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Zinc - My Miracle For Acne & Estrogen Dominance

  1. Well, I think that since it's been over a week of success, I can say that zinc is one of the best things on earth.

    Nothing has ever worked this well for my skin with no side effects. My skin hasn't been this clear in over three years. And even back when it was clear, it didn't look this good overall. The tone and texture are nicer. The oil is normal instead of the thick, tenacious oil that I had almost all the time for the last few years. No more cysts. I'm still getting a few small pimples here and there, but they are easily managed. The last old cyst that was sitting on my upper neck is just a dry bump that's almost gone. Even the acne on my chest has become very small bumps instead of the larger red spots.

    I took my first 50 mg. of zinc last week, and almost immediately, I felt the calming effect on my skin. Acne lesions that had been there for over a week dried up and started going away within an hour or two of that first pill. Zinc completely calms inflammation. Redness reduced, pain from inflamed skin gone. Cysts that were trying to come up from deep underground were stopped with zinc.

    Zinc has taken care of my fibrocystic breasts. That constant ache that made me reach for aspirin several times per day is gone.

    My dosage has varied each day.

    So here's the breakdown of zinc each day since last Wed. and this includes supps and foods such as oysters:
    Wed - 110 mg.
    Thurs - 60 mg.
    Fri - 60 mg.
    Sat - 40 mg.
    Sun - 60 mg.
    Mon - 110 mg.
    Tues - 200 mg.
    Wed - 70 mg.

    How did I know how much to take? That's the beauty of it. I just literally use my skin as the guide. If I felt a painful spot, a bump, whatever, I took about 25 mg. Some days were less eventful skin-wise than others. For example, I was having to take zinc every 3 - 4 hours yesterday to keep oil and bumps down. I took about 200 mg. total and that included food. But today my body seems to have compensated by my skin being under much better control, and I've only needed around 70 mg (that included foods).

    I felt this was an instinctual way to go about it, rather than keep taking super high doses just because, or to take doses too small and then it wouldn't be enough to do the job. My body has rewarded me with no side effects, just results.

    I also felt like perhaps over time I wouldn't need such high doses or might be able to get what I needed from food.

    Not everyone needs zinc the way I do, so that's not the reason for my post. I just have to share this. There may be someone who needs to read it and then they can research and come to their own conclusions. I really think it's an individual thing, and I just happened to hit on my missing nutrient and doses based on research I did here on the forum and around the net, as well as my own instinct.

    I remember last week when I first took a 50 mg. pill, I had a little upset tummy but I realized later that was because I took it on an empty stomach. Since then I've had no trouble at all with taking it on an empty stomach, though I do try to remember to take it with food or drink just in case.

    A couple hours after that first zinc pill, I cooked up some oysters. Within an hour or two of eating those, I had this really good mood and my vision seemed enhanced. I don't know if that really happened from the zinc or that was some other thing going on, who knows. I might have been having a blood sugar thing. Or it might have been the effect of the big doses of zinc washing through me.

    At any rate, I am happy.

    Believe it or not, I have even more to say on zinc later. As well as some words from the man himself.
  2. Ironically, I tried zinc about 15 years ago when I came off my veganism and the Pill and had the worst acne ever. I was desperate for a natural cure but also desperate for any cure so I was seeing a derm. Somewhere on the net I read about zinc and acne, and started taking it. I remember having some positive results, though I was taking a regular dose (can't remember how many mg. now but I'm sure it was just a pill per day, maybe not even 50 mg).

    I'd been taking the zinc almost a month with pretty good results. At least better than anything else I'd tried. The next time I went to the derm, I told him I was taking zinc and that it seemed to be helping. He just gave me an incredulous look and said, "It's never been proven to help acne." And that was that.

    That kind of set me back mentally, though I kept taking the zinc for a while. But then my acne did get worse again and I just gave up on zinc. I'm sure I thought it just another useless waste of time and money, and that it had worked at first but then stopped working. But now I think that the improvement I saw back then was because it was helping. I just wasn't taking enough to completely remove my acne and I wasn't altering my dose according to need like I am now. So the flare up in the end was probably a hormonal shift that would have required more zinc.

    So I wanted to add that to the thread. Zinc has a history of helping me, though my state of mind and diet were not the best back then (metabolism was wrecked from Pill, veganism, anxiety, depression, no sun, etc.) and I gave up on zinc unlike now.
  3. I was reading last week in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1491&hilit=zinc+acne

    And Edward said some things that caught my eye.

    If you are eating liver and your acne still reoccurs it is because you are not getting enough zinc. If you take a large dose of Vitamin A and acne temporary goes away it is because of the thyroid suppressing aspect of the large dose. If your zinc intake is insufficient you cannot metabolize Vitamin A efficiently. If zinc is sufficient your requirement for Vitamin A will decrease. Vitamin A metabolism is dependent on zinc status.

    One can go in and out of this honeymoon period for a long time is one is not eating enough. Feeling warm, feeling cold, up and down. The up and down usually is a sign your doing something right, and means you just need to give it time and eat enough of the appropriate foods.

    Saying that pulse and temperature is normal with large doses of Vitmain A is a legitimate consideration. However, it is a rather pharmacological mentality as it is symptom treatment, much like drinking 50 cups of coffee, feeding rats the polyunsaturates, etc. If you have to micro manage what you eat, something is wrong. And again, that is not to say that micro managing is not justified in the beginning, but that is to say if your constantly struggling to control health taking more and more of substance is not going to get you very far, as I said, if you are constantly having to take large doses of Vitamin A, then it is likely you need more Zinc and possibility more of the B vitamins.

    Outside of that what I've observed in most people, is that it is simply a matter of eating more carbohydrate, nutrient density is important however nutrients are useless if the body can't use them, much like a car with a fresh oil change and fresh fluids, that's good, but you won't get anywhere without a tank of gas.


    Most of the supplemental Zinc dosages throughout different studies were fairly low compared to what one might get in a single oyster, yet there is improvement in acne. I think there was a few where Zinc alone out performed Vitamin A and Zinc combined.

    I do think that living in a sunny climate does require more Vitamin A—but in my opinion—not much more than you would get if you were eating eating 2-4 ounces of liver daily. However, what is also important to consider is that people living in sunny climates traditionally ate a lot critters of that were rich in Zinc—daily.

