In Defense Of Low Fat

SAFarmer

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Yes !

I always knew Denise is smart, and proves now that she is also honest.
 
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Like me, Denise is a seeker of truth and objectivity. I can't wait for part two of her article. Her article shows what all of the Taubes/low carb folk completely ignore. Those people really think that potatoes are the cause of obesity but they completely ignore the fact that people only eat potatoes in the form of french fries and potato chips which are high fat foods. Potato chips and french fries are like sponges, soaking up the fat but people blame the starch. You're better off just sticking your head into the deep fryer and sucking with a straw than eating fries and chips. Similar to what Denise shows about Kemper's rice diet, a "McDougall" diet where one is eating potatoes with no fat and not in french fry or chip form, is going to have different results than someone eating them cooked in fat, both pufa and safa. It's just a fact. You are considered a weirdo if you go out of your way to eat Kempner/McDougall style and not add fat to the starch. Whether it's PUFA peanut butter, MUFA guacamole/olive oil/nut butters, or SAFA mammal cream, butter, and cheese, the reason why most people still have problems after adopting a "clean" diet and regimen is simply because they consume too much fat and they wonder why they can't lose weight (body fat), feel tired and fatigued all the time, and have blood sugar issues. Like Peat said in some quotes, unless you do hard physical labor, all of those fat calories are not needed. Fat is easily deposited as fat droplets into adipose tissue. I have no use for that.
 
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Nicholas

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She is a great communicator.

For the past couple weeks i've been trying lower fat (switching from full to 1% milk, which i barely drink anyway.....no more cheese really....and switching from 2% greek yogurt to 0%). I have noticed that i've felt a little better....just adjusting to having to eat a little more. I don't think i'm the kind of person that thrives on high fat.....nor do i think i thrive on very low fat.
 

Binky

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Hmmm I notice I feel sick and anxious if I don't eat enough fat, I'm almost sick of sweet food in general, it just makes this tight feeling in my gut, and pretty much everywhere else. My digestion went from once every 3 days to 1-2 times a day when I finally added butter back into my diet and said screw ratios if I want to eat it I'll eat it....

Am I going to hell?
 
OP
Dan W

Dan W

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I dunno WP, a low fat approach seems to work for me, but now I've been thrown into doubt by a helpful commenter:

salbers12 said:
You are missing one key point. Not all fats are bad. In fact, essential fats are essential for cell homeostasis and cannot be made by your body. They are called essential fatty acids. Your low fat diet will starve your body for these essential fats causing a host of symptoms and facilitate over 60 chronic diseases according to the National Academy of Science.
So enjoy getting dozens of chronic diseases, WP. I'll be over here drinking a refreshing glass of cottonseed oil.
 

narouz

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Dan Wich said:
I'll be over here drinking a refreshing glass of cottonseed oil.

Alternatively:
consider a crisp yet succulent cotton salad,
tossed with a virgin yet lusty cottonseed oil

:hattip
 

tara

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Interested to note the comment on how Kempner made a low sodium diet workable by making it low-water too:
In the unmodified initial diet, 90% to 95% of the caloric intake is carbohydrate, taken as rice and fruit. As in the original rice diet, salt intake is exceedingly low (less than 60 mg of sodium per day) and fluid intake is thus markedly reduced to prevent water intoxication. Thus, the initial diet is low-calorie, low-salt, low-protein, low-fat, and essentially free of cholesterol.
 

tara

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narouz said:
post 103141
Dan Wich said:
I'll be over here drinking a refreshing glass of cottonseed oil.

Alternatively:
consider a crisp yet succulent cotton salad,
tossed with a virgin yet lusty cottonseed oil

:hattip
If you go easy on the cottonseed oil, I'll bet that would mop up any bothersome endotoxin or estrogen-laden bile you've got brewing in there. :)
 
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RPDiciple

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really good and long post, i have much respect for Denise.
or sure i feel 999 times better on low fat as well, no doubt. I can eat skimmed milk candy and all that sugar wich ppl demonize and feel million times better and get leaner faster then ppl eating the clean 40 30 30 or whatever stuff
 

tara

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She's a great writer, isn't she. :)

She points out that in the low fat studies, going down to 10% fat made a statistically significant difference, but the difference between 30% and 20% was was negligible. I found that surprising.

