Thiamine Reduces Both Lactate And Ammonia

tara

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purebulk powder added to juice
 

johnwester130

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Such_Saturation said:
post 68643 I'm doing sulbutiamine but it gives nothing like the pure bliss that thiamine hydrochloride gives at high doses.

what bliss ??

social anxiety is relieved ? happiness ? and you took just regular thiamine supplements ?
 
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johnwester130 said:
post 101118
Such_Saturation said:
post 68643 I'm doing sulbutiamine but it gives nothing like the pure bliss that thiamine hydrochloride gives at high doses.

what bliss ??

social anxiety is relieved ? happiness ? and you took just regular thiamine supplements ?

No, imagine your lover being brought back to life or something. Imagine staring up at the sun and just crying tears of joy and there is some kind of orgasm of gratefulness inside your head. I personally only had that effect from thiamine the first few times but I also can attain it regularly on my own now. If I eat well.
 
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Spondive

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Thiamine and niacinamide at 500 mg to 500 mg twice a day with some form of sugar a has returned my liver enzymes almost to normal in I think it has been like 4 months.. I wish knew how to post my labs before and after easily
 

yomama

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Spondive said:
post 101642 Thiamine and niacinamide at 500 mg to 500 mg twice a day with some form of sugar a has returned my liver enzymes almost to normal in I think it has been like 4 months.. I wish knew how to post my labs before and after easily

can I ask did you suffer any specific liver condition/disease or it was just occasional abnormal level of liver enzymes?
 
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Spondive

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No I have had elevated liver enzymes since 2010 and an ultrasound that shows severe steatosis of the liver..I have tried a lot of things without much change until using thiamine and niacinamide at higher dosages on a regular basis..also I do get a sense of moments of extreme sense of well being that I haven't felt since I was a kid
 

johnwester130

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Such_Saturation said:
johnwester130 said:
post 101118
Such_Saturation said:
post 68643 I'm doing sulbutiamine but it gives nothing like the pure bliss that thiamine hydrochloride gives at high doses.

what bliss ??

social anxiety is relieved ? happiness ? and you took just regular thiamine supplements ?

No, imagine your lover being brought back to life or something. Imagine staring up at the sun and just crying tears of joy and there is some kind of orgasm of gratefulness inside your head. I personally only had that effect from thiamine the first few times but I also can attain it regularly on my own now. If I eat well.

did you take it with other supplements ?

and would it interfere with other supplements I take ? Like taurine, lysine, niacinamide
 
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johnwester130 said:
post 102077
did you take it with other supplements ?

and would it interfere with other supplements I take ? Like taurine, lysine, niacinamide

I think it could use up magnesium quicker and someone might have said something about B5 but I'm not sure. I did take it by itself the first time and ate a soft fried egg.
 
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PeatThemAll

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Giraffe said:
I experimented with 300 mg thiamin hydrochloride this morning and got some unexpected strong reactions. First thing I noticed was that my gut was moving more vigorous than usual. Each time I eat something the gut gets kind of indecisive... maybe I get diarrhea? maybe not? ... Went to Chinese massage and felt slightly nauseous during massage. Then my masseuse did something she has never done before: She gave my belly and kidneys a thorough detox massage. Now - 14 hours after I swallowed the B1 - I can feel that my kidneys work hard, and the maybe diarrhea/maybe not thing is still at work.

I wonder what is going on. Do I detox the thiamin? Or did the thiamin trigger that my body tries to get rid of something that does not belong there?

The body has a forward-looking (energy sparing) all-or-nothing way of calculating if it has *all* it needs (building blocks *and* energy) before starting to assemble proteins. Also, its use of vitamins as cofactors is akin to you car keys: you can have the best engine in the world and a tank full of fuel, but if a cofactor is missing (keys), the engine won't start.

Keeping these two principles in mind, it wouldn't surprise me that the former (thiamin detox) was actually the start of something put on hold for quite some time. It would also explain why, after a while, everything stabilizes, loses effect, or one loses interest for a food / supplement, as the metabolic queue of jobs has been cleared.