    He lists anecdotal accounts:

    One woman I advised had severe cystic acne, she felt that if she only consumed enough liver that there would be improvement, and there was minor improvement but nothing miraculous. First I told her to continue eating her liver which she was eating 4 ounces 3 or 4 times a week but to stop washing her face with product and only wash with water. Within about 2 weeks there was noticeable improvement. Then I told her to reduce her liver intake to 4 ounces once a week and to eat either 1-2 oyster a day or a stack of them in one day once a week. I also told her to reduce her red meat to 4 ounces one or two times a week and replace those meals with more milk products, starch, and fruit. After about 2 weeks new acne stopped appearing and from there out her face began to heal. It’s been several years and with each passing year her scaring becomes less and less visible. She lives on the coast in a sunny climate and is outside all the time.

    Another woman I advised was in her 50’s she was having trouble losing about 10 pounds and her skin was fairly clear but she had persistent white and black heads (blackheads on the nose, white heads in the chin area). She was eating about 1800 kcals a day. I told her to include oysters and shrimp in her diet and to drink more milk products, and in particular eat more starch in the form of white potato. She didn't eat liver as frequently but she did eat about 4 ounces periodically. I also told her to eat about 1000 kcals more than she was eating. In two weeks she lost 10 pounds eating more than she had ever eaten in her life. In 4 weeks the white and blackheads were gone and her pale skin turned to a healthy tan color despite working in an office setting and not getting a lot of outdoor time. She eats more than her husband who is obese. For whatever reason potato seems to be effective at eliminating blackheads, I’m not exactly sure of the mechanism. There is some evidence that Vitamin B6 plays an indirect role.


    His own account:

    There was a period of time where my skin was dry and I was drinking plenty of milk, eating plenty of liver, and zinc seemed sufficient. One day I decided to drink lemonade over the day so I sipped on that for several hours and the next day there was a dramatic improvement in skin quality. So I repeated that several days while somewhat reducing my milk intake, and my skin continued to improve. Despite eating less daily nutrients.

    If you are stressed the idea of sipping on lemonade or another fruit juice throughout the day works for a couple reasons, but primarily it's an effective way at suppressing free fatty acids. If you suppress free fatty acids stress goes down and your body can begin to heal. And once you become glycogen replete the sipping becomes optional.

    Over a long period of time I have noticed that if you are eating enough nutrient rich carbohydrate whether it be potato or orange juice that overall nutrients are used more efficiently.


    I went ahead and confirmed with Ray what I wrote since I could detect some resistance to the mechanism I was describing, here is what he had to say:

    "If a person is already hypothyroid, 8 ounces of liver a week could be enough to make it worse, so it's essential to watch for its effects. There are several ways that zinc and vitamin A interact, supporting protein and steroid synthesis and cell differentiation."

    "it" being acne.

    So I would experiment with reducing iron intake and increasing zinc intake. It may be that reducing iron enough will be sufficient to bring up zinc levels but if that doesn't you would want to experiment with zinc rich foods.
  4. I paid a lot of attention to what Edward said. His posts got me researching all over the net on zinc and acne and my other symptoms too.

    If anyone is interested, they should read through the whole thread that I posted above.
  5. From Ray Peat to me regarding zinc and what I've experienced:

    It helps to maintain progesterone synthesis, and is needed for many
    other processes related to the skin. It's an oxidant, so using it
    regularly as a supplement can interfere with vitamins in the diet. Once
    the body's stores are replenished, they can probably be replenished with
    natural foods.

    Biol Reprod. 2012 Jan 19;86(1):1-8.
    Copper/zinc superoxide dismutase insufficiency impairs progesterone
    secretion and
    fertility in female mice.
    Noda Y, Ota K, Shirasawa T, Shimizu T.
    Molecular Gerontology, Tokyo Metropolitan Institute of Gerontology, Japan.
    Copper/zinc superoxide dismutase (CuZn-SOD, SOD1) is one of the major
    enzymes, and is localized in the cytoplasm to scavenge superoxide. To
    the physiological role of SOD1 in the ovaries, we analyzed the fertility of
    Sod1-deficient female mice. To evaluate their hormonal metabolism, we
    pituitary and ovarian hormone levels in the plasma of the mutant mice.
    follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, and estradiol were
    not altered
    in the mutant compared to the wild-type females, while the plasma
    level was significantly reduced in the mutant females. Furthermore, the
    mice showed decreased progesterone secretion under the condition of
    superovulation. In a histochemical analysis, we observed a remarkable
    in the corpus luteum area in the mutant ovaries without atrophic
    changes. The
    mutant mice also displayed enhanced superoxide generation in the region
    surrounding the corpora lutea, which was associated with increased apoptotic
    cells and suppressed vasculature. These results suggested that SOD1
    dysregulated luteal formation because of increased superoxide generation
    in the
    ovary. In vitro fertilization experiments showed no abnormal
    fertilization of
    Sod1-deficient oocytes. In addition, when Sod1-deficient embryos were
    into the oviducts of wild-type females, mutant embryos developed at a normal
    rate, indicating that SOD1 deficiency in embryos did not cause
    miscarriage in the
    uterus of wild-type females. These results indicated that increased
    ROS impaired luteal formation and progesterone production in the mutant
    thus suggesting that SOD1 plays a crucial role in both the luteal
    function and
    the maintenance of fertility in female mice.
  6. THANK YOU!!
    I'm really excited about this zinc thing.

    My story:
    So, growing up I didn't have bad acne, but I had some zits that seems to correspond somewhat with my cycle. But I pretty much always had a couple and then for a short while each month I'd get a decent amount. Nothing too bad though and I never really referred to it as acne.. just zits/breakouts. At the time though I had a great metabolism.. I could each whatever I wanted and my weight stayed the same. I'm short (little over 5'2"), but I was a size zero freshman year no matter how much food I stuffed in my mouth LOL. It was a fun time. I knew I was most likely zinc deficient though as I had white spots on my nails all the time and my nails would split a lot. I was young though and didn't care much. Then I gained a few lbs at about 19 and became concerned about my weight. Sadly I wasn't heavy at all I just thought I was. Which led me to start looking into nutrition. Then I became a vegetarian at 21 and everything went downhill from there.

