Zinc supplements away from copper or overrated?

[Motif]

How long should the distance be?

i want to take about 7-9 mg zinc sulphate daily. Will this have influence on copper absorption?

Even when I take it before sleeping for example?

 

[Motif]

And on days we eat really high copper foods like liver - do we need even more zinc then to balance it?
what ratio would you say?

@Amazoniac I saw you talking about this. What would you say?

 

[Amazoniac]

And on days we eat really high copper foods like liver - do we need even more zinc then to balance it?
what ratio would you say?

@Amazoniac I saw you talking about this. What would you say?

- Determination of zinc and copper absorption at three dietary Zn-Cu ratios by using stable isotope methods in young adult and elderly subjects

Spoiler

- Zinc. How Many Mg Do You Take?

 

[Motif]

- Determination of zinc and copper absorption at three dietary Zn-Cu ratios by using stable isotope methods in young adult and elderly subjects

Spoiler

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- Zinc. How Many Mg Do You Take?

Thanks, but I’m too stupid to understand this.
can somebody explain?

 

[Grapelander]

Copper is stable in the body; you would only need to take 2 times per week.
Zinc supplementation; especially with ionophores like quercetin (Zelenko Protocol) will eventually deplete copper.
Chlorophyll sold in store has copper that is absorbed by the body; use this if you do not like liver.

Zinc ionophore activity of quercetin and epigallocatechin-gallate: from Hepa 1-6 cells to a liposome model​

Chlorophyllin: a potent antimutagen against environmental and dietary complex mixtures​

Chlorophyllin supplementation modulates hyperglycemia-induced oxidative stress and apoptosis in liver of streptozotocin-administered mice​

Medical Uses of Copper in Antiquity​

 

[Birdie]

Copper is stable in the body; you would only need to take 2 times per week.
Zinc supplementation; especially with ionophores like quercetin (Zelenko Protocol) will eventually deplete copper.
Chlorophyll sold in store has copper that is absorbed by the body; use this if you do not like liver.

Zinc ionophore activity of quercetin and epigallocatechin-gallate: from Hepa 1-6 cells to a liposome model​

Chlorophyllin: a potent antimutagen against environmental and dietary complex mixtures​

Chlorophyllin supplementation modulates hyperglycemia-induced oxidative stress and apoptosis in liver of streptozotocin-administered mice​

Medical Uses of Copper in Antiquity​

I take copper about once a week. Then, 30mg zinc about 3 times, one of which is with HCQ. Do you think this amount of zinc will deplete my copper? I usually have liver about 7 days a month, but sometimes I can't do that, so it's sporadic. I hope this amount of zinc, only 3 days a week is good enough for you-know-what. I have always wanted to limit it so it wouldn't interfere w other minerals. Kinda hard for me to up it to 3x a week!

That copper is not on a zinc day.
@Amazoniac possible comment too

 

[Grapelander]

I take copper about once a week. Then, 30mg zinc about 3 times, one of which is with HCQ. Do you think this amount of zinc will deplete my copper? I usually have liver about 7 days a month, but sometimes I can't do that, so it's sporadic. I hope this amount of zinc, only 3 days a week is good enough for you-know-what. I have always wanted to limit it so it wouldn't interfere w other minerals. Kinda hard for me to up it to 3x a week!

That copper is not on a zinc day.
@Amazoniac possible comment too

Sounds like you are being very reasonable.
I would still think about chlorophyllin (sodium copper) if you can't get to the liver. Also it does not have any iron, which is an issue for males and older people.
I would avoid copper gluconate as it has poor absorption.

 

[Motif]

What about copper bisglycinate?

issue with chlorophyllin is that most products here don’t say how much copper is in there. And for traveling it’s not good cause you need to put it in the fridge.

i tried one and didn’t feel benefits from it.

Is there a zinc form that won’t deplete copper?

 

[Dave Clark]

What about copper bisglycinate?

issue with chlorophyllin is that most products here don’t say how much copper is in there. And for traveling it’s not good cause you need to put it in the fridge.

i tried one and didn’t feel benefits from it.

Is there a zinc form that won’t deplete copper?

Plus. not all chlorophyllin is copper based. For example, Life Extension's chlorophyllin is magnesium based,

Chlorophyllin, 100 mg, 100 vegetarian capsules - Life Extension

Derived from chlorophyll, a pigment found in plants, Chlorophyllin helps support and maintain DNA health with its DNA-protective and antioxidant properties.

www.lifeextension.com

You may think you are taking a copper based product, and may not be. Best to look into the product you are using.

 

[Motif]

Plus. not all chlorophyllin is copper based. For example, Life Extension's chlorophyllin is magnesium based,

Chlorophyllin, 100 mg, 100 vegetarian capsules - Life Extension

Derived from chlorophyll, a pigment found in plants, Chlorophyllin helps support and maintain DNA health with its DNA-protective and antioxidant properties.

www.lifeextension.com

You may think you are taking a copper based product, and may not be. Best to look into the product you are using.

I had this

Nature's Way, Chlorofresh, flüssiges Chlorophyll, Minze, 132 mg, 473,2 ml (16 fl. oz.)

this has a lot of copper.
Is it sure and proven that this copper is absorbed good by the body?

 

[Amazoniac]

can somebody explain?

They tried doses of zinc in the range that you mentioned and there was no significant difference in copper absorption (young subjects) between diet periods.

The concern is zinc impairing the absorption of copper at higher doses, not the opposite.

In sickness it's better to provide nutrients as steadily as possible because the ability to restore balance from abrupt appearances is poorer and so is the retention.