:2cents

Edit: Found this on Amazon.ca

Source: http://www.amazon.ca/PhysioLogics-B...UTF8&qid=1444468704&sr=8-13&keywords=thiamine

The carbohydrate in our bodies does nothing until it is activated (or ignited/burned) by a cooperating interlocking chain of metabolic systems. Thiamine is a prominent and non-replacable member. Thiamine does not burn as part of the fire but its presence is vital as a facilitator, technically called an enzyme or catalyst. The carbohydrate source for cellular energy becomes increasingly blocked and the body tries the fat stores and then protein, leading to muscle weakness (this can be a deficiency in other B vitamins, though).

One symptom is leg weakness with unsteady gait, eventually falling over (but this is also a symptom of B12 deficiency and other B vitamin deficiencies). Sometimes there is foot and/or wrist drop. Numbness is another symptom but, as with cardiac changes, can be due to other B deficiencies. The heart is almost always enlarged (which can be due to B3 or B12 deficiencies too) and there is tachycardia (resting pulse over 100). Heart enlargement usually precedes neurological changes. Gum disease is common (but this can be due to niacin/B3 or vitamin C deficiencies too).

Later there can be breathlessness on any activity (or even lying down) and chest palpitations (again, other B vitamin deficiencies can cause either). Sometimes edema, which may be associated with congestive heart failure. The subacute groups may also show a deficiency in other essential nutritional substances such as vitamin C, niacin (vitamin B3), vitamin B12 and vitamins A and E. Many such patients also suffer from protein deficiency, evidenced by leg ulcers of a type associated with protein deficiencies. They also become apathetic and listless.

Thiamine deficiency involves removal of energy from all tissues, glands and organs in the body. Metabolic systems in the body keep failing until eventually death occurs.
 
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Giraffe

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PeatThemAll said:
post 103652
Giraffe said:
I experimented with 300 mg thiamin hydrochloride this morning and got some unexpected strong reactions. First thing I noticed was that my gut was moving more vigorous than usual. Each time I eat something the gut gets kind of indecisive... maybe I get diarrhea? maybe not? ... Went to Chinese massage and felt slightly nauseous during massage. Then my masseuse did something she has never done before: She gave my belly and kidneys a thorough detox massage. Now - 14 hours after I swallowed the B1 - I can feel that my kidneys work hard, and the maybe diarrhea/maybe not thing is still at work.

I wonder what is going on. Do I detox the thiamin? Or did the thiamin trigger that my body tries to get rid of something that does not belong there?

The body has a forward-looking (energy sparing) all-or-nothing way of calculating if it has *all* it needs (building blocks *and* energy) before starting to assemble proteins. Also, its use of vitamins as cofactors is akin to you car keys: you can have the best engine in the world and a tank full of fuel, but if a cofactor is missing (keys), the engine won't start.

Keeping these two principles in mind, it wouldn't surprise me that the former (thiamin detox) was actually the start of something put on hold for quite some time. It would also explain why, after a while, everything stabilizes, loses effect, or one loses interest for a food / supplement, as the metabolic queue of jobs has been cleared.

:2cents
Thanks for your reply. I agree with what you wrote about missing cofactors.

Looking back, I would advise anyone who suspects insufficient liver or kidney function to read into the side-effects and contraindications of carbonic anhydrase inhibitors before trying high doses of thiamine.
(Also see Thiamine is a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor as effective as acetazolamide.)

I have not fully figured out what was going on. Maybe I was low in alkalines.

It might be that I do not tolerate well the HCl form at the moment (I have not tried yet thiamine pyrophosphate or allithiamine). Prior to that 300mg-experiment I have for a couple of weeks taken 10-25 mg thiamine HCl with carbohydrate-rich meal. I have once tried 300 mg spread over the day (3 x 100 mg) with no adverse effect other than a bad taste shortly after taking it. On a later occasion - after that experiment - I got those bowels reactions from a small dose of Haidut's Energin used topically (it contained ~ 9 mg thiamine HCl). The bowel reaction this time was only very short; the overall the effect was positive ... the only negatives were a goaty smell and bad taste.

I'd like to understand the chloride-bicarbonate-connection better.

After that experiment my kidneys complained for weeks. Massaging them always helped for a short while. Surprisingly the kidney ailments cleared after I tried taurine. Carrot and activated charcoal helped with the upset gut.
 
