Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

haidut

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This topic has come up repeatedly and recently forum member gbolduev raises the issue again, and forum member jyb suggested I post about it. It seems that due to hypothyroidism and other conditions, many people on the forum have a functional protein deficiency due to poor ability to digest protein from food. Some cases can be helped by taking digestive enzymes but others need more drastic measures. There is a growing field of research on restoring protein metabolism in sick people by using direct supplementation with essential amino acids only. This approach achieved positive nitrogen balance with much lower protein intake and has the benefits of generating much less toxic byproducts while also having much higher utilization percentage. Studies often quote numbers on protein utilization and it seems that the highest utilization from food sources is for eggs (45%), followed by milk (30%), meat (25%) all the way down to plant protein (<15%). These numbers show why plant protein is in general not a good food for most people - i.e. you spend a lot of energy to digest and get very little benefit from it.
http://drbillyhealth.com/clean-protein/

"...To illustrate: the most “Heavy” dietary proteins, such as meat, fish or poultry provide an average of 32% NNU. This means that only 32% (Or Less) of their constituent amino acids act as precursors of BPS, to become the body’s tissue. Meanwhile, the remaining 68% (Or More) are catabolized, thus releasing nitrogen catabolites (Basically, harsh poison) and energy.
NOTE 1. Nitrogen catabolites are very caustic to the system, in particular, very hard on the kidneys and liver.
Note 2. Protein is a “Dirty” and inefficient way to get energy… Sensible energy acquisition is by way of carbohydrates primarily, and fats secondarily.
Other typical protein sources; milk, soy, casein or whey (the main proteins found in most protein supplements), only provide an average of 16% NNU. This means that only 16% of their constituent amino acids act as precursors of BPS (What your body wants) . Meanwhile, the remaining 84% are catabolized, thus releasing nitrogen catabolites (What the body does not benefit from). As in the example above (Flesh Foods), this is not considered a healthful dietary choice."
Anyways, below are some studies discussing supplementation with essential amino acids and the benefits form it.

General studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25827594
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25772815
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26004031


MAP studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14964347
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14964348
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14669816
http://www.optimale-aminosaeuren.de/Lit ... tients.pdf
http://naturalsolutions.nz/articles/MAP ... ct2003.pdf
http://www.masteraminoacidpattern.com/h ... ce_MAP.pdf

The general consensus is that if one ingests ~25g of these amino acids daily one can cover their entire protein needs considering the protein utilization is apparently around 99%.
The MAP studies are from the maker of the MAP amino acid product, so take them with a grain of salt. You can find the MAP product itself on Amazon, but it pricy and you can do your own MAP at home for fraction of the cost. The reported ideal amino acid pattern/ratio for humans is as follows (10g total dose):

L-Isoleucine: 1,483mg
L-Leucine: 1,964mg
L-Valine: 1,657mg
L-Lysine: 1,111mg
L-Methionine: 1,429mg
L-Phenylalanine: 699mg
L-Threonine: 1,289mg
L-Tryptophan: 368mg
_______________________
TOTAL: 10,000mg (10g)