    I quickly became a vegan for a couple years then veg again and then paleo and now have been starting more Peat things. During my vegan/veg times everything went horribly for me. I gained quite a bit of weight, my teeth are ridiculously bad now, my hair started getting split ends, my nails stayed bad, I now have keritosis pilaris on my arms and legs and face, I have fordyce spots on my lips, I have horrible stretch marks on my thighs (no children though), and gluten seems to bother my immune system (though I don't feel bad when I eat it) by inflaming lymph nodes.

    Anyways... acne... It went away almost completely when I went gluten free and very very little dairy. Since starting more Peat eating it has come back and with a vengence. As long as I stay away from gluten it rarely happens on most of my face, but the I have been getting bad cyctic acne on my jaw line, neck and chest. I thought it was the dairy.. and I do think it's linked, but I'm also wondering about the zinc thing. As one of the best things about when I was strict paleo/dr kruse style was that the lack of grains seemed to help in the assimilating minerals/vitamins better (tho it messed with my thyroid).

    It has been following my cycle almost exactly now. But, last wk all of a sudden things just randomly started getting better then got worse again, but I couldn't figure out what had made the difference for a few days. Now that you wrote this I think it was the zinc I took. Since I have KP and I had genetic testing done and know I have a gene that corresponds to a 35% less ability to assimilate Vit A from non retinol sources and some have linked it to a lack of vit A... (though liver never helped with mine).. I on occasion take Vit A. When I take it I also take zinc as I know it helps to assimilate vit A. But I only have been taking it sporadically for a few reasons... I don't want too much A, I might also have some genes that lead to either high or low copper and I know zinc is n opposition to it... I'm too poor to get any tests to know my copper levels though.

    So, I think I will try what you have been doing as it sounds so much like my issues. I'm really excited for this to be a possibility..and I wonder if maybe it will end up helping my KP as well.. since Vit A doesn't seem to be working for me like it does other people's KP.

    If it works I will write back with my experience. Is there a certain type of zinc you take? I have the 50mg tablets as well in Zinc Gluconate.

    I'm excited that it seems to work right away for you so I hopefully won't have to wait wks/mths to see if it's working. I will start tomorrow as I have some cyctic acne and some regular ones as well right now. :)
  7. Here is a quote from an old post by Rayser
  8. @lovelife - You will be especially interested in reading that whole thread I linked, about Vitamin A and Acne. Here it is again in case you haven't read it: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1491&hilit=zinc+acne

    I also made sure I was getting adequate Vitamin A in my diet when I started the zinc. I get 4,000 - 8,000 iu in diet, more on day I have liver. Also I make sure my B6 is up, since I've also read there are connections with A, B6, Zinc. I get 3 - 6 mg.

    I use gluconate. It's just what I had in the cabinet.

    @Mittir - My goal is to be able to use food alone for zinc eventually. I initially didn't want to use supplements, and Edward didn't promote zinc supplement use or high doses either, just in case anyone thinks that. He promoted zinc through food. It's just that for my specific condition, oysters weren't enough. I feel that I had to get on top of this problem and get it under control first, which is what seems to be happening.
  9. When I was looking up info on zinc over the last week, I also came across some info about zinc and breast cancer, and also prostate cancer. So there is a lot more to know and I think everyone has to make the choice for themselves to supplement or not. I don't think using high dose supplements long term will be wise.
  10. @lovelife - I wanted to add that I track my nutrients in cronometer and make sure I'm covered there with everything (80 g. protein, higher calcium to phosph, low PUFA, magnesium, D, etc.) And I worked on diet and supplementing for 6 months to help thyroid. The acne seemed to be one of the last pieces of the puzzle I couldn't find a fit.
  11. http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Zinc-H ... fessional/

    Health Risks from Excessive Zinc

    Zinc toxicity can occur in both acute and chronic forms. Acute adverse effects of high zinc intake include nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, and headaches [2]. One case report cited severe nausea and vomiting within 30 minutes of ingesting 4 g of zinc gluconate (570 mg elemental zinc) [81]. Intakes of 150–450 mg of zinc per day have been associated with such chronic effects as low copper status, altered iron function, reduced immune function, and reduced levels of high-density lipoproteins [82]. Reductions in a copper-containing enzyme, a marker of copper status, have been reported with even moderately high zinc intakes of approximately 60 mg/day for up to 10 weeks [2]. The doses of zinc used in the AREDS study (80 mg per day of zinc in the form of zinc oxide for 6.3 years, on average) have been associated with a significant increase in hospitalizations for genitourinary causes, raising the possibility that chronically high intakes of zinc adversely affect some aspects of urinary physiology [83].

    The FNB has established ULs for zinc (Table 3). Long-term intakes above the UL increase the risk of adverse health effects [2]. The ULs do not apply to individuals receiving zinc for medical treatment, but such individuals should be under the care of a physician who monitors them for adverse health effects.
  12. So far today I've only had 20 mg. zinc (this is from both food and supp. - I can break the pills down into 12.5 mg pieces).

    Skin is staying nicely calm as of 2 p.m. without the high doses needed in the last week....
  13. Peata, what supplement zinc are you using.

    I have to admit my interest is piqued with the zinc stuff. I remember watching someone talk about it often on another forum. And then when edward talked about it my ears definitely perked up and I have tried to increase my oysters since then.

    I wonder, and this is only a theory and I dont truly understand how all this zinc and vitamin A stuff works on a scientific level. So this is just a guess from my observations. I wonder if metabolism raises, beyond the amount of zinc that is available for an individual, then, all the skin stuff starts happening, then people take a bunch of vitamin A and that lowers the metabolism back down so that you now needs less zinc and then skin stuff stops happening because of the lower needs of zinc now. Hope that makes sense. :lol:
  14. Charlie, It's just Sundown Naturals brand. I bought it either at Walmart or Kroger. I'm sure it has the bad additives, but it's just what I already had in my cabinet. I bought it in spring 2012 after spending some time reading about zinc and acne, but I took very little and quit promptly after reading scary things about too much zinc.

    It's zinc gluconate, btw.

    Your theory may have truth, I just know my problems with acne reach far, far back into my life. Some disturbance in the metabolism from a young age, resulting in PCOS, anxiety issues and all that.
  15. Well definitely please keep us posted. This could possibly be a big link for people. :hattip
  16. Great post, thanks for rounding up all this useful info. I've been inspired to take in more oysters and see what I notice.

