High Dose Niacinamide Experiment

Peata,

At the other end of the spectrum there are people who experience nausea and loss of appetite on a dose of 1,000 mg three times a day. When this happens, if these people are tested they will have elevated liver enzymes that correlate closely with the sensation of nausea. These people are very sensitive to niacinamide and they need to take less. As their nausea clears their liver enzymes will return to normal and never has there been any liver damage resulting from this transient elevation of liver enzymes.

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Source

OK, thanks.

I've been taking random amounts the last couple days of my 100 mg. tablets. I think I will just use 100 mg. day from now on, unless I feel like I need more for an anxiety spell or something (which hopefully won't happen).

I think 290 is pretty good and the downward trend is good too.
If 270 is associated with longevity, it can not be bad for someone younger.
Weight loss can temporarily( several months) increase cholesterol.
Your trig is not that high either.

Mittir said:

I think 290 is pretty good and the downward trend is good too.
If 270 is associated with longevity, it can not be bad for someone younger.
Weight loss can temporarily( several months) increase cholesterol.
Your trig is not that high either.

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Hey thanks Mittir. I have another test ordered, but I might wait till next week to get it done. Definitely interested to see what it is.

So niacinamide might....

-reduce serotonin
-keep free fatty acid out of circulation
-have sedative/anti-anxiety effect

Anything else or did I get something wrong?

-powerful anti-inflammatory
-possibly cure Alzheimer’s
-improves glucose metabolsism
-possibly cures schizophrenia, bipolar, and other issues like that

It does not look like it reduces cholesterol from what studies say. However, I would think it would because metabolism should be increasing from all the good stuff it does.

Charlie said:

Haidut, should the dose be split up like I am doing or all at once?

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Initially, I'd recommend splitting the 4,000mg in several dosages of 1500mg each, and maybe make the last one 2,000mg (at night). At 2,000mg you should have a very good night sleep with no awakenings and NO dreams. I am not sure where Peat mentioned that, but vivid dreams happen when the body is not in deep sleep and is usually caused by too much serotonin/melatonin. Niacinamide, for me, brings back the childhood quality of sleep - go to bed and wake up in the morning in the same position I fell asleep. Only magnesium bicarbonate (at dosage 500mg elemental magnesium) has managed to do that for me other than niacinamide. It is also achievable with progesterone but, for me at least, progesterone acts like a true general anesthesia - knocks me out but when I wake up I feel like I have not been sleeping or something. For restful sleep do not take more than 300mg oral progesterone (I am using micronized pill product from Europe called Utrogestan).
Anyways, I am digressing here. If you feel OK with the split dosages, then add some of them up. So, instead of doing 3 divided doses do two doses of 2,000mg each. Once you are OK with that then start adding more to the dosage you take before bed. So, a third dosage would be 1500mg during the day and 2500mg at night. Next day would be 1000mg during day and 3000mg at night. Do that until you can take 4,000mg at night in one sitting. See how that affects you. If it's all rozy and good then see if you can check yourself for signs of reduced serotonin. Constipation is a very good sign, but it usually only tells you about gut serotonin, which is still good to know. Many people on this forum have gut issues, and I also posted studies that reducing specifically gut serotonin is VERY anabolic for the bones. It even reverses established osteoporosis. I certainly got constipated on my niacinamide. LotioCrafter sells a niacinamide powder so I am using that for my self-studies. The first time I used high dose niacinamide in a pill form from the the local store I got a visit from the liquid brown fairy.
The study I posted says that Human Equivalent Dose (HED) of 4,000mg manages to lower moderately elevated levels of serotonin in all of the rats. So, these were rats with artificially elevated serotonin. Can't remember the exact plasma levels but I did do some calculations on my own and translating them to humans would be in the range of someone taking SSRI for years. So, a dose of 4,000mg would be good for someone to get over their years of SSRI (ab)use.
A dose of 8,000mg fully abolished ALL serotonin effects in ALL rats who had serotonin levels twice as high as the rats in the 4,000mg group, and I think the plasma levels were over 70% lower. That would be the equivalent of stopping in its tracks a case of full blown serotonin syndrome in a human.
At that dose the rats were VERY sedated and so was I for the next day or so, but the effects do wear off fairly quickly and it's not like hangover where after drinking you have to face hell the next day. With this, you just spend a day in mellow-dreamy-land and the following day you are back to normal with a bit of side effects of much calmer temper. I used to get annoyed at things like people chewing loudly or walking slowly in front me on a busy sidewalk. Now, I don't even notice it. Not sure if it's a good thing though...At work they kinda expect to see me (and everybody else) always on edge and when you are floating effortlessly around, suddenly everyone notices and says you are acting weirdly calm, like a storm is coming afterwards.
Anyways, just my impressions. Very curious to hear your results!

