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Does thyroid use up calcium in the body?
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mayweatherking
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cantstoppeating said:
i have talked to both of them actually haha.
Blossom said:
i would, but i dont think i can. i've been doing 1x a month, but it has been going down. i'm pretty sure it is pretty low now actually with the light, that has been the biggest help.
regarding the OJ.. I think I may be sensitive to it or something. Have you heard of that before? I randomly have been looking in different stores for the mexican coke and I found one that is with real sugar and stevia so I gave it a try. Damn, what a difference. I felt way better drinking the coke with protein as opposed to the OJ. in fact, I drank the OJ this morning with some stuff and started feeling shitty a litlte, then I had coke on top of it and started feeling better. I wonder why the coke is making a difference. I bought trader joe's unpasturized OJ, I thought it was the best lol. I'm going to try the whole foods one now I guess?
lexis said:
I dropped all suppelements per some advice here. I'll be sure to take the oysters though I know they are high zinc. I like to do oysters and liver.
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mayweatherking
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hey do you guys think it is possible for me to be allergic to OJ? or too sensitive to it? i noticed when i don't drink it, i feel way better!!! what the hell!!! i didn't drink it today, I Felt better without it. I drank some this morning, but then i started feeling out of it, so then i drank a coke right after and i felt myself coming back to reality. maybe i have to combine it together??
also, does anyone know what it means when your hair feels itchy like the inflammation comes? i think it has to do with protein/carb ratio.
also, does anyone know what it means when your hair feels itchy like the inflammation comes? i think it has to do with protein/carb ratio.
mayweatherking said:
A lot of people have problem with OJ. It largely depends on quality of orange, RP recommends sweet ripe oranges.
Pectin in orange can be quite problematic and there is polyamines in orange which can increase histamine release.
Acid in OJ can cause digestion issue and that can result in high serotonin and histamine problem.
I drink apple juice, commercial apple juice is pectin free. But, not all commercial AJ are good.
You may have to experiment with many brands before you find the one suits you.
Commercial Apple juice can have fungal residue if they use rotten apples
It is better to make your own AJ from ripe apple.
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mayweatherking
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Mittir said:
i can't do that.. i'll have to look around then and find a brand. i think i would do well with apple juice actually. i have had it before peating and did enjoy it.. i should really have it again. i was always purchasing the unpasturized from trader joes so i thought it was technically real oranges being made. wow.. i guess it didn't work for me. i will go for the apple, thank you.
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mayweatherking
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I sent some emails out and thought you guys might find it interesting.. here's a response I got from Ray Peat when I asked him what he ate yesterday:
Milk, marmalade, mushrooms, coffee, cheese, orange and grapefruit juice, and a sapote.
Then I talked to Danny Roddy about my new OJ dillema and this is what he said:
Yeah, people react differently to different brands of OJ. I pretty much gave up on local brands and just squeeze my own oranges. When I can't or am too lazy to get oranges I just drink mexican coke.
So I caved in and bought an electronic orange juicer thing for 25 dollars for now so I can make my own orange juice. I was tracking foods, but I kept messing up, so now I finally have all the right foods in front of me. For example, I was drinking mexican coke, but forgot my can opener, so I had to drink high fructose corn syrup instead. Other times I didn't have the OJ right, etc. Tomorrow I have everything. I just had some fresh squeezed OJ and I think I react to it better, I'm not sure yet. My temp is still consistently pretty high so hopefully things start getting in order here soon................ still losing hair and libido not where I want it to be.. but lets go... not over until its over
Milk, marmalade, mushrooms, coffee, cheese, orange and grapefruit juice, and a sapote.
Then I talked to Danny Roddy about my new OJ dillema and this is what he said:
Yeah, people react differently to different brands of OJ. I pretty much gave up on local brands and just squeeze my own oranges. When I can't or am too lazy to get oranges I just drink mexican coke.