    Just ate a can and I swear my skin is more healthy looking already. Who knows.

    Anyways, i've seen some of the same benefits you refer to by abstaining from all forms of sexual activity as well. Usually takes about a week to notice a difference especially in hair and skin quality. Maybe something to look into, and might only be for men. Dunno. Someone should try and connect the dots
  17. I can attest to this as well. Sexual activity does tend to increase the chance of acne forming in both sexes from what I've read on the internet. I'm not totally sure of the mechanism(s) involved but for men I seem to remember it being an increase in sebum production and I would guess a zinc deficiency as well since there's a lot of zinc in semen. (maybe not soo much after looking further into it)

    It's pretty easy to see for oneself. Just maintain some abstinence for awhile and notice the difference. Then screw around a bit :lol: (pun intended) and notice a difference again... :2cents
  18. Ari, Marcar, that's interesting. I read that a man loses 3 mg. of zinc per ejaculation. If someone was already deficient in zinc, not replacing it adequately in diet, or not utilizing zinc well, I can see how this could cause a problem.

  19. Hmm yeah, the zinc thing might explain it. I looked into it as well and 3mg doesn't sound like much but that's probably not the whole picture, and as with all things, the levels probably fluctuate depending on the health and vitality of the individual.

    And if it all does tie back into zinc, then that gives this thread another boost. Gonna really make sure I get a lot of zinc in and see if I notice any differences.
  20. I don't have a problem with acne, but it's interesting any time someone gets such clear results from something they are doing. Glad you are posting about this!
  21. I haven't had a cyst in days. Normally I'd have at least one new one per day, or if not a new one, then the ones I had would sit there all inflamed, painful, looking awful.

    I'm getting a smallish pimple here and there, but that I can deal with. Overall, my skin feels smoother, soft, normalized as far as oil, and no inflamed painful bumps.
  22. That is great! I remember that my Vietnamese sister (parents sponsored her after the Vietnam War) developed acne problems when she came to this country. Probably it was due to all the stress of leaving her family and country under those kind of conditions, plus the strange food. It eventually cleared up, but left a little scarring. She lived at a camp until she could be transferred to live with us. We were enthusiastic and caring sponsorers, and she had a lot of spunk, but it must have been quite an adjustment for her.
  23. Update: Well it's been two days since I've been experimenting and so far no noticeable results. But, I started much lower in the dosing than Peata I believe. Yesterday I had 50 mg and today I've had about 75. So, I'm still much lower than you have been. I haven't noticed any healing yet and I got a new cystic zit today. So, tomorrow I'll up it to 100mg and see how that goes. I don't want to overdue it as I don't have any copper right now so I don't want to lower my copper too low. I know the upper limit is supposedly 40 mg for an adult female... so I'm easily surpassing that which I don't want to get too carried away with. So, I'm trying to go slow for now. Don't feel bad at all or any different really so I think I'm ok for now.

    After a few more days I'll update again. If I don't get any results and I get to about 200mg then I think I'll stop going super high in dosing and just go back to my regular of about 50mg every few days. Hopefully I get results... that would be awesome. :)
  24. Just to clarify, only twice since I started have I taken more than 50mg. per day of zinc from a supplement. The rest of it has been filled in with zinc-rich foods, usually oysters.
  25. lovelife, are you using cronometer or another tracking program to make sure you're getting all the nutrients? As I said, I keep track of mine and make sure I'm eating liver once per week, oysters, and other Peaty nutritious foods to get vitamin A, copper and everything else. I do supplement with some E, magnesium oil, but I think that's it except for the zinc.

    Hope you see success.
  26. Ice Cream

    I ran into my first snag since I started with Zinc.

    Ice cream.

    I ate probably 12 - 16 oz. last night. First I had about 1 cup because I had been feeling stressed and that calmed me wonderfully. Then I decided I wanted to extend that, or intensify it, whatever. Maybe I just wanted more ice cream. So I had more.

    I woke up this morning with a painful pimple on my left jawline and my first cyst on the right side of chin near jawline. It was a big, painful lump under skin. And that was with a total of 170 mg. zinc yesterday from a supplement and food.

    I took 25 mg. zinc. this morning after finding the acne. Now, a couple hours later, the pimple has calmed and the cyst has shrunk to where I almost can't find it, and it's barely sore when I touch it.

    Ice cream. From my experience a couple nights ago, I think I can have about 1 c. per day with the zinc and not get inflamed. But if I go by last night's experience, more than 1 c. looks like a problem.
  27. No problems with cysts and other dairy, btw. I drink 1% milk, cups of it daily. I use some cheese and other dairy here and there.

    Something about large amounts of ice cream.
  28. Maybe all the fat, from the cream? Messes with metab somehow? Just speculating...
  29. I have problems with ice cream as well. I've since stopped eating it. My best guess was the added sugar that they throw in. I seem to react negatively to anything with pure sugar thrown in. Fruit and honey give me no problems at all, but as soon as I sweeten something with sugar, rock candy, or eat something like ice cream, I have small problems.

    Just my best guess, might be completely wrong.

    As far as the zinc goes, I had high doses 2 days in a row (from oysters), and today being the third day, my body is telling me to calm down and not eat more. I'll have to see how I feel tomorrow. But my hair feels smoother, like silk or something. Pretty cool.
  30. Thanks Peata. :)

    Update #2: So, I believe it's been 2 more days since my last update. And wouldn't you know that the morning after I write that post I wake up and my face is drastically better. All of the cystic acne was calmed down and finally drying up/going away. I had a few regular zits that were still hanging around, but they had all come to a head/the surface. It's about the time last month when I started getting it really bad on my jawline and so far I only have a tiny bump that I'm not sure will even show up. I did eat some gluten recently so that is probably what's going on with the front of my face, but I'm looking more for getting rid of the cystic acne which seemed to be cycle based and with dairy use. I'm drink more and more milk though so I'm hoping I can get a handle on it and it'll all be fine. Yesterday I had 100mg I think... and the day before that I had 75mg. Today I've had 25mg so far, but I'll probably be around 75mg by the end of the day.. we'll see though.

