Zinc Neutralizes PUFAs (polyunsaturated Fats) In Vivo, Is Necessary For Weight Loss And Liver Lipid

natedawggh

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I have gone through three different periods of supplementing zinc. Each time I experienced loss of unwanted fat, increase in muscle mass, disappearance or reduction of the squiggly lines in my vision, and a more consistent stability of my warmth (paired with a restraint of my sweat response). I know zinc is essential for Testosterone and Thyroid synthesis, and in fact after discovering that the chlorine and chloramide in our drinking water reacts with Iodine, Zinc, and other minerals I have avoided tap water (using a filter on my shower), and have been supplementing zinc and iodine in addition to some of the other things I do.

I thought it was interesting that when I first return to supplementing zinc, 30-60mg was enough to make me very nauseous, but that it eliminated my sweating and the severe fluctuations between cold and hot that I still experience. The nausea stops after the first three or four doses. I have also lost an additional 5lbs-ish without changing anything else and feel a lightness in my lower abdomen that has been hard to come by. I came to the conclusion that I have a real problem either absorbing or retaining zinc, because if I supplement 60mg every four hours I don't sweat at all, my toes stay perfectly pink and feel supple instead of stiffening.

This article describes an experiment specifically with fats and zinc deficiency.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/124/10/1917.full.pdf
This is a very interesting because it is also a prime example of why Ray says to read studies and come to your own conclusion, and not to rely on the researcher's. In this study at first the researchers claim one group of rats received coconut oil and the others received fish oil (this is also interesting that they use the two extremes of fats in Ray's work). But reading farther down you find out that the coconut oil rats were fed coconut oil MIXED with safflower oil, which is highly unsaturated.

Interesting results from this study:
•The 3 rats that died before the experiment was finished were on the zinc deficient/fish oil diet. All the others lived to execution (mean scientists!)
•Of the Zinc deficient Rats, the rats with coconut oil developed fatty liver. Contemporary medicine identifies fatty liver as a health hazard, but a Dr. Peat interpretation is that the fat is a protective mechanism against disease, a line of defense. Indeed the rats that died were NOT the ones with fatty liver.
•Rats fed only fish oil had a slightly higher retention of Zinc, but Zinc has been shown to have a role in the desaturation of unsaturated fats, and so seems to have some kind of affinity or association with it in a protective fashion for the organism, hence the greater survival rate of Rats fed fish oil + zinc. and this quote by the study's authors: •"The lower concentrations of linoleic acid in the
present study and a previous study could, however, also be due to increased
oxidation of this fatty acid in zinc-deficient in according to the findings of the present study, this
dividuals."
•So Zinc helps prevents PUFAs from oxidizing which would otherwise have created oxidative damage and associated stress.
•Lipid concentrations were overall much higher in Zinc deficient rats.
 

Mike1234

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

Thank you for sharing. Which type of zinc are you taking/ does it matter?
 

dd99

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

Interesting, thanks! Do you balance your zinc with copper?
 

Nick Ireland

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

Nate, I find zinc very calming, within about 15 mins of an oral 25 or 50mg dose and have spread up to 100mg across the day. If it is working in that timeframe, I'm assuming that it's action must be in the liver because it hasn't time to saturate the tissues or complete a compensatory action of some sort in the total blood volume. IF it is a liver enzyme reaction, then perhaps these unsaturates are being tackled there and losing their excitory and estrogenic qualities before they are released into the bloodstream? I used to think the liver a smallish organ but only the lungs are bigger. It has an enormous storage capacity which can take years to clean out the bad stuff. Possibly it stores 'useful' nutrients until such a time as it cannot hold any more and then it's own enzymatic processes are badly compromised. We see a LOT of folks entering the physiological crash phase of their lives in the 35yrs + demographic. Maybe this is at a point where the liver reaches it's limits and performs on an emergency type level - only doing what it takes to survive and not being able to dump it's toxic load until a new diet can slowly empty it. I often wonder if a Herxheimer is simply a liver unloading due to backfilling of essential nutrition?
 