Anyone have thoughts/knowledge about the Neu5Gc in beef, mutton, pork, milk, cheese (but not eggs, fish, fowl, butter), and how important it might be?
 

blob69

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I asked Peat how he would explain the success of Swank's diet for MS and his reply was: "I think the cod liver oil and low iron (red meat) intake were helpful."

Indeed Swank changes so many variables with his diet that it's hard to know what really works. He does report a correlation of better outcomes with a low sat. fat diet, however, SF is present in red meat and hence correlated with iron.

Gosh, nutrition is difficult and confusing. Peat praising cod liver oil, of all things! :arghh:
 

Agent207

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Is 1gr/kg of dietary fat an acceptable amount? This for me is around 20% of calorie intake, and I sense I crave fat if I go below that.
 

HDD

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I asked Peat how he would explain the success of Swank's diet for MS and his reply was: "I think the cod liver oil and low iron (red meat) intake were helpful."

Indeed Swank changes so many variables with his diet that it's hard to know what really works. He does report a correlation of better outcomes with a low sat. fat diet, however, SF is present in red meat and hence correlated with iron.

Gosh, nutrition is difficult and confusing. Peat praising cod liver oil, of all things! :arghh:

I loosely followed the Swank diet, no red meat the first year, and extremely low fat. I never supplemented the oils as he recommended. I bought the cod liver oil but did not take it much. However, I did take Evening Primrose oil and large amounts of Vitamin C I was thinking the higher metabolism from it being low fat was why it was beneficial.
 

DaveFoster

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Ray has stated the minimum daily amount of fat to be around 60 grams. He's stated the optimal macronutrient ratios to probably be equal parts PRT, CHO, and fat.

This would mean a fat intake of around 100-150 grams per day, ideally wholly saturated.
 

lindsay

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I love that Denise is so investigative and thorough in her research. But (and I am sure she would say the same), context is everything. I live in the cold NorthEast where we have little daylight and cold cold winters, and - fat intake is a necessity for me and many others. Though, the only fat intake I really tolerate well and feel better with is dairy fat, and eggs (I have access to really good eggs and cheese). I love half & half cream and cheese and dislike meat fat, as does my husband. Meat fat irritates my gut and dairy fat makes me feel happy and content (as long as it isn't full of liquid). I also LOVE LOVE LOVE sugar, but when the only good fruit you can get in winter is oranges (My favorite!) and imported stuff, your options are limited. I don't know where I would be without cheese and cream, really. I eat very little meat in comparison to most people, and I'm fine with that because meat fat offers very little in comparison to dairy, IMO. Seriously though, for me, switching to cream in my coffee and fermented cheese instead of milk really helped. Partially because of the lack of liquids and partially because of the vitamins. Just look at how milk fat is a perfect food - like an egg yoke (but without so much PUFA). Full of vitamins A and K2 and low in iron. My bones feel strong, my teeth are stronger, and I am frankly a cheese addict. I recall emailing Ray Peat (who always puts forth the need for protein and told me so again) and he said, "Cheese and eggs are some of the best proteins." They are my staples and are not without fat. If I get low fat milk, I don't get K2 and a natural Vitamin A and D. Just crappy additives. So, context is important. I think cheese and eggs have made my liver better. If I lived in Florida, my fat intake would be much lower, however. Because it's not cold there. Context is very important.

P.S. I should add, my fat intake is still only around 70 grams per day - mostly dairy fat. So really not that high, but now low fat either.
 
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blob69

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I loosely followed the Swank diet, no red meat the first year, and extremely low fat. I never supplemented the oils as he recommended. I bought the cod liver oil but did not take it much. However, I did take Evening Primrose oil and large amounts of Vitamin C I was thinking the higher metabolism from it being low fat was why it was beneficial.

Interesting. Were the changes impressive? Do you think you've reduced iron on his diet as well?
 

blob69

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Ray has stated the minimum daily amount of fat to be around 60 grams. He's stated the optimal macronutrient ratios to probably be equal parts PRT, CHO, and fat.

Can you provide any sources? It would make sense because pretty much all humans intuitively prefer a mixed diet like this... That is what bothers me with all these restricted diet plans - why would a body crave a harmful diet? Unless restrictions were temporary, to mimic food shortage or something.
 
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