Zinc Supplements - Clarification On Ray's Comment

[Amazoniac]

It just says <1 ppm

I might be in temporary overload of Tai Lopez and his Lamborghinis, what did you do?
Here's what I did: 100mg of zinc gluconate/10^6 = 0.1mcg of cadmium

 

[Such_Saturation]

I might be in temporary overload of Tai Lopez and his Lamborghinis, what did you do?
Here's what I did: 100mg of zinc gluconate/10^6 = 0.1mcg of cadmium

I don't know lol. I guess that's not too good then...

 

[Amazoniac]

I don't know lol. I guess that's not too good then...

I have no idea if that's a high number, and if all that zinc is capable of impeding its absorption. Do you still supplement?

 

[Such_Saturation]

I have no idea if that's a high number, and if all that zinc is capable of impeding its absorption. Do you still supplement?

It appears that Zn supplements with quite low Cd contamination ( <0.06 mcg Cd / 15 mg Zn ) can be produced."

 

[Amazoniac]

Thanks!

 

[Such_Saturation]

Thanks!

I'm finishing my huge bottle of zinc oysters are probably worse anyway

 

[Amazoniac]

The problem is that it's not entirely available. So, for every 13mg of elemental zinc, you get 7.8mg (60% on average); but if you want 20mg of absorbable zinc, you need about 33mg of the element; that's 2.5x times the original amount. With that, you'd be ingesting 0.25mcg of cadmium everyday (considering the highest value provided); from the supplement alone.
I guess it's one more reason why a diet high in calcium is protective.

 

[Amazoniac]

Zinc gluconate is next to useless. Studies have shown its effect on zinc levels similar to placebo, and personally i found it to be the case.

5mg of zinc picolinate has a greater effect for me than 100mg of gluconate.

Comparative absorption of zinc picolinate, zinc citrate and zinc gluconate in humans (Supported by GNC)

 

[Such_Saturation]

There was a small, insignificant rise in serum zinc during placebo supplementation

lol

 

[Amazoniac]

Idealabs Comments And Suggestions
Carbonic Anhydrase Inhibitors as Cancer Therapy – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[Rickyman]

so what did you end up doing about the supplement Zinc?

 

[johnwester130]

so what did you end up doing about the supplement Zinc?

zinc orotate ?

 

[Rickyman]

zinc orotate ?

oh ok. Thanks.

 

[Amazoniac]

Members that are trying to induce a zinc deficiency at all costs with a "synergistic program" of plenty of white potatoes, chocolate, mushrooms, mangos, guavas, dried prunes and apricots, coffee, and daily bite-size pieces instead of weekly ruminant liver meals;

https://www.researchgate.net/public...m_of_exogenous_and_endogenous_zinc_in_the_rat

If I understood correctly, they gave all rats purified diets that contained small amounts of zinc, on top of that supplemented the diet with zinc chloride (1mg/d) and divided them in controls and picolinic acid-treated (85mg/d) for oral experiment (#1).

More or less the equivalent for humanoids:
8mg/kg zinc
760mg/kg picolinic acid

I don't know how much an average person consumes a day, but let's suppose 2.5kg of food because laboratory rat food is usually dry.
So 20mg and 2g of zinc and picolinic acid per day.
Zinc : picolinic acid in supplements is usually 1:4, here it's almost something like 1:99.
Since some "ligands bind zinc tenaciously", then it can be depleting zinc from the body, especially because it was given separately.

Isotopes of zinc - Wikipedia

Previous work in this laboratory indicated that PA [picolinic acid] increases zinc uptake by both rat duodenal and ileal sacs incubated in vitro, but when it was incorporated into the diet of intact rats maintained in metabolic balance studies, it caused a marked increase in the urinary excretion of zinc (19). These observations suggest that PA increases the transport of zinc across membranes and may merely enhance the turnover of the metal without increasing its retention in the body.