P.S. For the especially adventurous, after you get used to the high doses of niacinamide I'd add some BCAA (5g) and some L-tyrosine (3g) for an even stronger kick. I would take that dose with EACH dose of niacinamide. So, if you are taking 4,000mg once a day in the evening then just take the BCAA/tyrosine combo once. If you take more but lower doses of niacinamide during day take the 5g of BCAA and 3g of tyrosine with each dose. The BCAA/tyrosine combo will lower the amount of serotonin produced and the niacinamide will negate any effects serotonin has on any tissues and lower its levels even more.
But one thing at a time. Niacinamide log first and then maybe we add the BCAA/tyrosine.

Haidut,

In your experience with the Niacinamide thus far, do you still experience the benefits once you stop supplementation or is it necessary to continue with it in order to reap these benefits?

caroline said:

Haidut,

In your experience with the Niacinamide thus far, do you still experience the benefits once you stop supplementation or is it necessary to continue with it in order to reap these benefits?

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To me niacinamide is more like a mind drug (pretty much like LSD was back in 60s) that you can take after a hectic day and it would immediately stop the stress response (if taken properly with enough sugar), and reverse the mental (and some of the physical) damage the stress that day did to you. If you that study on high dose niacinamide it says that niacinamide acts like a true serotonin inverse agonist on all serotonin "receptors". That's pretty much how Ray described LSD in one of his articles - i.e. "LSD is a powerful serotonin (approximate) antagonist".
A lot of that hectic day damage is concentrated in the stomach (where over 90% of serotonin is synthesized) and stomach issues like IBD and Chron's are known to have elevated serotonin causing bizarre synptoms like crazy/psychotic racing thoughts. Since niacinamide seems for me to decrease gut serotonin I reserve the high dose of niacinamide for those purposes - i.e. normalize mental health and gut health after a truly hectic day. Btw, for me the effect does NOT wear off. I mean, the effect after a high dose of niacinamide does wear off the next day but the next dose does not have to be larger to somehow compensate for me getting used to it. Then again, I only use the high doses (6,000mg-8,000mg) in extreme cases when I feel like I do need the extra punch.
Aside from that I take "lower" daily dosage of it that are still higher than what Ray mentions. I am taking the vitamin B "energy punch", which (as I mentioned to caroline) for me comes comes down to taking two doses (one in morning and one in evening) of the following:

Niacinamide: one capsule 500mg
Thiamine: 5 capsules x 300mg each for a total of 1,500mg
Riboflavin: 2 capsules x 100mg in each for 200mg total
B comples combo capsule: has 5mg B6, 5mg B5, 500mcg biotin, etc.

So, my "normal" niacinamide intake is 1,000mg daily (500mg morning and 500mg evening) as part of the vitamin B regimen. I know that seems a lot to some people but I am convinced that it is the niacinamide that got me from a pre-diabetic state of full ketosis back to sugar oxidation. I was on paleo diet for about 2 years and when I stopped I would still taste the acetone on my lips and my sweat would smell like ketones even when I was drinking pure sugar. People were noticing and asking if I use nail polish, it was that bad of a ketosis state. So, about 6 months after my flirt with niacinamide things normalized. It could have been the diet as well, but every time I would take a 500mg niacinamide pill the ketone smell/taste would go away in 30min-60min. So, in hindsight everything is 20/20 I guess.

Haidut, sincerely appreciate all the info and advice.

Quick update, yesterday at around 7:30pm I got insanely hungry. And when I ate I ended up eating twice as much as I usually do. And then I felt like I could have probably ate some more but didn't. An hour before I got hungry I had sugar and milk so I do not think it was my blood sugar dropping but I dont know.

I came in late last night and ended up taking an extra 500 mgs so a total of 4500 mgs yesterday. I feel a bit calmer but also with a bit of underlying anxiety. Not sure what thats about but the anxiety seems to be going away now. Feeling a bit tired today but been having too many lates night which I plan on putting the stop on, so things should be getting back to normal for me in that regard.

I might decide to go with 5000 mgs today and see if I can get the super sedated feeling going on.

For the record, I only get sedated when I take 4,000mg and higher of niacinamide in ONE dose. If I spread it out I don't get sedated, so if I take say 2,000mg three times a day for a total of 6,000mg then I don't get sedated. The old study I posted also used bolus (i.e. one big dose) and that's what caused the sedation. With multiple doses niacinamide has a half life of several hours and most of it gets converted to NAD by the time you take the next dose. With a single high dose half-half can be 12-24 hours. But, get used to the high dose using split doses first and then take one big one with a lot of sugar.
Also, I do get the ravenous appetite as well from taking it so at least there is some correlation between what you and I experiencing.

haidut, you take a lot of vitamin A (70,000) compared to most. Do you use Nutrisorb?

haidut said:

For the record, I only get sedated when I take 4,000mg and higher of niacinamide in ONE dose. If I spread it out I don't get sedated, so if I take say 2,000mg three times a day for a total of 6,000mg then I don't get sedated. The old study I posted also used bolus (i.e. one big dose) and that's what caused the sedation. With multiple doses niacinamide has a half life of several hours and most of it gets converted to NAD by the time you take the next dose. With a single high dose half-half can be 12-24 hours. But, get used to the high dose using split doses first and then take one big one with a lot of sugar.