You don't have to take 10g doses to get a benefit. Some of the studies above showed strong health benefits from as little as 3.5g of this mixture, taken several times a day with your meals or on an empty stomach.
One thing to keep in mind is that you don't need all the aminos listed above. As you know, tryptophan, methionine an histidine are not optimal for health. In addition, most people already have them floating around their body in such amounts that taking extra is not necessary. So, you can achieve both increased protein utilization and selective amino acid depletion reported by studies to have beneficial effects (tryptophan, methionine, cysteine, etc). For instance, it is well know that raising body levels of carnosine is beneficial for athletic performance. Rather than take pure carnosine, which is expensive, most studies use beta alanine supplementation since it combines with the plenty of histidine floating around and creates carnosine by also depleting histidine a bit. Similarly, people have a lot of tryptophan floating around bound to albumin and also methionine stored in the liver. Thus, one typically does NOT need to supplement all essential amino acids to trigger protein synthesis (MPS) and by supplementing with only partial essential aminos you get the benefits of selective amino acid depletion as well.
Keeping this in mind, from the above listed aminos one only needs to supplement with leucine, valine, isoleucine, phenylalanine, lysine, and threonine. While the above doses/ratios have been reported to be optimal, you can simplify it a bit by taking a common BCAA product that usually has the BCAA in ratios 2:1:1 leucine:valine:isoleucine and add 500mg of the remainig amino acids. This means that a single dose of the modified MAP would have 1000 leusine, 500mg valine, 500mg isoleucine, 500 phenylalanine, 500mg lysine, and 500mg threonine. If you want to improve the health effects even more you can add glycine, taurine, or beta alanine to this mixture in any doses you want.
You can take this MAP dose several times a day as needed, with or without food. If you are in favor of using more food sources you can achieve similar effects by eating gelatin and supplementing a single dose of BCAA and 500mg threonine (gelatin is deficient in both).
Finally, since tryptophan is missing form this mixture, you will also lower serotonin in the brain by taking it. Overall it looks like a decent way to boost health/metabolism while reaping some additional benefits such as depletion of certain bad amino acids, and lowering serotonin in the brain.
Thoughts?
 

sunmountain

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:bow Great post, Haidut!! THANK YOU!

As you know, I'm trying Gbolduev's plankton for a month or so for SIBO. If I don't see benefits on it for sibo and stop it, I know now how to supplement protein, thanks to this post.

Charlie, this post needs to be a sticky!!!
 

jyb

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Thanks haidut. It is interesting to see that only 30% milk/meat protein is utilised for example, meaning that all the protein found in many servings of milk/meat could be replaced by about total daily 30g of pure amino acids. I feel this could be useful on a busy work day or while traveling - protein foods are not as easy to get as fat or sugar from a chocolate bar for example, so this might help to get more complete meals. For people new to BCCA powder I would caution against taking too much BCAA on its own without balancing as in my experience it really depletes dopamine and it really wastes your day - cf other threads on BCAA.
 
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haidut

haidut

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jyb said:
Thanks haidut. It is interesting to see that only 30% milk/meat protein is utilised for example, meaning that all the protein found in many servings of milk/meat could be replaced by about total daily 30g of pure amino acids. I feel this could be useful on a busy work day or while traveling - protein foods are not as easy to get as fat or sugar from a chocolate bar for example, so this might help to get more complete meals. For people new to BCCA powder I would caution against taking too much BCAA on its own without balancing as in my experience it really depletes dopamine and it really wastes your day - cf other threads on BCAA.

Yep, BCAA are double-edged sword - they deplete whatever aromatic amino acid is in dearth. If both phenylalanine/tyrosine and tyrptophan are in dearth (i.e. taking BCAA on their own) then BCAA will deplete both serotonin and dopamine. This is probably the reason for their mixed effect on human trials on fatigue. However, this study recognized this fact and remediated it by adding 1,000mg - 1,500mg tyrosine to the 3g of BCAA. If you click on the author's name "Fernstrom" you will see him doing studies on BCAA and neurotransmitter depletion going back 20 years. His studies is what got me experimenting with BCAA, tyrosine, phenylalanine, etc several years ago.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23904096

Link to author's other amino acid studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Fernstrom%20JD[Author]&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=23904096
 

FredSonoma

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I'm very very interested in this... I'm really craving some protein all the time but not exactly sure what I want (I think I'm craving scallops more than anything) but feel strange after having bone broth and can only eat so many eggs and cod heads.

To be honest, I am a bit scared of doing this supplementing stuff - just feel more comfortable with foods. My issues right now seem to just be slow metabolism / low thyroid. Has anyone experimented with this and seen improvements in their health? Any downsides?
 

NathanK

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Thanks Haidut, Id recently been looking into what triggers protein synthesis since BCAAs alone and gelatin post workout doesnt do much (I take some NALT as well). The only other work around id seen someone mention was your taking of a whey or casein blend with BCAAs to diminish tryptophan transport. So it appears that you have answered my questions :). Threonine is the one AA that I know relatively little about.