    I only sometimes track in cronometer... but I usually have about 15-20 mg from food. I have been taking my Vit A 8,000IU the last couple days as well. I'm usually sporadic on that.. but I'm thinking that it seems to be working better now that I'm upping the Zinc. But, I'm not positive. My nails are doing great though. :)

    I don't have money for oysters.. and though I might be able to afford 1-2 cans of them over a 14 day period.. I don't really know how to eat them like that and it sounds pretty nasty tbh. LOL. I haven't been eating liver though I do have it. I just REALLY hate liver and can only swallow frozen pieces like pill sized.. and that takes forever. When I have money for some more ground beef I will see about mixing it together as I dont mind that usually.

    I also have Vit E that I take on occasion or use the oil. I take D3 as well of course.

    So, it seems to be going well. I haven't noticed any symptoms of low copper or high zinc from it so far.. I've been paying attention.. I don't think I"ll keep this high doses for too long.. I'm thinking maybe I just needed to replenish my stores or something... and then maybe things will get better. But I do think that I might need to always take higher doses of Zinc as even as a teen when I was extremely healthy with an excellent metabolism I needed to zinc supplement. Like I said though I have some genetic stuff that may predispose me to high copper and if that's the case then it would make sense that my zinc stores would be lower than normal since they oppose each other.
  31. Yes I know zinc supplementing is not totally Peaty but does anyone know of the best one to take if you did want to supplement?
  32. lovelife, I'm glad to hear it's working for you. I'm with you, I think I have to replenish my stores and then maybe I can get by with food-zinc alone. That's what RP said too: Once the body's stores are replenished, they can probably be replenished with natural foods.

    But also like you, I may always have to take a little extra. Will just have to see how it goes.
  33. Ray recommends me either zinc sulfate or zinc gluconate.
    10mg and no more than two weeks as it should be enough to correct any deficiency.
  34. Peata, how is the zinc supplementing going? Thinking about ordering some tonight.
  35. Still going fine. The "ice cream cyst" that started to form was a huge sucker under my skin, but after I took zinc, it started shrinking away as I described before. It formed into two large pimples that hung around, never came to a head, and are just now shrinking away starting this morning.

    I haven't been taking as much zinc lately though.

    No problems with it - no signs of toxicity, no stomach issues.
  36. Update #3: Zinc is a miracle!! LOL. Seriously though things have been going well. Yesterday I only took about 50 mg while day before I took 75mg again. I'm usually still getting about 15-20 mg/day from food as well. I am taking my Vit A with it now and I think that is helping somewhat too.

    My face isn't completely clear, but I haven't had any new breakouts for a few days now. Most of my previous cystic ones and regular zits are mostly gone now. They're still visible, but healing nicely.

    Another possible thing that may be more of a coincidence.... is for the last 2 months I think I had a cyst on my ovary. I've never been diagnosed with PCOS as I don't have most of the normal symptoms and my cycle has always been consistent though at a shorter time frame at about 25 days. I have had a cyst before when I was about 16-17. Anyways, it felt like there was one, but so far nothing this month. Now that can easily be coincidence as it might of just disappeared on it's own. But my acne has followed my cycle for awhile now so who knows. :)

    I have about 2-3 more wks to go and then I will have completed and entire cycle with this zinc supplementing. So, I hope it keeps working and if all goes well then I will start cutting back some to see what happens.

    Still no side effects that I've noticed. Only thing is if I take it on an emptyish stomach then it can cause queasiness... but that's a normal side effect.

    Thanks Peata! This has been so helpful. :)
  37. Just throwing in my two cents: A few years ago I had adult acne. Started supplmenting zinc (maybe 40mgs per day) and voila! Acne gone :) I still got one cyst a month at my period, but other than that, my adult acne was over.

    My little brother was the one who got me on to it: he had acne on his forehead, starting supping zinc, and it disappeared. He told a friend of his about it, the friend started supping, and his spots vanished too.

    Zinc is one of the building blocks required for progesterone production, so I assumed it had something to do with this.

    Gotta buy more oysters... :)
  38. Today I picked up a small vial of Trace Minerals Ionic Zinc to keep on hand for when I can't get shellfish. It is a liquid form that looks pretty safe and also contains copper gluconate.
  39. I'll try 10mgs of the zinc picolinate from Thorne daily for a week and see. That supp has silicon dioxide in it but it's all I have now and only a short term experiment.
  40. I've just read and been reminded of some rat studies involving Zinc that have forced me to be more diligent in taking Zinc.

    The first was a lecture I sat in on years ago. The researcher said that rats on a high fat diet experienced lower metabolisms and lower signs of health UNLESS they were given extra zinc in their diet.

    The next, which is one I just discovered recently online, said that rats who were given extra salicylates experienced worse hearing UNLESS they were also given extra zinc. This might be helpful to those taking aspirin.

    I'm gonna go ahead and treat myself as if I have a zinc deficiency and see what happens. I just found a good fresh cheap source of oysters so I am going to use that route.

    There is potentially 80mg of zinc per pack of oysters that I get, so I will try for one daily. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
  41. Although zinc is a very effective aromatase inhibitor I think it should rarely, if ever, be supplemented. It is known to displace copper and while preparations with 10-15% copper are common we don't know if copper imbalance is the only derangement it causes. A common side-effect of taking zinc for a few months is increased grey hair and low thyroid, both due to low copper. Also, most supplements come in dodgy forms such as -aspartate or -citrate.

    Just goes to show why Ray isn't known for supplementing zinc by itself, favoring instead oysters, meat.
  42. It's a bit surprising than a single mineral would do that.
  43. Zinc is really effective as an aromatase inhibitor, and it is a common mineral i avoid in my routine, so be careful.
  44. Isn't that a problem if one is relying on weekly oysters (or liver) for copper, as they are high in zinc - or is that just a consequence of synthetic supplementation only?

    All I know in terms of interaction is that calcium doesn't interfere with copper, but does with iron - so far so good for the idea of drinking milk and coffee in a meal containing meat.
  45. I read that alcohol can cause zinc deficiency. I had alcohol daily for a long time.

    I'm still using zinc, in fact, using more now that I'm in the 2nd half of my cycle because it's the only thing that is really keeping the acne down.

    In other words, why is zinc working better for me than anything else, Ray Peat diet or the other supps?
  46. Supplementing synthetic zinc is a problem and since it's very effective, it's difficult to not overdo it. Who knows what it displaces besides copper and iron. Sounds like that's why Ray isn't known for suggesting it as a supplement.