So I caved in and bought an electronic orange juicer thing for 25 dollars for now so I can make my own orange juice. I was tracking foods, but I kept messing up, so now I finally have all the right foods in front of me. For example, I was drinking mexican coke, but forgot my can opener, so I had to drink high fructose corn syrup instead. Other times I didn't have the OJ right, etc. Tomorrow I have everything. I just had some fresh squeezed OJ and I think I react to it better, I'm not sure yet. My temp is still consistently pretty high so hopefully things start getting in order here soon................ still losing hair and libido not where I want it to be.. but lets go... not over until its over
The orange juice problem is likely too much water/not enough sugar.
Being tired after orange juice/meat could be to little carb to protien ratio(try at least 5-1 carbs - protien initially) or it can be that stress hormones turned down and your true state of tiredness is being revealed. Hypothyroid people get a lot of their energy from stress hormones, and when you eat properly the stress hormones go down and you will be a lot more tired than normal. Ray Peat has mentioned that when people start to supplement thyroid they feel the need to nap. Try eating the meat with honey as your carb source, and if you still get tired then it is probably because you actually are tired.
If your hair feels itchy after eating then something you ate caused your metabolism to slow down so look over what you ate and replace the culprit with an easier digested food.
Being tired after orange juice/meat could be to little carb to protien ratio(try at least 5-1 carbs - protien initially) or it can be that stress hormones turned down and your true state of tiredness is being revealed. Hypothyroid people get a lot of their energy from stress hormones, and when you eat properly the stress hormones go down and you will be a lot more tired than normal. Ray Peat has mentioned that when people start to supplement thyroid they feel the need to nap. Try eating the meat with honey as your carb source, and if you still get tired then it is probably because you actually are tired.
If your hair feels itchy after eating then something you ate caused your metabolism to slow down so look over what you ate and replace the culprit with an easier digested food.
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mayweatherking
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Sea said:
I see. Okay thank you. I have tried to go that high on carbs, but I tend to get very bad scalp itch when I do that. I think it is related somehow to insulin insensitivity. I'm not sure. What's the minimum protein amount do you think I should take before I do that many carbs? Doesn't ray peat say to drink only like a quart of OJ a day? It seems like not that much to me. 16oz only has 50-55g of carbs.. and theres only what, 3 or 4 glasses in a quart? I've been drinking mexican cokes as well.. they seem to be nice to me I think. I will add honey though. Do you mean add honey to OJ or literally just eat like a bunch of honey by itself? I am making my own OJ now btw. It is way better even than unpasturized, at least taste wise. Although it is pricey for enough oranges everyday.
For example.. I drank a mexican coke and ate two eggs. I felt like I was ging to pass out after very, very badly. The eggs only have 10 grams ish of protein, the coke has what, 40 or 50 grams total? I literally fell asleep at my desk at work for like 5 or 10 minutes I think, I'm not sure, but I kept dozing off. Maybe it was not enough protein, that's why I ask. Maybe I'm allergic to the eggs.........
I have other exciting news Sea. I dropped all supplements like you said and I took an aspirin, and actually I was talking to Danny and he suggested it as well in our conversation like an hour or two after I took it. It turned my libido on, it boosted my mood, it did many things. It made me feel almost normal. I have no idea why, but it really, really helped. But it wears off after a couple of hours and I have to take another one to come back again. I'm not sure what that means. However, my teeth are not aching when I take it so that is good. I think one of the other supplements was causing that.
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Peat has talked about that feeling like passing out after a couple of eggs and not enough carbs. I think he says he needs about 10oz OJ to balance one egg. Other proteins may not need quite as much carbs - he says egg protein particularly stimulates insulin release, and it's easy to get a blood sugar drop after them. I've felt like falling asleep at my desk after an egg or two for morning tea too, and got really strong sugar cravings, before I read Peat on this. Now I always have my Oj a few minutes before my morning egg(s).
As others have said before, and Sea again now, lots of people can't make it work trying to get all their carbs from milk and juice, because the carb:water ratio is too low. All that water can cause stress if you haven't got the resources to deal with it. Are you having to pee often? If it's clear you are probably drinking too much.
Eating the honey separately or mixing it with the juice will both help increase carb:water ratio, so go with whichever tastes better to you. Eat a tsp or two of honey and see if it makes you feel better. When it stops tasting good, stop. I was adding simple syrup to my juice when I started out. Now I just eat more solids (and sometimes have to drink water for thirst). I guess you salt the eggs?