Beta alanine that you mention for added benefit I still wonder about. I notice when I take it that I get the flushing feeling similar to nicotinic acid. I assume that is histamine being released contrary to some assertions that ive heard that it lowers histadine. That is unless it carries the same rational as niacin that it depletes histamine after X amount of days and the flushing effects wear off.

I look forward to hearing peoples results with this.
 
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haidut

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FredSonoma said:
I'm very very interested in this... I'm really craving some protein all the time but not exactly sure what I want (I think I'm craving scallops more than anything) but feel strange after having bone broth and can only eat so many eggs and cod heads.

To be honest, I am a bit scared of doing this supplementing stuff - just feel more comfortable with foods. My issues right now seem to just be slow metabolism / low thyroid. Has anyone experimented with this and seen improvements in their health? Any downsides?

I think this is best suited for people with really compromised digestion or very fatigued/hypothyroid. This approach is used in hospitals for people who cannot eat normal food or have compromised digestion. If food works for you then I'd stick to it. Otherwise you can get a cheaper product like this one and try a few doses to see how they affect you.
http://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Essential- ... B00020I9R4

The product includes methionine and histidine, which I think is not optimal, but you can use it to test if the amino acid approach helps you and if yes then can buy the aminos separately and do the cocktail I suggest.
 
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haidut

haidut

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NathanK said:
Thanks Haidut, Id recently been looking into what triggers protein synthesis since BCAAs alone and gelatin post workout doesnt do much (I take some NALT as well). The only other work around id seen someone mention was your taking of a whey or casein blend with BCAAs to diminish tryptophan transport. So it appears that you have answered my questions :). Threonine is the one AA that I know relatively little about.

Beta alanine that you mention for added benefit I still wonder about. I notice when I take it that I get the flushing feeling similar to nicotinic acid. I assume that is histamine being released contrary to some assertions that ive heard that it lowers histadine. That is unless it carries the same rational as niacin that it depletes histamine after X amount of days and the flushing effects wear off.

I look forward to hearing peoples results with this.

I don't think the beta alanine tingling is tied to histamine. It seems to be a nerve reaction due to beta alanine biding some kind of "receptor". Whatever it may be, it seems to be harmless and can be eliminated by reducing beta alanine doses.
Finally, rat studies showed that taurine depletion happened with beta alanine administration of 4% in drinking water, concurrently with alcohol. Alcohol also depletes taurine. The 4% dose correspond to 60g beta alanine daily for a human, which is so unrealistic that I am not sure anybody has reached such levels given the price of beta alanine and its side effects of tingling. At 60g a day, a person will probably feel on fire for days so definitely not something I'd worry about. Peat would have cautioned against it if he thought it is relevant.
 

Jennifer

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I know it's a bit time consuming to make, but what about potato protein soup/potato juice for those with a really compromised gut? Wouldn't that be safer and more nutritious than supplemental amino acids? Also, if I remember correctly, the potato juice would also bind to the already existing toxic byproducts (ammonia was it?) circulating in the system so we can dispose of them, right?
 

jyb

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Jennifer said:
I know it's a bit time consuming to make, but what about potato protein soup/potato juice for those with a really compromised gut? Wouldn't that be safer and more nutritious than supplemental amino acids? Also, if I remember correctly, the potato juice would also bind to the already existing toxic byproducts (ammonia was it?) circulating in the system so we can dispose of them, right?

I think you're right in emergencies it seems it'd supply a lot even with a broken digestion. That was the point of Ray's recommendation. But it does a lot more than just providing protein, and more of that extra stuff is not necessarily better. I think its one of these super foods where you feel good on it short term if you were very sick, but not good as a staple after a while (like you'd be better off not using it at all). I read a lot of mixed opinions about supplemented ketones, more does not seem to be better and Ray himself does not seem to be a fan of using lots despite the fact that it is similar to sugar (in fact, easier to use than glucose). But following haidut's post that we don't need a huge lot of protein, maybe a small amount daily would help to get some well digested amino acids.
 

Makrosky

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Great info as always, thanks haidut!!!!

