L-Carnitine Is Anti-thyroid

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haidut

haidut

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Such_Saturation said:
Shouldn't a little NAC be better than ingesting food rich in the sulfur aminoacids? I also tried liposomal glutathione but of course the doses were limited by price.

I prefer the NAC route too. Also, based on the studies I posted and their follow up once the glutathione was replenished in the elderly patients it remained high until they had an illness episode of some kind. So, it seems that you only need to do this once to replenish it and then it should last for a while. I did the full 2 weeks course as described in the study.
For people who do not want to take isolated aminos - egg whites have both glycine and cysteine in large amounts. So drinking a 16oz container of egg whites a day can achieve about the same (a carton of liquid pasteurized egg whites that I can buy from Safeway, Whole Foods, or Harris Teeter is equivalent to about 12 eggs). Costs about $4 a carton, so drinking one a day for 2 weeks is affordable for most people.
 

Javelina

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[/quote]

Low glutathione is pretty easily replenished by taking 10g of glycine and 10g of NAC for about 2 weeks. Here is the study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21795440

[/quote]

I looked at the study and they didn't say anything about using NAC, they used straight up cysteiene. I don't know if that's significantly different. Also FWIW, the stuff was administered intravenously, not orally.
 
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Low glutathione is pretty easily replenished by taking 10g of glycine and 10g of NAC for about 2 weeks. Here is the study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21795440

[/quote]

I looked at the study and they didn't say anything about using NAC, they used straight up cysteiene. I don't know if that's significantly different. Also FWIW, the stuff was administered intravenously, not orally.[/quote]

Javelina, I am not sure what study you are looking at but the study I posted has this language in the section "Metabolic study protocol":

"...Only the elderly subjects received oral treatment of 14 d with 0.81 mmol cysteine · kg−1 · d−1 (as n-acetylcysteine) and 1.33 mmol glycine · kg−1 · d−1 after which they were restudied."

So, the administration was indeed oral (not IV) and they used NAC. Am I missing something??

Also, if you convert the mols to mg you will get a dosage of 100mg/kg of bodyweight for each amino acid. This translates to about 10g of each amino acid for a human weighing 100kg. Most humans would weigh less, but to compensate for inefficiency of absorption in oral administration and to make it simpler for people I just said 10g of each amino acid as that should have an effect on almost everyone.
 
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escapesouth said:
When I first began bodybuilding there were all kinds of friends who swore by L carnatine and swore that it worked to help build muscle,growth, bone density and burn fat, hell I have even read claims it can increase sperm count in men. I will try anything once and I did try it for a 3 month period and I really saw no gains or improvements, but then I am old school and just try to eat well, I do take whey protein and creatine and some fish oil here and there but I just think L-carnatine is hyped way to much.

Can't hype anything more than fish oil :mrgreen:
 

NathanK

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haidut said:
Such_Saturation said:
Isn't that a lot of NAC? I remember someone calculating a human equivalent of seven grams to cause pulmonary hypertension. I usually make sure to take it only in advance of a stress, like during the week for example. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16439183

It's possible, I guess. I have seen warnings about NAC given IV and causing pulmonary hypertension. However, I have not seen any warnings about oral NAC. Also, the dose was split during the day into several intakes, and all the patients in the first study were elderly. If oral NAC has some bad effects I would imagine that it would have manifested at least in some of the elderly patients. None of them had side effects...
But it is a good warning. I would start with 3g/3g and then slowly tetrate up from there.

1. Thanks for the laughs for whomever called paleo darling carnitine thyroid kryptonite.

2. I'm no scientist, but I think this study shows that if you were to supplement cysteine (They didn't use NAC) then lower dosage may be more effective or you could be primarily converting to sulphate. Does that sound right?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1542000

J Nutr. 1992 Mar;122(3):420-7.
Cysteine concentration regulates cysteine metabolism to glutathione, sulfate and taurine in rat hepatocytes.

"...Low cysteine availability favored its utilization for glutathione; high cysteine availability favored its catabolism to sulfate and taurine. Under conditions of low cysteine availability (incubations with 0.2 mmol/L OTC), glutathione, sulfate and taurine production accounted for 90, 10 and 1%, respectively, of total metabolism. Under conditions of high cysteine availability (incubations with 1 mmol/L cysteine + bathocuproine disulfonate), glutathione, sulfate and taurine production accounted for 19, 47 and 34%, respectively, of total metabolism. Cysteine supplied as such and cysteine formed intracellularly from methionine were similarly partitioned. These studies demonstrate that methionine is not a superior substrate to cysteine for hepatic glutathione synthesis and that cysteine concentration (presumably intracellular cysteine concentration) has a major effect on the partitioning of cysteine sulfur to taurine in rat hepatocytes."
 

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This reminds me of a supp I used to take called zinc l carnosine to supposedly heal gut lining. Is it similar to carnitine?
 
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Janelle525 said:
post 89608 This reminds me of a supp I used to take called zinc l carnosine to supposedly heal gut lining. Is it similar to carnitine?

