Vitamin A Is Anti-Estrogenic

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Unlike all the other studies I have seen this is an in vivo study, so it provides some guidelines on dosage. The
human equivalent dosage would be in the range of 200,000 - 250,000 IU of all-trans-retinoic acid (which is a metabolite of retinol). That is on the high end, but note that the treatment was for only one day. As such, higher doses of vitamin A can probably be used relatively safely as a quick way to bring estrogen under control in a day or two. Combining this with a higher dose of vitamin E will probably have additive effects, and you can add vitamin K2 but make you sure you take it at least 6-8 hours after taking vitamin E to avoid interference with absorption of either vitamin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17161848

"...EE increased uterine weight and the coinjection of ATRA with EE significantly suppressed this effect 3 and 24 h after treatment. mRNA expression was examined during this 24-h period and the mRNA expression levels of estrogen receptor alpha (ER alpha), retinoic acid receptor beta (RAR beta), retinoid X receptor gamma (RXR gamma) and cellular retinol-binding protein I (CRBP I) were found to have significantly increased in the ATRA+EE group compared with those in the EE group. This is the first report on the antiestrogenic activity of ATRA determined using an in vivo adult rat uterotrophic assay. The up-regulation of RAR or RXR mRNA expression level was probably responsible for the antiestrogenic activity of ATRA."
 

Kasper

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
671
Age
33
But in estroban you combine vitamin E and K2 right, are you sure it is better to take it separately?
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Kasper said:
But in estroban you combine vitamin E and K2 right, are you sure it is better to take it separately?

In the doses used in EstroBan there is no evidence that vitamin E and K2 inhibit each other's absoprtion. The interference happens at much higher doses when one of the vitamins fully saturates the transport mechanism in the body, which is presumed to be the same for both vitamins. So, if one vitamin is taken in too high a dose it will inhibit the absorption other one if taken at the same time. So, Estroban is safe.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Spondive said:
So how much retinol should one take to be equivalent to retinoic acid?

I don't know, but if you Google a bit for the conversion ratio I am sure you will find something. For now, you can try with the same dosage for retinol and see how it affects you. It would be best if one someone can do a blood test while taking it, but in the absense of that I think water retention would be a good surrogate for estrogen levels.
 

Spondive

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
357
Thanks Haidut. On a different subject by adjusting my t3 dose I can get water off or reduce edema. I seem to retain more water with a higher ratio of t4/t3
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Spondive said:
Thanks Haidut. On a different subject by adjusting my t3 dose I can get water off or reduce edema. I seem to retain more water with a higher ratio of t4/t3

I am not surprised. All the people that I know who took Synthroid (pure T4) had issues with water retention. Only after switching to Armour or taking aromatase inhibitors did their water problems subside.
 

Sheila

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
374
Any idea why the oedema happens with supplementary t4?

I think i also see this with higher doses of non standardised ndt (nutrimeds) which would perhaps suggest too much t4 compared to t3. But it could be due to another weak nutritional link, often more vit A seems to help here too.
thanks
Sheila
 

Sheila

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
374
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
haidut said:
Spondive said:
So how much retinol should one take to be equivalent to retinoic acid?

I don't know, but if you Google a bit for the conversion ratio I am sure you will find something. For now, you can try with the same dosage for retinol and see how it affects you. It would be best if one someone can do a blood test while taking it, but in the absense of that I think water retention would be a good surrogate for estrogen levels.

This thread seems to suggest the conversion efficiency is about 10%, so you'd need 10 times more retinol (2,000,000 IU) to get the 200,000 IU retinoic acid. That is a very high amount, so I'd stick to no more than 200,000 IU of retinol instead.
http://biology.stackexchange.com/questi ... -tretinoin
 

Kasper

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
671
Age
33
I use estroban for vitamin A,D, E and K2: https://squareup.com/market/idealabs-llc

I now take 16 drops with very good results @haidut. For some reason it seems to cure my toenais fungus. First I would put it on my toes, but with high doses internally it seems to have similar effects. Do you think 16 drops is too much for long term ?
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Kasper said:
I use estroban for vitamin A,D, E and K2: https://squareup.com/market/idealabs-llc

I now take 16 drops with very good results @haidut. For some reason it seems to cure my toenais fungus. First I would put it on my toes, but with high doses internally it seems to have similar effects. Do you think 16 drops is too much for long term ?

I would not know if it is too much since you need to check your blood levels of those vitamins. The only vitamin that Ray cautioned against explicitly is vitamin A, since without adequate vitamin E it can suppress thyroid function. But EstroBan has vitamin E so I am hoping it answers Ray's concerns. Also, at 16 drops per day I think you are still consuming only 200% of vitamin RDA. Again, a blood test would probably reveal where you stand on vitamin levels.
 

answersfound

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
991
Age
31
I always thought there was too much Vitamin A fear around here. Is it safe to say that one should increase Vitamin A intake until dandruff disappears? I currently take 25,000 IU per day and it has eliminated acne, but dandruff still lingers. Many have mentioned p5p and zinc which I have also tried, but it has not fixed the dandruff issue.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
answersfound said:
post 105325 I always thought there was too much Vitamin A fear around here. Is it safe to say that one should increase Vitamin A intake until dandruff disappears? I currently take 25,000 IU per day and it has eliminated acne, but dandruff still lingers. Many have mentioned p5p and zinc which I have also tried, but it has not fixed the dandruff issue.

There are studies on PubMed showing that at least 100,000 IU of oral vitamin A were needed to cure dandruff in some people. You may wan to ask foru member (and admin) Charlie about his experience with vitamin A and dandruff.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

answersfound

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
991
Age
31
haidut said:
post 105374
answersfound said:
post 105325 I always thought there was too much Vitamin A fear around here. Is it safe to say that one should increase Vitamin A intake until dandruff disappears? I currently take 25,000 IU per day and it has eliminated acne, but dandruff still lingers. Many have mentioned p5p and zinc which I have also tried, but it has not fixed the dandruff issue.

There are studies on PubMed showing that at least 100,000 IU of oral vitamin A were needed to cure dandruff in some people. You may wan to ask foru member (and admin) Charlie about his experience with vitamin A and dandruff.

Okay. So did they have to stay at 100k IU....or did they come down after it was eliminated.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
answersfound said:
post 105380
haidut said:
post 105374
answersfound said:
post 105325 I always thought there was too much Vitamin A fear around here. Is it safe to say that one should increase Vitamin A intake until dandruff disappears? I currently take 25,000 IU per day and it has eliminated acne, but dandruff still lingers. Many have mentioned p5p and zinc which I have also tried, but it has not fixed the dandruff issue.

There are studies on PubMed showing that at least 100,000 IU of oral vitamin A were needed to cure dandruff in some people. You may wan to ask foru member (and admin) Charlie about his experience with vitamin A and dandruff.

Okay. So did they have to stay at 100k IU....or did they come down after it was eliminated.

The studies I have seen used 100,000 for a month and then went down to 20,000 IU daily for another month and then just went back to whatever is in the food.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom