ELI5 [dangers Of Vegetable Oils]

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I know this isn't Reddit, but I'm interested in how you would explain, for example, the dangers of vegetable oils to a very young person who wouldn't understand scientific terms.

I pick vegetable oils because they seem to be, more than any other substance, anathema to Ray Peat. But it would also be interesting to hear your simplest explanations of other features of Ray Peat's dietary guidance.
 

charlie

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For those who don't reddit.......

ELI5 = Explain to me like I am 5 years old.
 
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Isn't taste an acceptable explanation for a five-year-old?
 
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CoolTweetPete

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I would have to agree with SuchSaturation. Unless this particular 5 year old enjoys cruciferous vegetables. :|
 
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jaa

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Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95824/ Isn't taste an acceptable explanation for a five-year-old?

I don't think this is a smart way to go. Some people like the taste of veg oil even if the majority of people on this forum do not. You could be undermining your position by building it on an unstable subjective foundation before the real meat and potatoes discussion even starts.
 
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CoolTweetPete

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I like using the perspective of a plant to explain this to people I know when they ask as well.

What is the biological objective of everything on this planet? Reproduction.

Where are the reproductive organs of a plant (seeds)? The fruit.

These plants are essentially offering up a handheld fructose-filled treat to any mammal interested in undertaking the task of distributing their seeds (via feces) and thereby propagating their DNA.

In our infinite wisdom we decided to chop down, boil, and eat the plant too when it could have continued to provide fruit for years to come. Essentially ruining a symbiotic relationship.
 
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A "meat and potatoes" discussion is not the way a five-year-old does it. You are furthermore negating his inborn ability to experience good food.
 
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thyrulian

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waldenpond said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95822/ I know this isn't Reddit, but I'm interested in how you would explain, for example, the dangers of vegetable oils to a very young person who wouldn't understand scientific terms.

"They take away your energy, making video games less fun."

My nephew often bugs me to race with him, so I've had him understand that my lack of interest is due to poor health/energy deficiency and for us to maintain interest, we must avoid such ungodly energy-zappers.

Leading by example. :cool: :cry: :lol:
 
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jaa

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Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95829/ A "meat and potatoes" discussion is not the way a five-year-old does it. You are furthermore negating his inborn ability to experience good food.

Fine. You can't have a meat and potatoes discussion and ELI5. That doesn't make it smart to explain things that may be contradictory to their experience. And I'm not negating anyone's inborn ability to experience good food. People have different tastes. Just because something tastes good does not make it healthy, and vice versa. Some people like the taste of vegetable oils or at least don't find them gross. That's why the restaurant industry can get away with using them. I find the "RP food tastes great and everything that isn't Peaty taste like junk" reasoning to be a bizarre one. It doesn't make Peat's opinions generally right or wrong and I don't find it fits my personal experience and it does not seem to mesh well with the eating habits of society at large.
 
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Well if vegetable oil tastes good in a dish thanks to monosodium glutamate, then that isn't really food, is it? It's a food additive. If a child is hungry, it's your job to expose him to food and food only.
 
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Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95836/ Well if vegetable oil tastes good in a dish thanks to monosodium glutamate, then that isn't really food, is it? It's a food additive. If a child is hungry, it's your job to expose him to food and food only.

I've never actually tasted vegetable oil on its own. Is it particularly unpleasant to the taste?
 
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waldenpond said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95837/
Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95836/ Well if vegetable oil tastes good in a dish thanks to monosodium glutamate, then that isn't really food, is it? It's a food additive. If a child is hungry, it's your job to expose him to food and food only.

I've never actually tasted vegetable oil on its own. Is it particularly unpleasant to the taste?

It doesn't taste like anything!
 
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tara

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Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95836/ Well if vegetable oil tastes good in a dish thanks to monosodium glutamate, then that isn't really food, is it? It's a food additive. If a child is hungry, it's your job to expose him to food and food only.

Ideally, but not always possible unless you force undesirable social isolation, and you have a great deal of time available, and you have serious stamina.
And doesn't eliminate the usefulness of understanding something about why.
 
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tara

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thyrulian said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95831/
waldenpond said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95822/ I know this isn't Reddit, but I'm interested in how you would explain, for example, the dangers of vegetable oils to a very young person who wouldn't understand scientific terms.

"They take away your energy, making video games less fun."

My nephew often bugs me to race with him, so I've had him understand that my lack of interest is due to poor health/energy deficiency and for us to maintain interest, we must avoid such ungodly energy-zappers.

Leading by example. :cool: :cry: :lol:
I like this. :)
 
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tara said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95895/
Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95836/ Well if vegetable oil tastes good in a dish thanks to monosodium glutamate, then that isn't really food, is it? It's a food additive. If a child is hungry, it's your job to expose him to food and food only.

Ideally, but not always possible unless you force undesirable social isolation, and you have a great deal of time available, and you have serious stamina.
And doesn't eliminate the usefulness of understanding something about why.