I think the current biochemistry theory is that aminoacids are divided in groups (dibasic, neutral, dicarboxylic, etc.) and those groups share a transporting system to be absorved. The aminoacid present in higher concentration will prevent the absorption of the one in lesser concentration, for that kind of transporter. For instance, tyrosine and tryptophan share the same transport system. This is the simplest explanation, albeit totally incomplete of course.

This is probably much more complicated because certain (or maybe all) aminoacids can share transport systems, or use another routes if one isn't working, etc.

Does anybody have a consistent theory ?

I'm asking this because one could create a certain aminoacid deficiency by supplementing high doses of other aminoacids.

I'm pretty sure Peat has taken this into account when formulating his advice about gelatin, tryptophan, etc. so it should be safe. Other experiments/combinations might not be safe at all for long term use. There are way too variables to take into account.

Let me know what you think about this guys.
 
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haidut

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lexis said:
Would this mixture address low albumin issues?

Yes, it has been specifically used to correct low albumin issues in people with compromised liver function who cannot eat a lot of protein. In fact, it raised albumin even with only one dose daily (10g).
 

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[soundcloud][/soundcloud]
haidut said:
You can find the MAP product itself on Amazon, but it pricy and you can do your own MAP at home for fraction of the cost. The reported ideal amino acid pattern/ratio for humans is as follows (10g total dose):

L-Isoleucine: 1,483mg
L-Leucine: 1,964mg
L-Valine: 1,657mg
L-Lysine: 1,111mg
L-Methionine: 1,429mg
L-Phenylalanine: 699mg
L-Threonine: 1,289mg
L-Tryptophan: 368mg
_______________________
TOTAL: 10,000mg (10g)

You don't have to take 10g doses to get a benefit. Some of the studies above showed strong health benefits from as little as 3.5g of this mixture, taken several times a day with your meals or on an empty stomach.

Keeping this in mind, from the above listed aminos one only needs to supplement with leucine, valine, isoleucine, phenylalanine, lysine, and threonine. While the above doses/ratios have been reported to be optimal, you can simplify it a bit by taking a common BCAA product that usually has the BCAA in ratios 2:1:1 leucine:valine:isoleucine and add 500mg of the remainig amino acids. This means that a single dose of the modified MAP would have 1000 leusine, 500mg valine, 500mg isoleucine, 500 phenylalanine, 500mg lysine, and 500mg threonine. If you want to improve the health effects even more you can add glycine, taurine, or beta alanine to this mixture in any doses you want.
You can take this MAP dose several times a day as needed, with or without food. If you are in favor of using more food sources you can achieve similar effects by eating gelatin and supplementing a single dose of BCAA and 500mg threonine (gelatin is deficient in both).
Thoughts?


I've been wanting to make a protein powder or protein drink for a while now. I recently saw a liquid gelatin protein drink at a local health store and it made me wonder if a liquid/drink is the best route.
I was thinking of dissolving the amino acids in water to make a "Gatorade" type of drink - proteins, minerals, glycine and a fruit juice. Maybe even carbonate it too. Do you think the aminos will dissolve well? Is there any reason NOT to add vitamins or caffeine?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Philomath said:
[soundcloud][/soundcloud]
haidut said:
You can find the MAP product itself on Amazon, but it pricy and you can do your own MAP at home for fraction of the cost. The reported ideal amino acid pattern/ratio for humans is as follows (10g total dose):

L-Isoleucine: 1,483mg
L-Leucine: 1,964mg
L-Valine: 1,657mg
L-Lysine: 1,111mg
L-Methionine: 1,429mg
L-Phenylalanine: 699mg
L-Threonine: 1,289mg
L-Tryptophan: 368mg
_______________________
TOTAL: 10,000mg (10g)

You don't have to take 10g doses to get a benefit. Some of the studies above showed strong health benefits from as little as 3.5g of this mixture, taken several times a day with your meals or on an empty stomach.