    Oysters are the best source of it by far although it's a pity that they cost the earth.
  47. At this point in cycle, I'm having to take 2 or 3 zinc tablets per day (50 mg. each) to stay on top of the acne. No big cysts, but I have inflamed pimples in all the places the cysts like to come up - under jawline, neck, lower half of face. So because I am where I am in my cycle, despite the zinc, I am getting acne, but it's still not as bad as cysts. I really think I could do 4 or more zinc per day at this point. My period should start any day now, and things should get better. Then I plan to back off the zinc again (if my acne will let me) until the 2nd half the cycle again.

    Again, I'm not sure WHY the zinc is what seems to be what's helping the most as far as acne. It may be the biggest helper in my other estrogen dominance symptoms too, I'm not sure. I'm doing great so far with everything else, but lately I've also increased my minerals, take a little more aspirin, so that could also be a help.

    Zinc is an aromatase inhibitor. Am I right in that it's keeping fat from producing estrogen? And keeping other hormones from turning into estrogen?

    I love taking this zinc and have no noticeable problems. I get my copper quota too. Plus I think despite the high amount, that not all the zinc gluconate in these tablets is available... But I know it's not seen as normal or healthy to take this much zinc. Yet I obviously have to take SOMETHING. I'll make another post if I don't get replies here, but I'm going to ask what are other aromatase inhibitors that are safer and as readily available as zinc?
  48. If zinc is so effective for you, it's likely you do have a deficiency. The problem comes by supplementing zinc only. Oysters would be the best alternative since they contain a wide distribution of minerals that prevent each other from causing toxicity.

    Among natural substances, grape seed extract, resveratrol (dodgy, according to Peat), naringin, calcium D-glucarate, Diindolylmethane (DIM) (also not favored by Peat) come to mind. Also you could try upping your insoluble fiber intake, much like Ray's recommendation of raw carrots. Of course there is progesterone which seems to be pretty effective at actually reducing estrogenic symptoms.

    For further reading consult: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074486/
  49. I eat oysters as much as I can stand, but by themselves it's still not enough zinc. Even if I eat a whole can. I still have to supplement over the day. I'm hoping when this cycle ends and progesterone is naturally more balanced, that I can cut back on the zinc supplement, at least for a couple weeks.

    Thanks for the other AI suggestions. I'll look into calcium d-glucarate and upping my insoluble fiber.

    For some reason, when I was mega-dosing on progest-E the last couple cycles, it didn't seem to help at all. I thought it was at first like many things, but then all the symptoms came on full force. I don't know why I was resistant to it. This cycle I've barely taken any, but I've been using it on my face 2x day, as a moisturizer.
  50. Oysters vary a lot in the amount of zinc they contain. Perhaps you could try other varieties of oyster.

    Same thing goes with Progest-E, how about trying another form of progesterone such as Prometrium @ 100-200 mg/day. Also, progesterone requires thyroid to work, and vice versa. So it takes some doing getting the balance right. Selenium and copper are common deficiencies that inhibit the action of thyroid.
  51. I'm not on any thyroid, not sure if I mentioned that before.

    Trying to stay off prescriptions if possible. The only one I take is Metformin. I'm looking into taking vitex as a means of increasing progesterone.

    Also, for minerals, I've been trying to make sure I get at least the RDA of them. Before I was mostly focused on calcium and sodium, but now I'm working more on potassium, magnesium. Also making sure to get copper, especially with the zinc I'm taking. And selenium. I sometimes take 1/4 of a multivitamin for people 50 and over (since it's iron-free) and it has minerals too.

    Thanks again for helping me with this, UW.
  52. Anyone know a good zinc/copper ratio? Would there be any issues with taking zinc and copper supplements long term at a good ratio?
  53. Alright, so for an update:

    I've been eating oysters daily since my last post, with 2 days of shrimp randomly in there. Today I finally reached the point where the smell of oysters disgust me, and I'm guessing it means I got whatever I needed from them.

    So as far as progress goes... After the first week of oysters I noticed scars on my body starting to fade much quicker than they normally do (I get cut working outside a lot), and I had more energy than normal, but it wasn't anything life changing.

    After week 2 I feel like a completely different person. I have energy and the digestive power of a kid again, but I made a few other changes that make me think it wasn't just the oysters. I upped my OJ intake to 2L per day, take 10k IU of vitamin D daily (and get lots of sunlight if I can), increased the salt to about 2-3 teaspoons, do red light therapy a lot, and eat something sour with each protein heavy meal (lemon/lime, vinegar, etc)

    As far as acne/pimples go I can say that my skin is much smoother and glows more, but I never got pimples on my face. On my body I do sometimes but those didn't go away or change much - I think dairy causes those. I am going to try cutting out milk and doing only parmigianno for my dairy.

    I'm really craving liver now since I haven't had any since I started this oyster thing.
  54. That's awesome, Ari, great to hear you are thriving on the oysters. I do maybe 6 oysters once a week, would like to do more but I can't afford the cost. I just picked up a bottle of liquid ionic zinc and plan to use it in addition to oysters for now. It has a bit of copper in there as well. Anybody see any evil bad stuff in the ingredient label of that product?

    Haven't heard about this trick in my Peatxploration yet, can you elaborate on the basis for doing that?
  55. The sour food with meat thing may only be peat friendly if you apply some sideways logic. I never read about it here, but my reasoning for doing it is that it greatly improves digestion via stimulation of stomach acid production (lemon, lime, vinegar, ginger, fermented foods all stimulate stomach acid, so does coffee too though). Some of those things listed are very peat unfriendly. But I think lemons and limes are fine?

    I first got the idea from Danny Roddys book 'Peat Whisperer' which showed meals containing OJ + Milk&Coffee + Meat/Cheese. Then I remembered how basically all meals in my mothers culture had limes or lemons with meat (less vitamin C than a glass of OJ).

    The first thing to think of is the fact that I am basically taking in high amounts of vitamin C with my meats which is a bad thing as far as iron absorption. But the improvement in digestion is so much that I can't go back to eating my meats with something sugary like I used to. Instead I now eat my carbs only after the meat has cleared my stomach (more or less).

    Basically, i've been running some 'tests' and if I eat a meat heavy meal with no carbs (!) I can feel warm for about an hour or so as long as there is something sour with the meal.