In experiment 1 [oral] total zinc excretion was signficantly higher and zinc retention lower in experimental [picolinic acid] animals than control animals, so the experimental group was in a negative balance of approximately 8% of zinc intake during the collection period.

On each day of the collection period the PA-fed rats excreted a significantly greater proportion of (65)Zn than the corresponding control group (P < 0.001 for both experiments).

The fecal loss of orally administered (65)Zn was significantly greater from rats fed PA than the control group (P < 0.001) as shown in figure 2, but there was no significant difference in the specific activity of feces between the PA-fed and control groups of rats.

Effect of short-term feeding of PA to rats prelabeled with (65)Zn (expt 3 [a few weeks of accustomization to zinc supplementation followed by PA administration]). The rate of (65)Zn loss in the urine was greatly increased for 3 d when the rats were changed to the PA-containing diet (? < 0.001), but it returned to the same as the control animals after the control diet was reinstated on d 4 of the collection period (fig. 3). In both cases there was a delay of 24 h between the alteration in diet and the change in urinary excretion.

Effect of dietary PA on tissue levels of (65)Zn. The three experiments in this series all demonstrated that the effect of dietary PA was to increase the loss of (65)Zn from the body regardless of the route of administration of the isotope or the length of time of feeding the diet containing the ligand.

After absorption from the alimentary tract, PA is likely to interact most readily with zinc in the plasma, as indicated by the reduced activity of (65)Zn in the plasma of PA-fed rats in experiment 2 but not in 3 (table 4). Because of the equilibrium of zinc in plasma and cellular tissues, PA will then be able to influence cellular zinc in an indirect way, but if the ligand readily enters cells it may also do so directly. Our evidence for a general effect of PA on many tissues suggests that it is acting in an indirect way rather than interacting with zinc in specific target organs.

The conclusion that dietary PA enhances the general turnover of zinc has certain implications for its possible use as a therapeutic agent in conditions of zinc deficiency. It may help to ameliorate such conditions in the short term, by mobilizing zinc from deeper pools and making it available, but it seems unlikely to increase zinc retention by the body. Moreover, if given without an adequate intake of zinc, it could exacerbate the depletion over a longer period.

Please question everything that I post, including the values that might not be correct.
People have not been paying attention to this but the real cautionary tale is that a boombox is not a toy.

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[Ella]

If you have zinc:copper ratio 7:1 or 8:1 only from foods, then you don't need supplement with zinc. With Ray Peat approach Beef liver = extremely high copper content and also if you use alot of gelatin-collagen/cocoa etc. which is also high in copper. Then you will have way too high copper to zinc ratio. But people here don't think that zinc/copper imbalance can be an issue. So whatever..

Well said!!!
Oh YuraCZ, some of us care deeply, but it seems like we are waiting forever for other members of the tribe to get it.

Tara, I also freeze my oysters but keep them in their shells. I find they pull apart easily. I just take a few out at a time. So expensive but like liver you only need a little to make a huge impact on health. Take an esky with ice when you buy them. Learn to recognise fresh ones. They should be nice and plump. Their size is dependent on their age. In Australia, December is when they are at their plumpness. Best months are August - January. Just right for Christmas and New Year celebrations. All about balance and bio-availability, when will you guys learn this??? Plenty of zinc in oysters along with other synergistic minerals.

 

[Amazoniac]

Members that are trying to induce a zinc deficiency at all costs with a "synergistic program" of plenty of white potatoes, chocolate, mushrooms, mangos, guavas, dried prunes and apricots, coffee, and daily bite-size pieces instead of weekly ruminant liver meals;

Gelatin.

The reason I'm mentioned that study is because it's being used to condemn zinc picolinate. But perhaps it's enough reason to warrant caution for our homeric supplement company owners..

 

[Dan W]

Comparative absorption of zinc picolinate, zinc citrate and zinc gluconate in humans (Supported by GNC)

I wonder if there was something unusual about the gluconate (or the subjects?) in this study. They show decreased levels in erythrocytes and serum, but other studies find:

• 50mg for 12 weeks (admittedly a longer period) shows giant (on average) serum increases.
• 23mg for 4 months (admittedly a longer period) shows decent serum and erythrocyte increases.