Copper gluconate is alright, the subjects above probably started from copper sufficiency and the chosen markers are not sensitive to subtle changes.

If the rate of excretion of copper and manganese in bile is greater than the recovery from the intestine (inflammed and infested), there might be a problem over time. Adaptation to conserve will kick in, yet we don't know how far we can count on this and it's not good to rely on a measure that's triggered by insufficiency, downregulation can occur in utilization rather than excretion, which won't be nice.

 

[Motif]

They tried doses of zinc in the range that you mentioned and there was no significant difference in copper absorption (young subjects) between diet periods.

The concern is zinc impairing the absorption of copper at higher doses, not the opposite.

In sickness it's better to provide nutrients as steadily as possible because the ability to restore balance from abrupt appearances is poorer and so is the retention.

Copper gluconate is alright, the subjects above probably started from copper sufficiency and the chosen markers are not sensitive to subtle changes.

If the rate of excretion of copper and manganese in bile is greater than the recovery from the intestine (inflammed and infested), there might be a problem over time. Adaptation to conserve will kick in, yet we don't know how far we can count on this and it's not good to rely on a measure that's triggered by insufficiency, downregulation can occur in utilization rather than excretion, which won't be nice.

Thanks for this!

do you any advice what you would do in my case? I’m sure zinc / copper is what is holding me back for many years, and I‘m not able to solve it

Zinc : Copper - finding the right ratio progress Thread

Neverending Story for me that hopefully will end soon. to sum up the last months: Zinc and copper deficient (low ceruloplasmin too) and this is causing my histamine issues (mostly skin symptoms). i have this for many years, maybe all my life, and when i found out about my low blood levels some...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Amazoniac]

Thanks for this!

do you any advice what you would do in my case? I’m sure zinc / copper is what is holding me back for many years, and I‘m not able to solve it

Zinc : Copper - finding the right ratio progress Thread

Neverending Story for me that hopefully will end soon. to sum up the last months: Zinc and copper deficient (low ceruloplasmin too) and this is causing my histamine issues (mostly skin symptoms). i have this for many years, maybe all my life, and when i found out about my low blood levels some...

raypeatforum.com

If I had to come up with a trace mineral supplement for anyone, each serving would contain:

- 3.5 mg zinc​

- 1 mg manganese​

- 0.5 mg copper​

- 25 mcg selenium​

- 15 mcg molybdenum​

Meant to be taken 2-4 a day (on top of what diet provides). These are guesses that shouldn't upset balance, were considered independently based on typical, low and high intakes, and what's deemed ideal to cover needs.

 

[Motif]

If I had to come up with a trace mineral supplement for anyone, each serving would contain:

- 3.5 mg zinc​

- 1 mg manganese​

- 0.5 mg copper​

- 25 mcg selenium​

- 15 mcg molybdenum​

Meant to be taken 2-4 a day (on top of what diet provides). These are guesses that shouldn't upset balance, were considered independently based on typical, low and high intakes, and what's deemed ideal to cover needs.

i think this is not enough for me. I took much higher doses in zinc and copper and still my levels didn’t go up. My copper is still down and zinc is now up in serum the first time in my life with 45 mg of zinc sulphate. I think sulphate is best absorbed from what I tried

 

[gaze]

i think this is not enough for me. I took much higher doses in zinc and copper and still my levels didn’t go up. My copper is still down and zinc is now up in serum the first time in my life with 45 mg of zinc sulphate. I think sulphate is best absorbed from what I tried

raising the dose higher and higher may help help, but it also might harm by throwing off other things absorption. the selenium and manganese and molybdenum in that protocol probably help utilize the zinc and copper better

 

[Motif]

raising the dose higher and higher may help help, but it also might harm by throwing off other things absorption. the selenium and manganese and molybdenum in that protocol probably help utilize the zinc and copper better

Ok, but I don’t know what to do. When I take lower doses my symptoms are much worse.

 

[Amazoniac]

i think this is not enough for me. I took much higher doses in zinc and copper and still my levels didn’t go up. My copper is still down and zinc is now up in serum the first time in my life with 45 mg of zinc sulphate. I think sulphate is best absorbed from what I tried

Is that at once?

Intake → absorption
45 mg → 6-7 mg
3.5 mg → 1-2 mg ⨯ 4: ~6 mg

It's fine to go higher (especially if there are binders), but consistency is useful when retention is poor. The body has the opportunity to enhance its uptake on every instance that it continues to sense an insufficiency and lower doses won't disturb copper.

- Treatment of Wilson's disease with zinc XII: dose regimen requirements

For the sake of testing, you can also try zinc away from meals, on empty stomach (small amounts).

 

[Motif]

Is that at once?

Intake → absorption
45 mg → 6-7 mg
3.5 mg → 1-2 mg ⨯ 4: ~6 mg

It's fine to go higher (especially if there are binders), but consistency is useful when retention is poor. The body has the opportunity to enhance its uptake on every instance that it continues to sense an insufficiency and lower doses won't disturb copper.

- Treatment of Wilson's disease with zinc XII: dose regimen requirements

For the sake of testing, you can also try zinc away from meals, on empty stomach (small amounts).

3 or 4 times over the day!
I really think my issue might be low stomach acid and that’s why I don’t absorb it well

 

[Amazoniac]

3 or 4 times over the day!
I really think my issue might be low stomach acid and that’s why I don’t absorb it well

Have you investigated the sulfur issues? If I'm not wrong, insoluble complexes with zinc can be formed, which prevent absorption.

 

[Motif]

Have you investigated the sulfur issues? If I'm not wrong, insoluble complexes with zinc can be formed, which prevent absorption.

Not really! But interesting