As others have said before, and Sea again now, lots of people can't make it work trying to get all their carbs from milk and juice, because the carb:water ratio is too low. All that water can cause stress if you haven't got the resources to deal with it. Are you having to pee often? If it's clear you are probably drinking too much.
Eating the honey separately or mixing it with the juice will both help increase carb:water ratio, so go with whichever tastes better to you. Eat a tsp or two of honey and see if it makes you feel better. When it stops tasting good, stop. I was adding simple syrup to my juice when I started out. Now I just eat more solids (and sometimes have to drink water for thirst). I guess you salt the eggs?
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mayweatherking
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tara said:
interesting about the eggs. where does he say this? thanks for the tip on the honey. i bought some honey and i'm eating it now that you said that about eggs. i just ate 2 eggs, some cheese, and OJ.
i bought a food scale (greatest thing I have done in peating so far) and I'm measuring exact amounts of food. i think i was VASTLY over eating cheese before. i looked up the cheese i was eating online... only 1.8oz of the cheese i had had 500mg of calcium in it. i was seriously downing so much of that cheese at once. i had to be doing at least like 2000mg of calcium in a single serving and not enough carbs with it. i seperated my cheese out into 4 bags of 500mg each so I know how much exact calcium I am getting. I just did one bag of cheese, two eggs, and 13 oz of OJ, and I feel OK after doing that. I have to make sure I am getting exact ratios now and hopefully this will help.
I'm gonna go down some of that honey now. For the record, I'm not peeing a lot to be honest. I'm just drinking OJ and cokes so thats all the liquid I have.
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tara said:
Thanks. I will watch for that. I was doing a lot with milk.. but that ship has sailed lol. What do you think of the fact I'm using chicken as a big protein source? I seem to get tired with gelatin.. well I will try tomorrow gelatin again now that im getting enough carbs with everything.
So today I stuck to everything pretty well I think minus I haf a lot of chicken.
Breakfast I had two eggs and cheese and enough oj to be 2x the protein amt.
Lunch I had 40grams of protein of chicken with a coke and oj.. enough to be at around 2x and higher of carbs.
Dinner I had arnd 30 grams of protein with chicken and cheese and coke and oj.. but felt a little tired after this one and fell asleep after eating.
Some of the meals I felt my hair itchy.. but it went away after 5 or 10 min into eating... I suspect it has to do with slower digestion of protein compared to carbs. I also had 81mg of aspirin for each of these meals along with shooting spurts of honey in my mouth.
I "feel' really satisifed today.. I think I was lower on carbs.. but really not too horny.
What do you think of my cronometer everyone??? I usually do 1oz of liver per day as well, but I didn't have any today because I ran out, but I will getting some tomorrow to make up for some difference in there. Maybe I need some more carbs and fat? I was 2x carbs on everything today.. I'm not sure why it seems lower, but still not bad!!! MY only concern is my massive chicken eating. My temp only really hit 98.6 after eating, but for much of the day it was like 98.4 or nor 98.3. Maybe because of the chicken i suspect.
Sea said:
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If that cronometer picture really represents all you ate that day, then I think if you keep that up it will result in starvation. I hope you are having addition snacks in between, and/or that this was a one off exceptionally low calorie day. Even cronometer reckons are in energy deficit by more than 800cals, and I reckon the deficit is at least twice that. I wouldn't blame it all on the chicken.mayweatherking said:
Doesn't your appetite tell you to eat more?
The problems Peat has identified with chicken are that it tends to higher PUFA than ruminant meat, and that it is hig in some off the amino acids that we don't necessairly want too much of. I'd say eat it now and then if you like it, but go lean to minimise the PUFA, and eat some gelatine too to balance the amino acids.
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tara said:
Oh yeah you are right... that was only 1200 calories. I didn't realize it was so low. I was looking at the 2055 burned. Damn. Yeah, that is all I ate all day. No, my body didn't really tell me to eat more except very late at night when I was all ready in bed. I might have hit it at that point maybe.
How much protein do you have in a single sitting? I'm trying not to go above 50g in one sitting.