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DaveFoster

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haidut

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@haidut

Could you clarify if this is a good source for thiamine HCl? : Thiamine hydrochloride reagent grade, ≥99% (HPLC) | Sigma-Aldrich

The SA product does not meet USP standards, but here's one from Spectrum Chemical that does: Thiamine Hydrochloride, USP | 67-03-8 | TH116 | Spectrum Chemical

Do you know of any good thiamine sources that are unlikely to be allergenic/impure, such as what you use in Energin?

The SA product looks good and is probably even purer than the Spectrum one. The USP certification is more focused on lack of toxic elements than purity. Reagent grade is often much purer as the chemical is used for synthesis of other chemicals or for specific reactions and tests and you don't want any contamination in those. The Spectrum product is also probably good but I have not used it personally.
 

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The SA product looks good and is probably even purer than the Spectrum one. The USP certification is more focused on lack of toxic elements than purity. Reagent grade is often much purer as the chemical is used for synthesis of other chemicals or for specific reactions and tests and you don't want any contamination in those. The Spectrum product is also probably good but I have not used it personally.
Thanks haidut; I'd be more concerned over toxicity over heavy metals in particular rather than purity, although they're related.
 

Texon

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How about benfotiamine which is also fat soluble? This link...
Do You Have Beri-Beri? - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
mentions a condition called "Berri Berri Modernus". This article may generate some controversy in this venue, but I think it's worth considering. I had a blood test about three years ago that showed my b1 to be extremely low. Neither the functional MD or I had any idea of the importance of the test result. I do now after a lot of suffering unfortunately..
 
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haidut

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@haidut
How about benfotiamine which is also fat soluble? This link...
Do You Have Beri-Beri? - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
mentions a condition called "Berri Berri Modernus". This article may generate some controversy in this venue, but I think it's worth considering. I had a blood test about three years ago that showed my b1 to be extremely low. Neither the functional MD or I had any idea of the importance of the test result. I do now after a lot of suffering unfortunately..

I don't think there is anything benfothiamine can do that regular thiamine cannot also achieve. In fact, the human study on high dose oral thiamine found that after taking a specific oral dose for a week you achieve the same blood concentrations as the same dose given IV. So, if you take 300mg for a week you will achieve the same blood levels as 300mg IV thiamine, which is considered a hefty dose even in a hospital setting. Given your low levels I think it would worth asking your doctor about possibly supplementing with some thiamine for a few weeks and then retesting.
 

Texon

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I don't think there is anything benfothiamine can do that regular thiamine cannot also achieve. In fact, the human study on high dose oral thiamine found that after taking a specific oral dose for a week you achieve the same blood concentrations as the same dose given IV. So, if you take 300mg for a week you will achieve the same blood levels as 300mg IV thiamine, which is considered a hefty dose even in a hospital setting. Given your low levels I think it would worth asking your doctor about possibly supplementing with some thiamine for a few weeks and then retesting.

Good info thanks. Btw when I posted above, I couldn't recall the name of the test, but I do now (Nutreval). Given that the test cost over $600, I think I will just supplement and forego testing. I may check into the allithiamine from Vitamin Shoppe too. I've heard good things about it but have never tried it.
 
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Good info thanks. Btw when I posted above, I couldn't recall the name of the test, but I do now (Nutreval). Given that the test cost over $600, I think I will just supplement and forego testing. I may check into the allithiamine from Vitamin Shoppe too. I've heard good things about it but have never tried it.

If you are going to use any of the so-called "fat soluble B1" like benfo and alli, I would go with allithiamine as benfothiamine was shown to NOT raise brain levels of B1 and it is the brain that needs B1 the most.
 

Texon

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If you are going to use any of the so-called "fat soluble B1" like benfo and alli, I would go with allithiamine as benfothiamine was shown to NOT raise brain levels of B1 and it is the brain that needs B1 the most.
Well I have to defer to you on that one as I am not a scientist. Also thought it worth mentioning I am not a Bill Sardi proponent, and I know he has a heavily vested interest in resveratrol. That said, his info at the link above seemed interesting...Also, if I may, what is your opinion of this...
Comparative autoradiographic investigations on the tissue distribution of benfotiamine versus thiamine in mice. - PubMed - NCBI
 

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