-
By using this site you agree to the terms, rules, and privacy policy.
-
Charlie's Restoration Giveaway #2 (Entire Home EMF Mitigation & Protection Along With Personal Protection) - Click Here To Enter
-
Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...
Rest the rest of this post by clicking here
-
The Forum is transitioning to a subscription-based membership model - Click Here To Read
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion
- Thread starter haidut
- Start date
NathanK
Member
I take my aminos with casein, sugar, fruit, mixed with milk with coconut oil on the side just to ensure better digestion and in case of ameliorating any imbalances.
Not much discussion on the forum about threonine so here's a quick link to it something. it seems it would be pretty "peaty" AA if I ever saw one: http://www.vitaminstuff.com/amino-acid-threonine.html
"Threonine is an essential amino acid that promotes normal growth by helping to maintain the proper protein balance in the body. Threonine also supports cardiovascular, liver, central nervous, and immune system function.
Threonine is needed to create glycine and serine, two amino acids that are necessary for the production of collagen, elastin, and muscle tissue. Threonine helps keep connective tissues and muscles throughout the body strong and elastic, including the heart, where it is found in significant amounts. It also helps build strong bones and tooth enamel, and may speed wound healing or recovery from injury.
Threonine combines with the amino acids aspartic acid and methione to help the liver with lipotropic function, or the digestion of fats and fatty acids. Without enough threonine in the body, fats could build up in the liver and ultimately cause liver failure.
Threonine supports the immune system by aiding in the production of antibodies, and because it is found largely in the central nervous system, may be helpful in treating some types of depression. Threonine supplementation may also be useful for treatment of Lou Gherigs Disease, also know as Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS), because it increases glycine levels in the central nervous system (administering glycine is ineffective, since it cannot cross into the central nervous system). Research indicates that symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis (MS), another disease that affects the nerve and muscle function, may be lessened with threonine supplementation. One 1992 study showed that 7.5 grams of threonine taken daily decreased spastcity among study participants.
Threonine is an essential amino acid, which means it must be obtained from dietary sources. Dairy foods, meat, grains, mushrooms, and leafy vegetables all contain threonine, so threonine deficiency is not likely if you have a balanced diet. However, strict vegetarians or vegans may want to consider threonine supplementation, since meat is by far the more superior source of this amino acid—the threonine content of grains is very low. Symptoms of threonine deficiency include emotional agitation, confusion, digestion difficulties and fatty liver. Threonine is available in protein supplements such as protein powder/bars and amino acid tablets. The standard dose is between 103 and 500 milligrams per day. Exceeding the recommended doses of threonine can disrupt liver function, and cause the formation of too much urea, and consequently ammonia toxicity, in your body."
Typical dosage I see is 2-6g depending on purpose. I can only extrapolate from the above that it may help increase urea production. Something maybe to be aware of if you supplement both at the same time.
I'd love to see if you do any of your more in depth searching on this subject Haidut! Your posts on B vitamins and AAs have been very educational and has given me a lot to look further into. Thank you for your work!
Not much discussion on the forum about threonine so here's a quick link to it something. it seems it would be pretty "peaty" AA if I ever saw one: http://www.vitaminstuff.com/amino-acid-threonine.html
"Threonine is an essential amino acid that promotes normal growth by helping to maintain the proper protein balance in the body. Threonine also supports cardiovascular, liver, central nervous, and immune system function.
Threonine is needed to create glycine and serine, two amino acids that are necessary for the production of collagen, elastin, and muscle tissue. Threonine helps keep connective tissues and muscles throughout the body strong and elastic, including the heart, where it is found in significant amounts. It also helps build strong bones and tooth enamel, and may speed wound healing or recovery from injury.
Threonine combines with the amino acids aspartic acid and methione to help the liver with lipotropic function, or the digestion of fats and fatty acids. Without enough threonine in the body, fats could build up in the liver and ultimately cause liver failure.
Threonine supports the immune system by aiding in the production of antibodies, and because it is found largely in the central nervous system, may be helpful in treating some types of depression. Threonine supplementation may also be useful for treatment of Lou Gherigs Disease, also know as Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS), because it increases glycine levels in the central nervous system (administering glycine is ineffective, since it cannot cross into the central nervous system). Research indicates that symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis (MS), another disease that affects the nerve and muscle function, may be lessened with threonine supplementation. One 1992 study showed that 7.5 grams of threonine taken daily decreased spastcity among study participants.
Threonine is an essential amino acid, which means it must be obtained from dietary sources. Dairy foods, meat, grains, mushrooms, and leafy vegetables all contain threonine, so threonine deficiency is not likely if you have a balanced diet. However, strict vegetarians or vegans may want to consider threonine supplementation, since meat is by far the more superior source of this amino acid—the threonine content of grains is very low. Symptoms of threonine deficiency include emotional agitation, confusion, digestion difficulties and fatty liver. Threonine is available in protein supplements such as protein powder/bars and amino acid tablets. The standard dose is between 103 and 500 milligrams per day. Exceeding the recommended doses of threonine can disrupt liver function, and cause the formation of too much urea, and consequently ammonia toxicity, in your body."
