Can Someone Explain MThfr mutation LI5?

[messtafarian]

I've been reading that people who have this mutation have increased difficulty processing toxins out of the liver and are more prone to autoimmune diseases. It just really makes no sense to me -- does anybody understand this stuff ?

 

[mujuro]

Start here http://mthfr.net/what-is-mthfr/2011/11/04/

In essence, the MTHFR enzyme doesn't work efficiently, limiting the transformation of dietary folates into methyltetrahydrofolate, the primary active form that is used by cells to synthesize DNA and break down homocysteine into methionine. It's also a necessary precursor for the following cascade that leads to BH4 production, glutathione synthesis, and others. It is a rate limiting enzyme. To circumvent this, people who have this polymorphism take the active form, L-5-MTHF, with various cofactors necessary for the methyl cycle to operate, like methylcobalamin, P5P, riboflavin, etc.

It's been 2 years since I did my reading about MTHFR. Anyone else can chime in.

 

[Sea]

I thought Peat said it was all a bunch of nonsense. Fixing metabolism should repair the liver.

 

[messtafarian]

post 104422 I thought Peat said it was all a bunch of nonsense. Fixing metabolism should repair the liver.

That's what I thought, too.

 

[mujuro]

I like Peat, but SNPs are real. What he may have meant is that the body has an incredible level of redundancy built into it, and there are usually many ways to circumvent a problem without having to jump to supplements to correct them e.g. avoiding all cereals and grains and getting lots of dark leafy vegetables would probably solve the issues experienced by an MTHFR heterozygote. In this light I agree with him and I don't think that pathological SNPs are as bad as they're made out. It is a very, very immature field. One prominent researcher issued claims about restrictions on dietary protein if your CBS gene is mutated, and many people followed this, while all of the folks over on Phoenix Rising consistently challenged this assertion and claimed it was merely an assumption based on bad data. Websites like Heartfixer are extremely detailed, and frankly paint the entire topic in a very dark light, as if it is impossible to overcome all these biological roadblocks. Some people with SNPs that are supposed to present issues experience no issues at all, and vice versa. Many women who end up on the MTHFR internet boards got there because they were experiencing persistent miscarriages and eventually someone suggested they may have an MTHFR polymorphism.

So yeh, it is very early stages in the SNP world.

 

[Ella]

SNPs are not mutations but variant genes. I am Italian and a molecular biologist. I turned away from the genecentric view of disease after reading Peat. 50% of the Italian populations carry the mfthr SNP but have the lowest rate of neural tube defects, In the Asian population, the SNP is found in only 3% of the population. They are the lowest carriers of this SNP but have the highest rate of neural tube defects. Mediterrean diet is chock full of folate. I remember the Greek and Italian grandmothers of my childhood collecting leafy greens in the paddocks and along the roadside to cook up a batch of leafy greens. You would walk into either an Italian or Greek house and there would always be a pot of greens being boiled to death. None of those raw green juices for these Nannas. They were ridiculed for collecting these leafy greens and as children we were embrassed as others referred to them as peasants and uneducated. But hey, they knew folate and magnesium were important for their health. These women also did not smoke, touch alcohol, take birth control pills, take prescription medication besides prehaps ASPRO and coffee. Their energies were purely focussed 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days of the year slaving over a hot stove to ensure that their families received the best quality food. Most of these women were poor migrant women. Their lack of money did not prevent them from producing robust, healthy, beautiful looking children. The same can not be said of the current generation that have too much information but not enough inclination to cook real food and put together nourishing, delicious meals. Peat did say in one of his interviews that the best food, is food that is delicious to eat. Delicious foods gets the digestive juices flowing and yeah those Nannas sure did know how to turn bland green leafy vegies into delicious meals.

 

[Jake]

Suggestions or recipes on how to make greens palatable? :)

 

[messtafarian]

Is there any point to getting tested? I was reading on another board this makes a person " a bad detoxifier." I don't even understand why it matters if I am a bad detoxifier but I wonder if it's useful information.

 

[mujuro]

Is there any point to getting tested? I was reading on another board this makes a person " a bad detoxifier." I don't even understand why it matters if I am a bad detoxifier but I wonder if it's useful information.

http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutr...etrahydrofolate Reductase (Þ 5-Methyl-Folate)

This might be a little bit above ELI5, but based on our discussion of autonomic disorders, I think you'll cope fine. It's both in-depth and simplified. This is specifically about the C677T homozygous (+/+) polymorphism, which is considered to be the most problematic, closely followed by the homozygous (+/+) A1298C polymorphism.

The subheadings just above that section are informative as well. They are "generic" approaches to dealing with each polymorphism.

 

[XPlus]

post 104580 SNPs are not mutations but variant genes. I am Italian and a molecular biologist. I turned away from the genecentric view of disease after reading Peat. 50% of the Italian populations carry the mfthr SNP but have the lowest rate of neural tube defects, In the Asian population, the SNP is found in only 3% of the population. They are the lowest carriers of this SNP but have the highest rate of neural tube defects. Mediterrean diet is chock full of folate. I remember the Greek and Italian grandmothers of my childhood collecting leafy greens in the paddocks and along the roadside to cook up a batch of leafy greens. You would walk into either an Italian or Greek house and there would always be a pot of greens being boiled to death. None of those raw green juices for these Nannas. They were ridiculed for collecting these leafy greens and as children we were embrassed as others referred to them as peasants and uneducated. But hey, they knew folate and magnesium were important for their health. These women also did not smoke, touch alcohol, take birth control pills, take prescription medication besides prehaps ASPRO and coffee. Their energies were purely focussed 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days of the year slaving over a hot stove to ensure that their families received the best quality food. Most of these women were poor migrant women. Their lack of money did not prevent them from producing robust, healthy, beautiful looking children. The same can not be said of the current generation that have too much information but not enough inclination to cook real food and put together nourishing, delicious meals. Peat did say in one of his interviews that the best food, is food that is delicious to eat. Delicious foods gets the digestive juices flowing and yeah those Nannas sure did know how to turn bland green leafy vegies into delicious meals.