Keeping this in mind, from the above listed aminos one only needs to supplement with leucine, valine, isoleucine, phenylalanine, lysine, and threonine. While the above doses/ratios have been reported to be optimal, you can simplify it a bit by taking a common BCAA product that usually has the BCAA in ratios 2:1:1 leucine:valine:isoleucine and add 500mg of the remainig amino acids. This means that a single dose of the modified MAP would have 1000 leusine, 500mg valine, 500mg isoleucine, 500 phenylalanine, 500mg lysine, and 500mg threonine. If you want to improve the health effects even more you can add glycine, taurine, or beta alanine to this mixture in any doses you want.
You can take this MAP dose several times a day as needed, with or without food. If you are in favor of using more food sources you can achieve similar effects by eating gelatin and supplementing a single dose of BCAA and 500mg threonine (gelatin is deficient in both).
Thoughts?


I've been wanting to make a protein powder or protein drink for a while now. I recently saw a liquid gelatin protein drink at a local health store and it made me wonder if a liquid/drink is the best route.
I was thinking of dissolving the amino acids in water to make a "Gatorade" type of drink - proteins, minerals, glycine and a fruit juice. Maybe even carbonate it too. Do you think the aminos will dissolve well? Is there any reason NOT to add vitamins or caffeine?

You''ll have to check what is the solubility of each amino in water. I know some of them like glycine or lysine are quite soluble in water but I am not sure about the others such as taurine. In theory, a gelatin drink would only need some threonine and BCAA added to make it a complete protein. So, try it out and let us know.
 

RPDiciple

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This makes sense for me haidut. Since if i increase my protein intake to like 250g+ a day from dairy i get positive effects from that increased protein intake. Better body temp, faster transit time, less water retention etc.
 

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haidut said:
Philomath said:
[soundcloud][/soundcloud]
haidut said:
You can find the MAP product itself on Amazon, but it pricy and you can do your own MAP at home for fraction of the cost. The reported ideal amino acid pattern/ratio for humans is as follows (10g total dose):

L-Isoleucine: 1,483mg
L-Leucine: 1,964mg
L-Valine: 1,657mg
L-Lysine: 1,111mg
L-Methionine: 1,429mg
L-Phenylalanine: 699mg
L-Threonine: 1,289mg
L-Tryptophan: 368mg
_______________________
TOTAL: 10,000mg (10g)

You don't have to take 10g doses to get a benefit. Some of the studies above showed strong health benefits from as little as 3.5g of this mixture, taken several times a day with your meals or on an empty stomach.

Keeping this in mind, from the above listed aminos one only needs to supplement with leucine, valine, isoleucine, phenylalanine, lysine, and threonine. While the above doses/ratios have been reported to be optimal, you can simplify it a bit by taking a common BCAA product that usually has the BCAA in ratios 2:1:1 leucine:valine:isoleucine and add 500mg of the remainig amino acids. This means that a single dose of the modified MAP would have 1000 leusine, 500mg valine, 500mg isoleucine, 500 phenylalanine, 500mg lysine, and 500mg threonine. If you want to improve the health effects even more you can add glycine, taurine, or beta alanine to this mixture in any doses you want.
You can take this MAP dose several times a day as needed, with or without food. If you are in favor of using more food sources you can achieve similar effects by eating gelatin and supplementing a single dose of BCAA and 500mg threonine (gelatin is deficient in both).
Thoughts?


I've been wanting to make a protein powder or protein drink for a while now. I recently saw a liquid gelatin protein drink at a local health store and it made me wonder if a liquid/drink is the best route.
I was thinking of dissolving the amino acids in water to make a "Gatorade" type of drink - proteins, minerals, glycine and a fruit juice. Maybe even carbonate it too. Do you think the aminos will dissolve well? Is there any reason NOT to add vitamins or caffeine?

You''ll have to check what is the solubility of each amino in water. I know some of them like glycine or lysine are quite soluble in water but I am not sure about the others such as taurine. In theory, a gelatin drink would only need some threonine and BCAA added to make it a complete protein. So, try it out and let us know.