Typical dosage I see is 2-6g depending on purpose. I can only extrapolate from the above that it may help increase urea production. Something maybe to be aware of if you supplement both at the same time.
I'd love to see if you do any of your more in depth searching on this subject Haidut! Your posts on B vitamins and AAs have been very educational and has given me a lot to look further into. Thank you for your work!
mujuro
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2014
- Messages
- 696
Would this be practical for someone who needs ~200g conventional protein from foods to meet requirements of strength training? It would definitely save me some money by using a combination of EAAs and BCAAs in powdered form, rather than buying pounds of meat every week. I feel like all that meat is taxing on my digestion, but what would be the amount I'd require in pure AA powder to equate 200g of conventional protein?
OP
mujuro said:
This is especially relevant for people doing weights. It has been used by many athletes to accelerate recovery. The substitute of 200g protein is probably about 70g of amino acids. Also, you will produce almost no waste like ammonia. If this was available as a shake/snack I would use it as my primary source of protein. With capsules it just looks weird when you are among people. Gobbling up tens of capsules with meals can attract a LOT of attention
Last edited by a moderator:
haidut said:post 102367mujuro said:
This is especially relevant for people doing weights. It has been used by many athletes to accelerate recovery. The substitute of 200g protein is probably about 70g of amino acids. Also, you will produce almost no waste like ammonia. If this was available as a shake/snack I would use it as my primary source of protein. With capsules it just looks weird when you are among people. Gobbling up tens of capsules with meals can attract a LOT of attention
zero calories thing is a bit problematic with that product.And tryphtophan increases fecal volume.
Last edited by a moderator:
Giraffe
Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2015
- Messages
- 3,730
You don't eat those 70 g in one meal. Can't you just carry around your personal "salt" shaker with you?haidut said:post 102367 This is especially relevant for people doing weights. It has been used by many athletes to accelerate recovery. The substitute of 200g protein is probably about 70g of amino acids. Also, you will produce almost no waste like ammonia. If this was available as a shake/snack I would use it as my primary source of protein. With capsules it just looks weird when you are among people. Gobbling up tens of capsules with meals can attract a LOT of attention
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
Giraffe said:post 102441You don't eat those 70 g in one meal. Can't you just carry around your personal "salt" shaker with you?haidut said:post 102367 This is especially relevant for people doing weights. It has been used by many athletes to accelerate recovery. The substitute of 200g protein is probably about 70g of amino acids. Also, you will produce almost no waste like ammonia. If this was available as a shake/snack I would use it as my primary source of protein. With capsules it just looks weird when you are among people. Gobbling up tens of capsules with meals can attract a LOT of attention
I guess I can, it just never occurred to me since I do fine on normal protein. I take the aminos after walking 5-6 miles or doing some sort of heavy physical work, which is not very often so haven't seen the need for the shaker. But you are giving me ideas to try, so thanks.
Last edited by a moderator:
mujuro
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2014
- Messages
- 696
Wow. I've only been meat-free for a little over 2 days but already I am experiencing two improvements. My digestion is excellent, and my stools perfect, if such a thing exists. Sleep is better: general drowsiness surrounding bedtime feels very natural and pleasant. I saw a mention that ammonia is an NMDA receptor agonist, so that would plausibly explain my years of sleep trouble (from years of 150g+ meat protein per day).
jitsmonkey
Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2015
- Messages
- 729
Haidut based upon your original post and the follow up re: BCAA are double-edged sword - they deplete whatever aromatic amino acid is in dearth
I'm trying to figure out in what quantities the additional AAs would be added to maintain the right ratios.
any thoughts on this?
1000 leusine
500mg valine
500mg isoleucine
500 phenylalanine
500mg lysine
500mg threonine
glycine
taurine
beta alanine
tyrosine
I'm trying to figure out in what quantities the additional AAs would be added to maintain the right ratios.
any thoughts on this?
1000 leusine
500mg valine
500mg isoleucine
500 phenylalanine
500mg lysine
500mg threonine
glycine
taurine
beta alanine
tyrosine
haidut said:post 102450Giraffe said:post 102441You don't eat those 70 g in one meal. Can't you just carry around your personal "salt" shaker with you?haidut said:post 102367 This is especially relevant for people doing weights. It has been used by many athletes to accelerate recovery. The substitute of 200g protein is probably about 70g of amino acids. Also, you will produce almost no waste like ammonia. If this was available as a shake/snack I would use it as my primary source of protein. With capsules it just looks weird when you are among people. Gobbling up tens of capsules with meals can attract a LOT of attention
I guess I can, it just never occurred to me since I do fine on normal protein. I take the aminos after walking 5-6 miles or doing some sort of heavy physical work, which is not very often so haven't seen the need for the shaker. But you are giving me ideas to try, so thanks.
I haven't yet got a routine for consistent amino acid supplementation working for me.
I was thinking about making up a batch of powders to last me a week or two, with a mix of amino acids, and maybe calcium carbonate (oystershell) and magnesium glycinate. Mixing it up in a jar and scooping out an appropriate amount to add to something (haven't worked out what yet) 2-3 times a day.