Me likey

 

[moss]

post 104422 I thought Peat said it was all a bunch of nonsense. Fixing metabolism should repair the liver.

I seem to remember reading/hearing that too and I think improving liver function first then enables improved metabolism.

post 104580 SNPs are not mutations but variant genes. I am Italian and a molecular biologist. I turned away from the genecentric view of disease after reading Peat. 50% of the Italian populations carry the mfthr SNP but have the lowest rate of neural tube defects, In the Asian population, the SNP is found in only 3% of the population. They are the lowest carriers of this SNP but have the highest rate of neural tube defects. Mediterrean diet is chock full of folate. I remember the Greek and Italian grandmothers of my childhood collecting leafy greens in the paddocks and along the roadside to cook up a batch of leafy greens. You would walk into either an Italian or Greek house and there would always be a pot of greens being boiled to death. None of those raw green juices for these Nannas. They were ridiculed for collecting these leafy greens and as children we were embrassed as others referred to them as peasants and uneducated. But hey, they knew folate and magnesium were important for their health. These women also did not smoke, touch alcohol, take birth control pills, take prescription medication besides prehaps ASPRO and coffee. Their energies were purely focussed 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days of the year slaving over a hot stove to ensure that their families received the best quality food. Most of these women were poor migrant women. Their lack of money did not prevent them from producing robust, healthy, beautiful looking children. The same can not be said of the current generation that have too much information but not enough inclination to cook real food and put together nourishing, delicious meals. Peat did say in one of his interviews that the best food, is food that is delicious to eat. Delicious foods gets the digestive juices flowing and yeah those Nannas sure did know how to turn bland green leafy vegies into delicious meals.

So very true!
Having lived in Italy many years ago being exposed to amazing fresh seasonal produce changed the way I viewed food permanently I get a sense of what you say Ella.
IMO the less mucked around the food the better.
Making a meal a feast (however large or small) and the more visually appealing a meal is the more the digestive juices are stimulated and you will have an easier time digesting your food. Honesty is an nutrient in itself and does wonders for the liver too.

post 104595 Suggestions or recipes on how to make greens palatable? :)

If you cook your greens really well (steam or saute or boil) with garlic if you can tolerate it, you can serve with thin shaves of parmesan or tossed in butter, or drizzle a little olive oil over this makes greens more palatable.

post 104599 Is there any point to getting tested? I was reading on another board this makes a person " a bad detoxifier." I don't even understand why it matters if I am a bad detoxifier but I wonder if it's useful information.

Messtafarian I wouldn't bother getting tested.
Know this is getting off track but I was wondering if you still have low ferritin levels?
Iron provides heat and energy and burns waste products and crucial to detoxifying.
My ferritin levels were below 5 some time back and I felt I literally lacked Iron in the Soul....
and the ability to fight the good fight.... It wasn't until I had a round of 5 intramuscualar iron injections that moved things forward. It messed with my emotions and the ability to take life head on. Ferritin levels have returned to normal and has made an enormous difference.

 

[messtafarian]

post 104599 Is there any point to getting tested? I was reading on another board this makes a person " a bad detoxifier." I don't even understand why it matters if I am a bad detoxifier but I wonder if it's useful information.

Messtafarian I wouldn't bother getting tested.
Know this is getting off track but I was wondering if you still have low ferritin levels?
Iron provides heat and energy and burns waste products and crucial to detoxifying.
My ferritin levels were below 5 some time back and I felt I literally lacked Iron in the Soul....
and the ability to fight the good fight.... It wasn't until I had a round of 5 intramuscualar iron injections that moved things forward. It messed with my emotions and the ability to take life head on. Ferritin levels have returned to normal and has made an enormous difference.[/quote]

Oddly,even though my ferritin levels have been at near-death levels and my doctor is continuously fussing about them I have never been offered injections. Since I've been reading Peat and under the impression that iron is "bad" I've simply carried on as usual thinking it was good to have low iron stores considering all the rotten things that can happen to a person with too much iron in their bodies. I've been rethinking that lately, but it's pretty typical for my doctors to offer me basically nothing.

I just ordered and sent out a Spectracell test that I paid for out of pocket to get all my micronutrients checked. Doc said no to both homocysteine and ceruplasmin.

 

[Sea]

Oddly,even though my ferritin levels have been at near-death levels and my doctor is continuously fussing about them I have never been offered injections. Since I've been reading Peat and under the impression that iron is "bad" I've simply carried on as usual thinking it was good to have low iron stores considering all the rotten things that can happen to a person with too much iron in their bodies. I've been rethinking that lately, but it's pretty typical for my doctors to offer me basically nothing.

I just ordered and sent out a Spectracell test that I paid for out of pocket to get all my micronutrients checked. Doc said no to both homocysteine and ceruplasmin.

You don't need iron injections. Low iron rarely has anything to do with having low levels of iron, it is caused by hypothyroidism.

Most tests are a waste of time unless they take blood out of you, which can be done for free via donation.

Just focus on your temperature and pulse rate and ignore everything else. Fixing the temperature/pulse resolves everything and there isn't any need to try and get some conventional diagnoses based on an inaccurate view of how the body works. Most people aren't lucky enough to ever find Ray Peat. Simply work on implementing his ideas and any health problems you have will disappear.