Ok, no job is always possible, but the why shouldn't be restricted by the way the adult approaches the thing. If it is required a "Peatish" explanation, then there must be readiness to accept something out of the ordinary. The subjective sensory experience is empty with an industrial seed oil. The young person is capable of seeing this if given the time and the space.
 
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tara

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Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95902/
tara said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95895/
Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95836/ Well if vegetable oil tastes good in a dish thanks to monosodium glutamate, then that isn't really food, is it? It's a food additive. If a child is hungry, it's your job to expose him to food and food only.

Ideally, but not always possible unless you force undesirable social isolation, and you have a great deal of time available, and you have serious stamina.
And doesn't eliminate the usefulness of understanding something about why.

Ok, no job is always possible, but the why shouldn't be restricted by the way the adult approaches the thing. If it is required a "Peatish" explanation, then there must be readiness to accept something out of the ordinary. The subjective sensory experience is empty with an industrial seed oil. The young person is capable of seeing this if given the time and the space.

I agree that the why should not only be from the typical adult approach, and there are some sound instincts at play when good food is available and fraudulant 'food' is not.

But so far my child would pick store-bought PUFA-soaked potato crisps (which I heavily restrict but don't completely ban) over my fresh home-made coconut oil oven-baked chips any day. And the other one wants peanut butter on celery now and then (if it were frequent I'd restrict it, but it's not). Not ruling out that my cooking ability is a significant factor, of course. :)
 
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Giraffe

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waldenpond said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95822/ I know this isn't Reddit, but I'm interested in how you would explain, for example, the dangers of vegetable oils to a very young person who wouldn't understand scientific terms.
What is this thread actually about? Do you want to have things explained in simple terms? Or do you want to explain it to a five-year-old?

I wouldn't discuss the health impact of certain foods with small children... unless the kid is allergic or something... You can provide the child with healthy food. No need to risk orthorexia.
 
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tara said:
Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95902/
tara said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95895/
Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95836/ Well if vegetable oil tastes good in a dish thanks to monosodium glutamate, then that isn't really food, is it? It's a food additive. If a child is hungry, it's your job to expose him to food and food only.

Ideally, but not always possible unless you force undesirable social isolation, and you have a great deal of time available, and you have serious stamina.
And doesn't eliminate the usefulness of understanding something about why.

Ok, no job is always possible, but the why shouldn't be restricted by the way the adult approaches the thing. If it is required a "Peatish" explanation, then there must be readiness to accept something out of the ordinary. The subjective sensory experience is empty with an industrial seed oil. The young person is capable of seeing this if given the time and the space.

I agree that the why should not only be from the typical adult approach, and there are some sound instincts at play when good food is available and fraudulant 'food' is not.

But so far my child would pick store-bought PUFA-soaked potato crisps (which I heavily restrict but don't completely ban) over my fresh home-made coconut oil oven-baked chips any day. And the other one wants peanut butter on celery now and then (if it were frequent I'd restrict it, but it's not). Not ruling out that my cooking ability is a significant factor, of course. :)

Very interesting. Did they ever want something similar before trying those particular items? I also saw that guy who does youtube videos based on Ray Peat, he has a very good strategy and his children became uninterested in the fast food quite naturally.
 
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tara

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Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95921/
tara said:
Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95902/
tara said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95895/
Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95836/ Well if vegetable oil tastes good in a dish thanks to monosodium glutamate, then that isn't really food, is it? It's a food additive. If a child is hungry, it's your job to expose him to food and food only.

Ideally, but not always possible unless you force undesirable social isolation, and you have a great deal of time available, and you have serious stamina.
And doesn't eliminate the usefulness of understanding something about why.

Ok, no job is always possible, but the why shouldn't be restricted by the way the adult approaches the thing. If it is required a "Peatish" explanation, then there must be readiness to accept something out of the ordinary. The subjective sensory experience is empty with an industrial seed oil. The young person is capable of seeing this if given the time and the space.

I agree that the why should not only be from the typical adult approach, and there are some sound instincts at play when good food is available and fraudulant 'food' is not.

But so far my child would pick store-bought PUFA-soaked potato crisps (which I heavily restrict but don't completely ban) over my fresh home-made coconut oil oven-baked chips any day. And the other one wants peanut butter on celery now and then (if it were frequent I'd restrict it, but it's not). Not ruling out that my cooking ability is a significant factor, of course. :)

Very interesting. Did they ever want something similar before trying those particular items?
Not sure. I've only been reading Peat for ~3 years. When they were younger, I though peanut butter and celery were food, and sucrose was not.

Such_Saturation said:
I also saw that guy who does youtube videos based on Ray Peat, he has a very good strategy and his children became uninterested in the fast food quite naturally.
Do you remember a name or a title I can search for? That sounds interesting.

Mine will also at times happily eat fruit, meat, mashed or boiled potatoes with butter, cheese, fruit smoothies made with milk, etc, so it's not all bad. :)
 
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