I will eat more today and try to pass that. I did have additional honey with each meal that wasn't accounted for. I'm not sure how much taht was for though.
fungus on my chest seems to be coming back in on my chest i just noticed. it looks faded a little so hopefully it's not too bad. maybe after getting these exact ratios it will start to go down. today i noticed my hair was extra sebumy. it's usually not like htat, it is usually pretty dryish, so I take that as a good sign. I guess if i eat more maybe I will be OK. I will 2k today.
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hey tara, if i am taking aspirin, it seems like I should be taking vitamin K as well, shouldnt I? i just realized that there is no vitamn K in anything I am eating. maybe i am doing myself a disservice by taking aspirin and not having vitamin K. i dropped all supplements for now, besides aspirin, but maybe i should get a little K?
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50 g protein in one sitting is a lot. See: Too much protein at once?
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mayweatherking
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Giraffe said:
very good to know, thanks. i was saying i didn't want to go above 50 becuase I did go above it before and started feeling out of it when i did it. i will keep it to max 30 now.
it is amazing to me that tara said i was near starvation levels even though my protein or the day was 100g+. considering i got usually 2 to 1 carbs to protein per day and ray says to eat at least 100grams of protein per day. i just ate another meal and damn i feel full, i don't even feel like eating again and i'm only at 1k calories for the day so far, so i need to go eat a lot more. i'm about to have a ***t load of orange juice i guess. ive all ready eaten 2 eggs, chicken, liver, oysters, 4 or 5 cokes all ready, 3/4th a bottle of honey, a couple more things.
maybe ive been severely under eating for a while...
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A lot of us do supplement vit K if we are taking aspirin regularly, since Peat recommends it.mayweatherking said:
I seldom eat as much as 50g at a sitting. Occasional ~40g, often 15-30g. I may not alwys ht 100g, though it might be good if I did.mayweatherking said:
Once you've got 100g + of protein, I'd guess it's more important to get you calories up than to stick to some theoretically perfect C:P ratio. Lots of people eat around 4:1, some as high as 6:1 over the day. I'd suggest trying to get at least 2:1 on any particular meal, but over all go for higher carbs and higher calories. You can have OJ by itself between meals. If you feel like eating more protein, I'd follow that too, as long as you also eat enough carbs with it.
If you've been chronically undereating, that could explain a lot of your troubles. You can't maintain all systems in severe energy deficiency.
Lack of appetite = anorexia.
Have you seen this thread: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4028
You might find the Minnesota (Semi-) Starvation Experiment interesting, too.
Would you have more of an appetite if you allowed yourself a wider variety of foods?
In my books, avoiding PUFA and particular irritants is a good idea, but eating beats starving to keep the metabolism running, even if it isn't all 'perfect' food.
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mayweatherking said:Giraffe said:
very good to know, thanks. i was saying i didn't want to go above 50 becuase I did go above it before and started feeling out of it when i did it. i will keep it to max 30 now.
it is amazing to me that tara said i was near starvation levels even though my protein or the day was 100g+. considering i got usually 2 to 1 carbs to protein per day and ray says to eat at least 100grams of protein per day. i just ate another meal and damn i feel full, i don't even feel like eating again and i'm only at 1k calories for the day so far, so i need to go eat a lot more. i'm about to have a s*** load of orange juice i guess. ive all ready eaten 2 eggs, chicken, liver, oysters, 4 or 5 cokes all ready, 3/4th a bottle of honey, a couple more things.
maybe ive been severely under eating for a while...
I doubt 2-1 carbs to protien level is optimal, especially for a hypothyroid person that amount will never cause healing. I think you should try to reach 10-1 carb to protien ratio or as close to it as you can. When you are hypothyroid you are running on stress hormones and stress hormones suppress the appetite so you have to break this cycle. It is important to eat immediately upon waking, not after an hour, and to eat very frequently throughout the day right up until you go to sleep and then eat more if you wake up at night.
You are also making your diet way to complicated. Skin conditions fully go away if you stop eating the food that you can't digest even when you are still hypothyroid. I don't think you should eat eggs, liver or oysters until your skin is fine and you can tell whether or not they cause a problem.