Tarmander

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

I take zinc sometimes before bed. Could you explain what you mean by desaturazation of unsaturated fats? That seems redundant.
 

haidut

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

I think zinc can be very helpful for some people. I posted a human study showing that zinc prevented the decrease of thyroid hormones due to exercise. To the people finding zinc calming - zinc seems to be effective for depression as it is an NMDA antagonist just like magnesium. So, magnesium + zinc should help with mood and sluggishness. The studies with zinc on depression were all human so that's that. They also used a fairly low doses of magnesium - less than 50mg daily.
 
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natedawggh

natedawggh

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

:idea:
Mike1234 said:
Thank you for sharing. Which type of zinc are you taking/ does it matter?


YES it does actually. Zinc that is chelated to amino acids (such as Zinc Glycinate) is greatly more absorbed and retained in the body than a zinc-mineral complex (such as zinc oxide). For this same reason zinc in or taken with a high protein meal has a greater absorption rate.
 
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natedawggh

natedawggh

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

dd99 said:
Interesting, thanks! Do you balance your zinc with copper?

Yes. Though I think it's only necessary to supplement a small amount.
 
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natedawggh

natedawggh

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

Tarmander said:
I take zinc sometimes before bed. Could you explain what you mean by desaturazation of unsaturated fats? That seems redundant.

Sorry, it was. I guess I meant neutralize (I have made the edit now). Actually it desaturates saturated fats into the few monounsaturated fats necessary for human health (like oleic acid), and conversely complexes with unsaturated fats to prevent their oxidation, and is also used enzymatically to saturate most kinds of PUFAs.
 

aguilaroja

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With no false modesty, I do not understand the full interplay of some minerals, vitamins and nutrients. It seems important to understand the context of deficiency and excess both in general and for individual's metabolism. As haidut notes, zinc augmentation is helpful for some. Some vigilance about zinc effects, and food intake of other nutrients, is also needed.

Kirchgessner, the author cited, has done many studies exploring some interactions. I appreciate the study being brought to our attention, and natedawggh's thoughtful review.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fa ... ion3.shtml

"Several publications between 1936 and 1944 made it very clear that Burr's basic animal diet was deficient in various nutrients, especially vitamin B6. The disease that appeared in Burr's animals could be cured by fat free B-vitamin preparations, or by purified vitamin B6 when it became available. A zinc deficiency produces similar symptoms, and at the time Burr did his experiments, there was no information on the effects of fats on mineral absorption. If a diet is barely adequate in the essential minerals, increasing the metabolic rate, or decreasing intestinal absorption of minerals, will produce mineral deficiencies and metabolic problems."

(my emphasis added in italics)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22410949
Biol Trace Elem Res. 2012 Sep;148(3):371-7. doi: 10.1007/s12011-012-9383-z. Epub 2012 Mar 14.
Vitamin D supplementation modulates blood and tissue zinc, liver glutathione and blood biochemical parameters in diabetic rats on a zinc-deficient diet.
Kechrid Z, Hamdi M, Naziroğlu M, Flores-Arce M.

"The serum, femur, pancreas, kidney and liver zinc concentrations, liver glutathione, serum alkaline phosphatase activity, daily body weight gain and food intake were lower in the zinc-deficient rats in comparison with those receiving adequate amounts of zinc. These values were increased in the zinc-deficient group that was supplemented with vitamin D3."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23354544

Selenium supplementation modulates zinc levels and antioxidant values in blood and tissues of diabetic rats fed zinc-deficient diet.
Biol Trace Elem Res. 2013 May;152(2):243-50. doi: 10.1007/s12011-013-9613-z. Epub 2013 Jan 27.
Fatmi W, Kechrid Z, Nazıroğlu M, Flores-Arce M.