No, that supplement is a complex of zinc and the amino acid l-carnosine. Casnorine is itself a complex of beta alanine and histidine, and is not related to carnitine except that both of them are found in meat. Zinc carnosine is a legit supplement for things like ulcers and dyspepsia. In Japan it is a prescription drug.
 
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Where I live they give L-Acetylcarnitine for nerve issues :confused
 
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Such_Saturation said:
post 106428 Where I live they give L-Acetylcarnitine for nerve issues :confused

Interesting, considering it can easily cause seizures in overexcited people.
 
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johnwester130

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It's incredibly anti metabolic

although I have read lysine converts into carnitine

"Coconut oil is unusually rich in short and medium chain fatty acids. Shorter chain length allows fatty acids to be metabolized without use of the carnitine transport system. Mildronate, which I discussed in an article on adaptogens, protects cells against stress partly by opposing the action of carnitine, and comparative studies showed that added carnitine had the opposite effect, promoting the oxidation of unsaturated fats during stress, and increasing oxidative damage to cells. I suspect that a degree of saturation of the oxidative apparatus by short-chain fatty acids has a similar effect--that is, that these very soluble and mobile short-chain saturated fats have priority for oxidation, because they don't require carnitine transport into the mitochondrion, and that this will tend to inhibit oxidation of the unstable, peroxidizable unsaturated fatty acids. "
 

Thyroidhelp

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Hi Guys,

I am one of those hashimotos (hypo) people who fell for the acetyl la carnitine benefits of extra energy, and I would like to know if there is a way to reduce carnitine in the body?

It gave me heart palps, heart stopping for a couple of seconds, severe hypoglycemia, dizziness, severe fatigue, muscle weakness, twitching etc.

Any help appreciated :)
 

YuraCZ

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haidut said:
post 55316
Such_Saturation said:
Shouldn't a little NAC be better than ingesting food rich in the sulfur aminoacids? I also tried liposomal glutathione but of course the doses were limited by price.

I prefer the NAC route too. Also, based on the studies I posted and their follow up once the glutathione was replenished in the elderly patients it remained high until they had an illness episode of some kind. So, it seems that you only need to do this once to replenish it and then it should last for a while. I did the full 2 weeks course as described in the study.
For people who do not want to take isolated aminos -[highlight=yellow]egg whites have both glycine and cysteine in large amounts. So drinking a 16oz container of egg whites a day can achieve about the same (a carton of liquid pasteurized egg whites that I can buy from Safeway, Whole Foods, or Harris Teeter is equivalent to about 12 eggs).[/highlight] Costs about $4 a carton, so drinking one a day for 2 weeks is affordable for most people.

"deficiencies can be caused by consuming raw egg whites over a period of months to years. Egg whites contain high levels of avidin, a protein that binds biotin strongly. When cooked, avidin is partially denatured and binding to biotin is reduced. However one study showed that 30-40% of the avidin activity was still present in the white after frying or boiling.[1] Hence excessive cooked egg white consumption could possibly cause biotin deficiency."
 
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milk_lover

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According to this study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12493087), "excess dietary lysine depressed muscle creatinine concentration, but only in the presence of the lower concentrations of arginine and methionine." So does this mean lysine could possibly increase both triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) entry into the cell nuclei by depressing creatinine?
The same study said, "as expected, kidney arginase activity increased as dietary lysine increased." Does this mean lysine is increasing arginase/arginine degradation by the kidney? How will that affect amonia?
 

paymanz

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As for the «boosting energy effect», I can't figure out why this stuff is very usefull to treat very ill patients

Maybe those very ill patient are insulin resistant,due to FFA for example,and then carnitin at least help them beta oxidize better and make some energy.for short term they benefit...


I wondering if it help to clean up blood from FFAs then at some point it can improve insulin sensitivity?

This carnitin and good result with mildronate,also some studies show good result from carnitin supplement ,all of these are confusing.

But for sure I would not try oral carnitin supplement(due to fermentation),probably never try other routes either!
 
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tankasnowgod

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Just a random thought on Carnitine supplementation......

Most L-Carnitine sold is Carnitine Taurate or Carnipure, meaning it is bound with Taurine. Looking at Now brand L-Carnitine, 1 g of Carnitine comes from 1470mg of Carnitine Taurate. Soooo, is it possible the benefits people really see from Carnitine Supplementation are from Taurine? There are reported GI side effects at higher doses, and I know from personal experience that Taurine can cause the same sort of GI sides. Any thoughts? @haidut
 
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Just a random thought on Carnitine supplementation......

Most L-Carnitine sold is Carnitine Taurate or Carnipure, meaning it is bound with Taurine. Looking at Now brand L-Carnitine, 1 g of Carnitine comes from 1470mg of Carnitine Taurate. Soooo, is it possible the benefits people really see from Carnitine Supplementation are from Taurine? There are reported GI side effects at higher doses, and I know from personal experience that Taurine can cause the same sort of GI sides. Any thoughts? @haidut

It's definitely possible. Carnitine can also increase cortisol synthesis and initially that can make people feel quite good. Since it also excites the brain, that can also feel like a pick me up but in the long run people pay the price. There is no reason to use carnitine as supplement. Whatever needs people have can be easily met through food.
 

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