I was wondering about issues like how to make sure it gets and stays well mixed, so you get roughly the same proportions in every dose.
Also, are there potential undesirable interactions between the amino acids and either the Ca carbonate or the Mg glycinate that could become an issue if they are stored mixed for a week or two?
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
jitsmonkey said:
The ratios you list are OK. Glycine, taurine you can add at a dose of 500mg as well. No need for tyrosine as phenyalanine metabolizes in it if needed. Tyrosine is usually only used when you are doing BCAA + tyrosine combo to deplete serotonin.
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
tara said:post 102755haidut said:post 102450Giraffe said:post 102441You don't eat those 70 g in one meal. Can't you just carry around your personal "salt" shaker with you?haidut said:post 102367 This is especially relevant for people doing weights. It has been used by many athletes to accelerate recovery. The substitute of 200g protein is probably about 70g of amino acids. Also, you will produce almost no waste like ammonia. If this was available as a shake/snack I would use it as my primary source of protein. With capsules it just looks weird when you are among people. Gobbling up tens of capsules with meals can attract a LOT of attention
I guess I can, it just never occurred to me since I do fine on normal protein. I take the aminos after walking 5-6 miles or doing some sort of heavy physical work, which is not very often so haven't seen the need for the shaker. But you are giving me ideas to try, so thanks.
I haven't yet got a routine for consistent amino acid supplementation working for me.
I was thinking about making up a batch of powders to last me a week or two, with a mix of amino acids, and maybe calcium carbonate (oystershell) and magnesium glycinate. Mixing it up in a jar and scooping out an appropriate amount to add to something (haven't worked out what yet) 2-3 times a day.
I was wondering about issues like how to make sure it gets and stays well mixed, so you get roughly the same proportions in every dose.
Also, are there potential undesirable interactions between the amino acids and either the Ca carbonate or the Mg glycinate that could become an issue if they are stored mixed for a week or two?
The aminos for the MAP formula are decently soluble in water. You can use this chart to determine how much water/liquid you need.
https://www.anaspec.com/html/amino_acid ... rties.html
However, given the low amount (500mg) of each amino per dose, you should be able to dissolve them all in as little as 100ml of liquid such as apple juice. I don't think water soluble salts of metals like magnesium glycinate will interfere with the aminos, but they do need to be accounted for when dissolving the mix. Magnesium glycinate will add more glycine to the mix. Glycine is not an issue since it is so water soluble, but if it is another amino acid salt like aspartate, arginate, etc then it may affect solubility of the entire mixture.
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
Dean said:
The BCAA + tyrosine is separate form the MAP formula. The MAP formula is for people with poor digestion or comprised state. If it is done without tryptophan then you don't need to do the BCAA + tyrosine combo. The BCAA + tyrosine combo is for people who eat a normal diet (meat, milk, eggs, etc) and want to lower their brain serotonin. It seems to also help with exercise. So, MAP is complete protein replacement for people who don't eat regular protein and can be made to be serotonin depleting as well. The BCAA + tyrosine combo is for normal eaters who want lower serotonin or increased athletic performance.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'd like point that those percentages of NNU from food protein are just theoretical, and the absolute minimum to each food consumed alone. In practice chances are the true NNU you get from a meal are a bit higher since you always eat more protein sources at a time.
What leads me to think it would be interesting to know protein sources that would be complementary for optimal absoption related to that ratio. Aminoacid supplement its an alternative but it would be great to take the most from real food, knowing the amino profile of the main peat aproved protein sources and entering on a calculator which find the best combinations and amounts.
What leads me to think it would be interesting to know protein sources that would be complementary for optimal absoption related to that ratio. Aminoacid supplement its an alternative but it would be great to take the most from real food, knowing the amino profile of the main peat aproved protein sources and entering on a calculator which find the best combinations and amounts.
OP
tara said:
If the amino acids fully dissolve there will be no powder in the liquid. It will be transparent liquid, so nothing left to keep well mixed. Assuming there are no excipients, of course.
Last edited by a moderator:
haidut said:
Yes. But I'm talking about mixing up dry powders in a jar, and taking a scoop of powder a couple of times a day to add to something. I'm concerned that the dry powders might settle out to layers or somehow not stay mixed. This does happen with other powders that have different size and density, eg sugar and flour. Do you think this is likely to happen? Any idea how to prevent? I don't want to eat disproportionately very high lysine (for example - I have no idea which would rise or sink) at the beginning of the week, and hardly any at the end of the week, or the other way around. I think the commercial outfits often use emulsifiers of some kind to help prevent that, and I'm not sure if there is a problem without them.
Last edited by a moderator:
Parsifal
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,081
This is an interesting thread.
Hasn't RP said that protein powders are not good because they are more oxidized?
Hasn't RP said that protein powders are not good because they are more oxidized?
Parsifal
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,081
So it means that dairy is a bad source of protein because there is a lot of nitrogen metabolites from it, hence some people can't tolerate it?
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals
