them in positive light either.

This is a bit disturbing.
My guess would be, that for most people their b12 comes to a large degree from muscle meat.
So a higher b12 intake would translate into a higher meat consumption which would explain the correlation.
As for folate, I have no clue.
Maybe some vitamins do really have some unwanted hormonal effects if present in a high concentration.

The studies I mentioned showing increased cancer risk correlated with high levels or direct supplementation with folic acid and B12.
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/200911 ... ancer-risk
http://www.everydayhealth.com/cancer/st ... -risk.aspx

I am sorry for not providing the links to the actual studies but I am near a computer right now and can't easily search for them.

 

[jaa]

Chris Kresser wrote an informative article on folic acid (supplement) vs folate (food) and how the former is more dangerous than the latter for increasing disease risk.

http://chriskresser.com/folate-vs-folic-acid/

 

[jb116]

Unless I missed it, neither study states what type of b 12. Cynocobalimin I'd presume to be more carcinogenic than anything, and then there is also cause effect mix up. Cancer could be releasing b12 increasing its levels as compensation to the disease.

 

[Donna57]

Haidut, I come from a different perspective here because I've been trying to correct some very upsetting neurological problems -- twitches, tremors, etc. These came on very suddenly after some kind of violent illness of unknown origin a year ago as you know. The "neurological vitamins" are b12, b6, b1, folate and copper and a frank deficiency in these can cause anemia but more worrisome -- disintegration of the spinal cord and sometimes irreversible CNS issues. B6, in fact, is noted more for its bad effects when there is too much of it as opposed to there not being enough.

How do you suggest people approach b12 if they've been found through medical testing to have low b12? This has actually never happened to me, btw, I just started taking hydroxycobalamin to get my levels slightly over the recommended serum reading of 500.

My Neurologist in Seattle told me they recommend anyone with neurological issues stay away from B6 it is detrimental to nerves. First time I had heard this and refreshing to hear a western medical doctor discuss. I typically stay away from western medical pill pushers but i have to go once a year and check in with a nueroligist for a rare neurological situation.

 

[MikeyFitz]

I guess this will be news to the people on the forum given the well-known anti-prolactin effects of vitamin B6. Anti-prolatin drugs are common therapy for Parkinson disease. What is surprising that the authors of the study did not consider that mechanism as explanation of the protective effects. rather, they parroted back the same old story about vitamin B6 being an anti-oxidant. Kind of similar to the explanations given for vitamin E benefits. I guess to some people it is too much of a paradigm change to consider the hormone-like effects of vitamins that Ray has often written about.
Also, this study provides one reason why folic acid and vitamin B12 are not present in my formula Energin. I have seen a lot of data on folic acid and vitamin B12 both having positive correlation with cancer, and the lack of benefit of them in this study further bolsters my determination to not include them as part of my supplements. Incidentally, Ray has not written much about them in positive light either.


Associations between B Vitamins and Parkinson’s Disease

"...Pooled data revealed that there was no obvious difference in folate level between PD patients and healthy controls, and PD patients had lower level of vitamin B12 than controls. Available data suggested that higher dietary intake of vitamin B6 was associated with a decreased risk of PD (odds ratio (OR) = 0.65, 95% confidence intervals (CI) = (0.30, 1.01)), while no significant association was observed for dietary intake of folate and vitamin B12 and risk of PD. PD patients had lower level of vitamin B12 and similar level of folate compared with controls. Dietary intake of vitamin B6 exhibited preventive effect of developing PD based on the available data. As the number of included studies is limited, more studies are needed to confirm the findings and elucidate the underpinning underlying these associations."

"...Thus, it is speculated that there may exist an alternative mechanism underlying the protective effects of vitamin B6 for PD. Oxidative stress has been widely accepted to play an important role in the pathogenesis of PD [4,5]. Besides its function as a cofactor, vitamin B6 is reported to possess antioxidant activity [27,28]. Pyridoxine is found to exhibit singlet oxygen quench capacity comparable with those of highly efficient antioxidants vitamins C and E [27]. It was demonstrated that vitamin B6 deficiency can lead to oxidative stress in rat liver and heart, while vitamin B6 supplementation can alleviate oxidative stress [29,30]. For instance, antioxidant activity of vitamin B6 can delay homocysteine-induced atherosclerosis in rats [31]. Moreover, it was reported that in stroke disease B vitamins supplementation may possess antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activities independent of the hypothesized homocysteine-lowering activity [32]. Thus, based on these evidences, it is proposed that besides regulating homocysteine levels the antioxidant potential of vitamin B6 may lower the risk of PD through inhibiting oxidative stress."

Finally, a word on dose. While the study above did not define what is considered "high-intake" of vitamin B6, several studies have looked at effects of direct supplementation of B6 on Parkinson symptoms. The study below achieved resolution of most symptoms with 100mg B6 daily as pyridoxine. These effects should also be achievable with just 10mg P5P daily given the dose-response relationship of B6 vs P5P (10:1).

Pyridoxine improves drug-induced parkinsonism and psychosis in a schizophrenic patient - PubMed

Thank you, sir. I was wondering about B12 not being included in Energin. As always, thanks for the explanation along with the documentation and research to back it up.