    I think you can get the same effect by drinking OJ with meats but I haven't tried it; based on the book I referenced Peat does that very thing? Who knows.. still experimenting on a daily basis here.

    One addition is that if you enjoy starchy foods (a peat grey area?) I wouldn't try and pair them with something sour.. it has always led to bad results for me.
  56. Since vitamin C is a concern, and there is a lot in lemon, why not use vinegar or coffee?

    Also, I don't see why starch with sour would be bad...to the contrary, I think vinegar with potato minimizes the insulin response.
  57. I used vinegar just now with eggs. It works well but I don't think it could pair with every food I eat. Instead I will probably try and focus on eating low amounts of meat overall so that iron isn't a big concern in the first place.

    Also I hate to say it but i'm not a huge fan of coffee. I tend to drink it medicinally instead of as a beverage.

    As for the starch with sour thing, I have no idea why it doesn't work for me, but every time i've tried it I have felt bad. But that's not a huge area for me to explore either since I don't each much starch. Last time I had starch of any kind was 4 days ago. I tried potatoes for a while to see how they were and Orange Juice works better for me.

    If I were ever completely broke though I could see myself surviving on potatoes and butter without too many problems.
  58. I don't know, but with the amount of zinc I'm taking, I doubt it would be safe to supplement the proper ratio of copper too.

    Most days lately, I'm getting 1 mg copper to 100-175 mg. zinc.

    On Mondays I eat oysters, so my copper goes up to 7-8 mg.
  59. I have calcium d-glucarate on the way. I plan to take 500 mg. daily. I'm going to ease back on the zinc when I start the CDG. Hopefully the CDG helps enough that I can just get my zinc through food, or supplement at a much lower dose than I am now.

    I was looking into vitex briefly, but think I'll just use CDG and see how that goes for a while.
  60. I don't do coffee either. I never got into drinking it and admittedly got sort of put off at a young age by some people in my life who were excessively elitist about the whole coffee culture. Silly I know, I'll probably give coffee a shot again at some point especially now that I understand the biomechanics of it. I do love coffee ice cream though!

    I like drinking chaga mushroom tea when I eat liver or meat. Chaga is rich in polyphenols just like coffee, and if I'm not mistaken the polyphenols are the mechanisms in coffee that blocks iron absorption.
  61. Change of plan - I actually started Vitex yesterday. It's said to raise progesterone and reduce prolactin.

    Supplementing 100 mg. zinc daily now that I seem to be through the worst of the pre-menstrual acne. Will reduce at some point.
  62. I find that eating a small number of oysters over a few days is better than a lot in a single meal. Since opening oysters can be tedious, it'd be easier to spend 30mins and take them out, place in salted water (so that it keeps longer) and store in fridge. I assume it'd keep for a few days safely, what do you think?
  63. JYB, I have no idea. I've only fixed oysters like that once and cooked them all right away. I just used canned otherwise. Hopefully someone will answer for you.

    I've cut way back on my zinc lately. I lost my craving for oysters about a week ago, and took that as a sign I'm topped up on the zinc finally. I am still taking 25 mg. daily, where at times I was taking almost 200 mg.

    I decided not to take Vitex right now, but am taking Calcium d-glucarate to get rid of excess estrogen and toxins.
  64. Will you let us know how it goes with the Calcium d-glucarate?
  65. This is a good site on keeping oysters.

    How long can I keep shucked (shells removed) shellfish?
    Temperatures below 35°F will minimize bacterial growth and help shucked shellfish stay fresh longer, usually 4 to 7 days or by the "use by" date printed on containers. Refrigerator temperatures greater than 40°F will decrease shelf life.

  66. Yes. My zinc experiment is basically over, I think, so not sure if I'll have a lot more to say in this thread. I will likely keep taking it in low doses but want to work on my hormones in a different way now. I do most of my updating here: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1826
  67. Didn't take zinc, or eat oysters for a couple days and here come the big zits. Ugggggh. Do I literally have to eat oysters everyday???? :?
  68. That's why I had to supplement, there was just no way I could eat that many oysters everyday to get what I needed.
  69. Since I lost my craving for oysters, I cut back on the zinc supplementing - took it as a sign I didn't need as much anymore.

    I've been looking into other mineral deficiencies that go along with PCOS, and saw that magnesium is recommended. I have mostly been focusing on calcium. So I decided not to worry so much about that (other than try to keep a good balance with phosphorus) and focus on supplementing magnesium. Also saw recommendations about the B vitamins, Vitamin E, others.

    I thought it being just a nutritional issue seemed too simple, but now that I have been Peat'g, I see how much really is nutrition - it's astounding. Plus seeing how the zinc was able to help, but it was not enough during some of my worst pre-menstrual times.

    So, I stopped the mega doses of zinc except for 25 mg. now and then. I take magnesium daily, also B1, B3, B6, bits of Benadryl throughout day, aspirin only when I feel like I need it for my back or neck, 1 or 2 capsules of Unique E, Magnesium, and have been using Progest-E since about halfway through cycle. I've been taking 500 mg. calcium d-glucarate 3 - 5x day, but I'll be running out of that soon and don't think I need to re-order. I believe the other supplements are helping keep the estrogen down too.

    Anyway, I have three places just under my jaw (pretty much hidden) but other than that, things are looking good. Normally at this time I would have hormonal breakouts in many places. Even my chest is virtually clear. Will see how it goes in the next week and a half.
  70. And I don't know whether I mentioned it, but after one pill I decided not to take Vitex after all. I wanted to try to treat this nutritionally with vitamins and minerals if possible before I went to Vitex.
  71. Are you successful now with keeping the acne away?
  72. I currently have a few large pimples in a cluster under my right jaw, but other than that, looking pretty clear. I'm in second half of cycle though when things tend to explode, so the next week and a half will be the true test.
  73. Still doing the 25mg zinc a day?
  74. Maybe every other day now. I think I got my levels up enough with the high doses I was on for so many weeks.