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Ok gotcha. Gonna keep the split dose for a few days then try the bolus dose.

Also, I do get the ravenous appetite as well from taking it so at least there is some correlation between what you and I experiencing.

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Yeh that was pretty interesting.

Been nauseous on and off today. Up to 2500 mgs so far. Considering stopping at 4000 mgs if the nausea does not go away. I planned on going to 5000 mgs but not sure about that now.

Charlie said:

Been nauseous on and off today. Up to 2500 mgs so far. Considering stopping at 4000 mgs if the nausea does not go away. I planned on going to 5000 mgs but not sure about that now.

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Yeah, I had that too initially. I think somebody posted a quote from Hoffer about people feeling nausea due to elevated liver enzymes. The recommendation is to stop and wait to subside, then try to (carefully) work your dose up to that level again until you are comfortable. Elevated enzymes normalize in 1-2 days and people have been slowly tetrated up to 10g a day in some cases.
Now you know why I recommended starting slow and with split dosage and then slowly combining them
Anyways, give it a rest and maybe you can revisit. Like I said before, to me niacinamide is just like LSD and it acts in a very similar way. Nausea is common for first time LSD users as well.
If you just want to reduce serotonin, take gelatin with some BCAA and tyrosine as supplements and you actually lower your serotonin synthesis since it interferes with the absorption of tryptophan from food and blood.
Keep us posted. For me it was a very good learning experience b/c I learned how much I can mess with my body.

Took 5,000 mg at once about 2 hours ago. Was prepared for stupor, but it is not having that effect on me. Information is going in smoothly. Reading complex passages and comprehension is improved. Actual vision (as in sight) is clearer as well. Heightened clarity--obvious due to accuracy on the passages, despite not being in top form, not having slept more than 5 hours the prior night due to having to help out a friend with moving.

haidut said:

Charlie said:

Been nauseous on and off today. Up to 2500 mgs so far. Considering stopping at 4000 mgs if the nausea does not go away. I planned on going to 5000 mgs but not sure about that now.

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Yeah, I had that too initially. I think somebody posted a quote from Hoffer about people feeling nausea due to elevated liver enzymes. The recommendation is to stop and wait to subside, then try to (carefully) work your dose up to that level again until you are comfortable. Elevated enzymes normalize in 1-2 days and people have been slowly tetrated up to 10g a day in some cases.
Now you know why I recommended starting slow and with split dosage and then slowly combining them
Anyways, give it a rest and maybe you can revisit. Like I said before, to me niacinamide is just like LSD and it acts in a very similar way. Nausea is common for first time LSD users as well.
If you just want to reduce serotonin, take gelatin with some BCAA and tyrosine as supplements and you actually lower your serotonin synthesis since it interferes with the absorption of tryptophan from food and blood.
Keep us posted. For me it was a very good learning experience b/c I learned how much I can mess with my body.

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I will probably push on for one more day, and see how it goes. I sincerely appreciate all your advice though so please dont stop! lol I too like to push my body to see the effects and what nots. I am thinking my nausea is worse then it should be because I am super tired from having to many late nights this week. Going to bed early tonight hopefully.

caroline said:

Took 5,000 mg at once about 2 hours ago. Was prepared for stupor, but it is not having that effect on me. Information is going in smoothly. Reading complex passages and comprehension is improved. Actual vision (as in sight) is clearer as well. Heightened clarity--obvious due to accuracy on the passages, despite not being in top form, not having slept more than 5 hours the prior night due to having to help out a friend with moving.

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Dang girl!! Making me feel like a lightweight now!

Thats so cool about being much more clearer. Please keep updating!!

Anyone get warm face and hands?

Btw, I have been researching high dose niacinamide and I feel confident in taking it. Of course there is always unforseen things that can go wrong. And in no way do I suggest anyone to do this, please research yourself and figure out if its right for you. The most that seems to happen in elevated liver enzymes and I believe it was Hoffer that said even that was not a bad thing and was actually fixing something it needed to be.

The more I look into high dose niacinamide the more it seems that this is something that should really help my journey. If not, oh well, I always got high dose vitamin E next.

Peata said:

Anyone get warm face and hands?

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Not that I noticed, but my hands are always pretty toasty lately. Will keep an eye out though.