My advice is to just get fat free greek yogurt or cottage cheese so you are not getting all of your protien from chicken and if you can afford it replace the chicken with a lean fish, but really, I doubt it matters much until you are trying to make your metabolism really fast. Then for carbs get the squeezable honey containers and take one with you so you can eat honey every hour. The bear shaped ones are 12oz and they provide 1000 calories from carbs if you can finish the container. With that amount of honey you might be ok getting the rest of your carbs from liquids like orange juice and coke. Otherwise, you will have a craving for a dry food or some fast food and then you just need to eat some salted white rice with honey or some corn tortillas with honey, or any refined flour should work even gluten should be fine. And then just eat some refined coconut oil a few times/day and consider supplementing some of the fat soluble vitamins with the coconut oil. If you eat enough then your digestive capability will start to increase pretty rapidly and you should be fine with eggs after a short period. The only other supplements I would consider are caffeine from espresso shots or cold brew or strong coffee along with aspirin.
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mayweatherking
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Sea said:post 105876mayweatherking said:Giraffe said:
very good to know, thanks. i was saying i didn't want to go above 50 becuase I did go above it before and started feeling out of it when i did it. i will keep it to max 30 now.
it is amazing to me that tara said i was near starvation levels even though my protein or the day was 100g+. considering i got usually 2 to 1 carbs to protein per day and ray says to eat at least 100grams of protein per day. i just ate another meal and damn i feel full, i don't even feel like eating again and i'm only at 1k calories for the day so far, so i need to go eat a lot more. i'm about to have a s*** load of orange juice i guess. ive all ready eaten 2 eggs, chicken, liver, oysters, 4 or 5 cokes all ready, 3/4th a bottle of honey, a couple more things.
maybe ive been severely under eating for a while...
I doubt 2-1 carbs to protien level is optimal, especially for a hypothyroid person that amount will never cause healing. I think you should try to reach 10-1 carb to protien ratio or as close to it as you can. When you are hypothyroid you are running on stress hormones and stress hormones suppress the appetite so you have to break this cycle. It is important to eat immediately upon waking, not after an hour, and to eat very frequently throughout the day right up until you go to sleep and then eat more if you wake up at night.
You are also making your diet way to complicated. Skin conditions fully go away if you stop eating the food that you can't digest even when you are still hypothyroid. I don't think you should eat eggs, liver or oysters until your skin is fine and you can tell whether or not they cause a problem.
My advice is to just get fat free greek yogurt or cottage cheese so you are not getting all of your protien from chicken and if you can afford it replace the chicken with a lean fish, but really, I doubt it matters much until you are trying to make your metabolism really fast. Then for carbs get the squeezable honey containers and take one with you so you can eat honey every hour. The bear shaped ones are 12oz and they provide 1000 calories from carbs if you can finish the container. With that amount of honey you might be ok getting the rest of your carbs from liquids like orange juice and coke. Otherwise, you will have a craving for a dry food or some fast food and then you just need to eat some salted white rice with honey or some corn tortillas with honey, or any refined flour should work even gluten should be fine. And then just eat some refined coconut oil a few times/day and consider supplementing some of the fat soluble vitamins with the coconut oil. If you eat enough then your digestive capability will start to increase pretty rapidly and you should be fine with eggs after a short period. The only other supplements I would consider are caffeine from espresso shots or cold brew or strong coffee along with aspirin.
10 to 1 carb to protein, I can do that.. but I probably can't do big meals. Would you have to do 10 or 15 grams of protein for a meal to get that kind of ratio? I just ate chicken, (30g of protein worth) and about 32oz of OJ and felt really full after this, I almost felt too full, but I definetely felt my temperature rise. Although I think it was too much liquid. I used gelatin with it and my head got the expansion thing for the first time in a while, so it was either the gelatin (which I think it was), or it was too much liquid as you've been saying.
For the honey, what protein do you eat with it ? I am doing 1oz of liver a day, so I can start my day right away because I have liver pre cooked, 1oz of liver and just down 3/4th a bottle of honey right away. I will go buy some more cottage cheese now. I have some here, but I'll go buy more.
So you think I should just be eating cottage cheese, honey, and chicken/fish? I can't do coconut oil btw because it gives me very, very bad brainfog, I can't even think on it. The rice I can probably do.
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