I'll admit to skimming all of those though, so maybe I missed something.

Regarding cadmium, I have trouble deciding how to balance it since it's easy for it to be in food too. For example, oysters love to concentrate it.

 

[Ella]

For example, oysters love to concentrate it.

Years ago I did a little research project in trying to understand why oysters and alga are able to survive in a high cadmium environments. Cadmium is the most toxic heavy metal there is - there are others but cadmium is very nasty. Yet oysters and seaweed seem to thrive and not suffer the toxic effects that other organisms and animals do.

It happens that oysters and seaweeds harbour a commensal organism that lives in a symbiotic relationship. This organism carries a plasmid - it is not part of its genome but outside the genome. This plasmid has a gene sequences like many other bacterial and micro-organisms that are well equipped to resist heavy metal and antibiotic toxicity. They simply pump out the toxic metal in exchange for a less toxic and useful metal. This mechanism is what is operating in anti-biotic resistant strains. These mechanisms are also problematic in cancer therapy. The chemotherapeutic agent is pump out of the cell to prevent toxicity. The pharmaceutical industry have to come up with inhibitors to get the chemo agent into the cell in the first instance. These mechanisms are the reason we are able to employ these organisms to remediate toxic land sites. Not only organisms but also many plants can be employed to remove heavy metals.

I have attached a diagram (Nies & Silver 1995) on how the cadmium resistance mechanism works in oysters. Cadmium is transported across the cell membrane with manganese which causes transcription of the CADCA operon. This causes magnesium and zinc to be transported across the cell membrane which results in cadmium and zinc being pumped out together outside the cell.

Before this project, I too avoided seafood because I had tested high for mercury - not cadmium (I don't smoke). I think I went without seafood for two or more years. My health was perfectly fine eating seafood and it was only after the scaremongering that goes on about heavy metals that I decided to remove seafood from my diet.

My conclusion after my research in this area and learning of the many mechanisms at play in protecting the cells from heavy metals, I wondered why on earth the scaremongering over heavy metals. What was going wrong in people that these mechanisms were not working efficiently? Well, it took quite a few years after this little project to understand the why. I think if you have plenty calcium in the diet, there is no reason why the body would accept a toxic metal like cadmium. A good diet goes a long way in protecting against toxic heavy metals. A sure way to poison oneself is by supplementing.

These heavy metals have been part of our environment in the earth's crust since the beginning of time. We have evolved mechanisms to deal with them.

One oyster is extremely nutrient dense. How many supplements would you need to make up for what one oyster can provide you? Benefits far out weight the risks. One caveat, you should never eat them raw, always cooked and if the cadmium really worries you, have a glass of milk or cheese with them.

Like Ray, I think iron is more problematic and it is ubiquitous in our food supplies, yet I don't here everyone scaremongering, jumping up and down telling us how detrimental it is to our health.

Easter soon, so good excuse to have oysters on the menu again. They are getting nice and plump now. I just ate 6 last night after having them on the menu for Saturday night dinner party. I don't feel any signs of toxicity. But if I eat chocolate, the toxicity from fungal metabolites are immediate for me. I'm sticking to oysters and pray they don't get too expensive.

 

[squanch]

A little off topic, but what do you guys think about the bags of frozen oysters (usually from Korea) that you can buy at Asian supermarkets?

I recently switched to them from fresh oysters, because they are a lot cheaper (0,20 € instead of 2,00 € per oyster).
Does anyone have any information about the conditions those oysters are farmed, compared to something like fresh oysters from France?
This is the brand I'm buying:

 

[Ella]

I would stay away from asian imports. Australian oysters are the best and cleanest your can get. We are really spoilt in Australia as our quality is hard to beat. Contact the wholesalers at the following link and inquire if they are available in your country.

http://australiasoystercoast.com/export-to-the-world/