"Inadequate dietary zinc intake increased glucose, lipids, triglycerides, urea, and liver lipid peroxidation levels. In contrast, serum protein, reduced glutathione, plasma zinc and tissue levels were decreased. A zinc-deficient diet led also to an increase in serum glutamate oxaloacetate transaminase, glutamate pyruvate transaminase, and liver glutathione-S-transferase and to a decrease in serum alkaline phosphatase activity and glutathione peroxidase. Selenium treatment ameliorated all the values approximately to their normal levels. In conclusion, selenium supplementation presumably acting as an antioxidant led to an improvement of insulin activity, significantly reducing the severity of zinc deficiency in diabetes."
 

nograde

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IIRC Ray said that B6 is necessary to retain Magnesium an Zinc within the cells and interestingly some effects of high dose zinc supplementation can be achieved with a much lower dose when B6 is added. So, if you say you have problems with retaining zinc try B6.

And then there are those ideas of something in your plasma that binds zinc, making it unavailable to your tissue (Pyroluria). This Case-study shows that this may indeed be possible in some cases:

http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v42/n2 ... 2296a.html
A Case of Hyperzincemia with Functional Zinc Depletion: A New Disorder?
 

nograde

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism

haidut said:
I think zinc can be very helpful for some people. I posted a human study showing that zinc prevented the decrease of thyroid hormones due to exercise. To the people finding zinc calming - zinc seems to be effective for depression as it is an NMDA antagonist just like magnesium. So, magnesium + zinc should help with mood and sluggishness. The studies with zinc on depression were all human so that's that. They also used a fairly low doses of magnesium - less than 50mg daily.

I also find Zinc calming within an hour or so, especially when I feel supercharged (with adrenaline?) having an anxious, jittery "hyper" feeling. There were times where I couldn't make it through the morning without 60mg. I had those episodes when I was drinking 2l milk/day thinking it was doing me good. I wonder if zinc simply acutely lowers metabolism, covering up any deficits when being in overdrive. I remember Dewitt from peatarian.com posting studies showing exactly that. He wanted to talk me out of zinc-megadoses, calling it "insane". I think Ray has a similar stance ...
 

Amazoniac

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0.928g of daily total fat
10.6% vs 38.4% that were from PUFA
~0.098g vs ~0.356g of daily PUFA intake (isolated, lightly heated and supplemented with some synthetic form of vit E + selenium – I have no idea how they all interact with each other in here) for a 109g rat.
1:105 vs 1.6:1 – their n3:n6
Human equivalence:
~899mg/kg vs ~3266mg/kg in rats, that you yield:
~145mg/kg vs ~526mg/kg in humans, that you yield:
~10.1g vs ~36.8g of daily PUFA in a 70kg person
 

docall18

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Re: Zinc Desaturates PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) in Vivo, is necessary for Weight Loss and Liver Lipid Metabolism



I also find Zinc calming within an hour or so, especially when I feel supercharged (with adrenaline?) having an anxious, jittery "hyper" feeling. There were times where I couldn't make it through the morning without 60mg. I had those episodes when I was drinking 2l milk/day thinking it was doing me good. I wonder if zinc simply acutely lowers metabolism, covering up any deficits when being in overdrive. I remember Dewitt from peatarian.com posting studies showing exactly that. He wanted to talk me out of zinc-megadoses, calling it "insane". I think Ray has a similar stance ...

I think Ray Peat is against mega dosing zinc as supplements can contain impurities. He believes people should regularly consume high zinc foods however, such as shellfish. He also indicates that extra zinc is required when raising metabolism. I have great effect from zinc supplements (and B6), when i take anything that raises metabolism. Possibly from its interaction with released PUFA's.

Bromocriptine is an antagonist of serotonin. From Dr. Peat –
I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to say regardin “EFA deficiency” because you left no commentary. The skin condition associated with “EFA deficiency” is a result of a very high metabolic rate and the requirement of more nutrition (like B6 and zinc for instance) as a result. The “EFA” lower the metabolic rate, decreasing the need for nutrients apparently “curing” the condition yet with a different perspective is just another toxic effect of PUFA
 
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So does zinc "neutralize" or "desaturate" PUFA?
 

LucH

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So does zinc "neutralize" or "desaturate" PUFA?
enzymes delta-5 and delta-6 desaturase need zinc
d-6 zinc b6 and Mg.
Underneath as an axample for linoleic acid (w6)
d-5 zi
Enzyme pathway Schema 80 %.gif
nc niacin vit C
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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