I just received all my powdered aminos. To your point Haidut, I've read they are not very soluble in most liquids. However I did run across this interesting suggestion:

Alternatively, you can first dissolve in minimal amount of DMSO. Then add your target solvent into DMSO/amino acids mixture.
Clarence T T Wong · The University of Hong Kong, Biotechnology, Biochemistry, Chemical Biology ,PhD


HAidut, IIRC you've posted a few articles outling the benefits of DMSO supplementation. Would this be doubly effective?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Philomath said:
haidut said:
Philomath said:
[soundcloud][/soundcloud]
haidut said:
You can find the MAP product itself on Amazon, but it pricy and you can do your own MAP at home for fraction of the cost. The reported ideal amino acid pattern/ratio for humans is as follows (10g total dose):

L-Isoleucine: 1,483mg
L-Leucine: 1,964mg
L-Valine: 1,657mg
L-Lysine: 1,111mg
L-Methionine: 1,429mg
L-Phenylalanine: 699mg
L-Threonine: 1,289mg
L-Tryptophan: 368mg
_______________________
TOTAL: 10,000mg (10g)

You don't have to take 10g doses to get a benefit. Some of the studies above showed strong health benefits from as little as 3.5g of this mixture, taken several times a day with your meals or on an empty stomach.

Keeping this in mind, from the above listed aminos one only needs to supplement with leucine, valine, isoleucine, phenylalanine, lysine, and threonine. While the above doses/ratios have been reported to be optimal, you can simplify it a bit by taking a common BCAA product that usually has the BCAA in ratios 2:1:1 leucine:valine:isoleucine and add 500mg of the remainig amino acids. This means that a single dose of the modified MAP would have 1000 leusine, 500mg valine, 500mg isoleucine, 500 phenylalanine, 500mg lysine, and 500mg threonine. If you want to improve the health effects even more you can add glycine, taurine, or beta alanine to this mixture in any doses you want.
You can take this MAP dose several times a day as needed, with or without food. If you are in favor of using more food sources you can achieve similar effects by eating gelatin and supplementing a single dose of BCAA and 500mg threonine (gelatin is deficient in both).
Thoughts?


I've been wanting to make a protein powder or protein drink for a while now. I recently saw a liquid gelatin protein drink at a local health store and it made me wonder if a liquid/drink is the best route.
I was thinking of dissolving the amino acids in water to make a "Gatorade" type of drink - proteins, minerals, glycine and a fruit juice. Maybe even carbonate it too. Do you think the aminos will dissolve well? Is there any reason NOT to add vitamins or caffeine?

You''ll have to check what is the solubility of each amino in water. I know some of them like glycine or lysine are quite soluble in water but I am not sure about the others such as taurine. In theory, a gelatin drink would only need some threonine and BCAA added to make it a complete protein. So, try it out and let us know.

I just received all my powdered aminos. To your point Haidut, I've read they are not very soluble in most liquids. However I did run across this interesting suggestion:

Alternatively, you can first dissolve in minimal amount of DMSO. Then add your target solvent into DMSO/amino acids mixture.
Clarence T T Wong · The University of Hong Kong, Biotechnology, Biochemistry, Chemical Biology ,PhD


HAidut, IIRC you've posted a few articles outling the benefits of DMSO supplementation. Would this be doubly effective?

It's possible. Th WIkipedia page on DMSO says it potentiates the effects of steroids and drugs so it may do so with amino acids. If you heat the water that should also increase solubility. Btw, I don't agree with the solubility statement for all amino acids. Some of them are very soluble in water. Lysine is one such amino and glycine is another. I don't know about the rest off the top of my head.
Alternatively, you can stir them with 1oz of yogurt. Even though they would be mixed with other protein they will still have the boosting effects as they will be absorbed first.
 

emmanceb

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What about the insulin response?

Do you just convert the dosage to the food equivalent and go off that as far as carbs?
 

mt_dreams

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emmanceb said:
What about the insulin response?

Do you just convert the dosage to the food equivalent and go off that as far as carbs?

Yes, though I'm not sure what would be the best ratio within the range of 2:1-4:1 carb-aminos. I'm guessing it would be the higher ratio as the aminos might provide more direct protein than food sources.

if you're taking on an empty stomach, you'll need a carb source already broken down into glucose/fructose. Taking the aminos 30 min after a meal (or carbs) will probably ensure they are being digested at the same time as carbs.
 

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