    But now I see there were other nutrients at play too, not just zinc alone. I think getting the level up helped, but wasn't the whole piece of the puzzle.
  75. This stuff can get so tricky. I've read of other people being completely clear all the time with zinc alone. I think I just had too many deficiencies I didn't even realize. I read something today from RP and now I can't remember where I saw it, and I'm phrasing it very loosely, but it was about how malfunction, especially longterm (from whatever) can cause an organ or system to change and then require more of a substance (say, a vitamin or mineral) than it normally would to function properly again.
  76. I read something like that about a week ago that Peat basically said that some of us are so messed up, that it would take unphysiological doses of certain nutrients/vitamins to get the job done. Meaning some us us might need much bigger doses then others. I feel like I could eat liver and oysters every single day and still not get enough. :lol:
  77. That's how I felt too. I would eat a can of oysters and still feel I needed tons of zinc supplement.

    I'm pretty hopeful with my current regimen, as not only am I feeling good and looking better, but have lost a big of weight I haven't been able to lose for about a year. Sleep is great, motivation/energy is up. After going through a bad patch of anxiety last week due to a life circumstance, I am now able to feel more relaxed and overall calmer. I think the only thing that saved me through that was keeping the nutrition up to the best of my ability - even when I didn't feel like eating I would get some OJ if nothing else.
  78. Something to keep in mind as well, if you are overdosing on thyroid medication (like I have and likely many on this forum!), this will cause more zinc to be excreted. There are studies you can look at if you search google.

    I take NOW foods zinc picolinate (with copper along with it) and it is right up there with Vitamin A as the most effective supplements. I can eat almost anything with no digestive problems with the combination of these two.
  79. I read this whole thread briefly and this is just my two cents, but do you realize that your acne maybe related more towards high estrogen then low zinc? I mean possibly taking that much zinc probably boosts your metabolism even more thus, requiring the need for B's and A even higher. perhaps something like 4oz liver and 2-3 cans of oysters per week would work better. sometimes less is more.. What about thyroid, have you tried small amounts of that? what about increasing protein and B vitamins (potatoes/meat are both high in B's)? both are necessary to detox estrogen. Maybe you need higher amounts of both. carrot salads for endotoxin, gut inflammation.... Idk this is coming from a guy who hasnt figure out his own problems, but those are just my thoughts after reading this thread....
  80. Guys, you should stop Peating. It is really bad for you . His diet is the most unbalanced and not pro thyroid diet ever unless you take progesterone vitamin E and stuff that speeds you up. And how is taking supplements good for you. FOOD needs to be balanced and not supplements.
    In 2 Quarts of milk there are 266% of daily RDA for calcium---266%. Calcium lowers zinc , sodium , iron. So iron is good I guess, but zinc is really bad. Also he says that you have to drink orange juice for magnesium , LMAO orange juice has 7% of RDA of magnesium per quart. People should be taking 2 to 1 calcium to magnesium or may be even 1 to 1. HOw is taking 266% or RDA of calcium to 7% RDA magnesium 2 to 1.

    Now all that calcium causes zinc to go down huge, and weekly oysters dont do anything in that department since you bombard yourself with calcium daily in hundreds of % of RDA and then you eat a little oysters which you get one 1 day RDA of \zinc. LMAO This is just insane and crazy.

    Now go further, you take all this sugar. You insulin goes up on that, and insulin needs zinc and manganese to be produced. SO you lower your zinc with calcium from milk and the you just kill it with all that sugar. Is that the reason why Peat wears the thickest glasses ? Vision problems is zinc deficiency. Someone says that PEat has oysters daily. No ***t , otherwise he would lose his vison totally. All these gurus are nothing but sharlatans.

    So he totally lowers his metabolism with calcium and at the same time he increases it with progesterone and vitamin E, not because he needs vitamin E or progesterone, but because he has to take those, vitamin E increase sodium in the cell, and progesterone increases potassium . That is why he is taking those. But he does not need to take them if he does not screw himself with unbalanced dairy comsumption and if someone does not take progesterone or vitamin E with this regimen you will get screwed. ANd most people dont take them and they can get cancer from this or go bald
  81. "There is no perfect food; each comes with give and take. When eating for health, savvy eaters choose foods that give the most and take away the least." - Rob Turner
  82. @gbolduev
    I don't know of any eating protocol that does not use nutrients in specific foods to balance out the diet. heck even Matt Stone's eat whatever you want protocol includes specific nutrient dense foods to correct things. I constantly hear eat 'this' b/c it's high in "fill in the blank". So it seems that Dr.Peat knows what nutrients are lacking in the food he eats most, and makes sure to get those nutrients via a nutrient dense food or supplementation. I've seen people correct vision issues with specific exercises, so there's more to it than zinc issues. I don't get mad at the sun b/c it requires me to eat more vit A rich foods, I love it b/c it feels great. It's better sometimes to weigh the positives with the negatives without judgement of the whole.

    2 years ago I was absorbing virtually zero vit D from the sun while constantly bathing in it. Since increasing my calcium levels (with other changes of course), I don't have this issue anymore. So it seems that some people may require more calcium than others.
  83. Peata have you ever considered the possibility of too-high copper causing the acne*? Could explain why you need a zinc supplement even on oysters (as oysters can be high copper too). Various things can cause copper overload, including a history of the contraceptive pill or vegetarian diet. Just a thought! :)

    * because zinc brings down excess copper, and they exist in balance with each other
  84. Thanks, BB, I stopped supplementing zinc some time ago. I was afraid I was giving myself more grey hair.
  85. @gbolduev: It's good to make sure one doesn't have deficiencies, but your comment is particularly unscientific, it makes so many assumptions. Did the Masai dairy tribes have vision problems? I don't think so.
  86. There is a subforum for this argument here:
    Ray Peat Debate Forum viewforum.php?f=13
    'Do not agree with Ray Peats ideas and philosophies? Think you know better? Then let's have a civilized debate about it.'
  87. 7% per cup, 28% per quart according to nutritiondata.self.com

    3oz eastern oysters farmed provides 215% RDA. That's just a few oysters. A lot of us also have beef, lamb, and bone broth a couple times a week as well.

    I myself also know not to consume dairy when consuming oysters or beef, so there's little to no calcium blocking the zinc I get when I eat the foods to... guess what... get the nutrition I need through the foods I eat.

    What would you have us eating, @gbolduev ?
  88. Peata, do you still have problems with acne? Do you think your period of zinc supplementation helped with that long-term?
  89. Yes.

    Progesterone helped my acne more than anything. It came back when I stopped using Progesterone regularly, so I'm back to using it again. It's still not reduced as much as when I was using Progesterone the first time, but it's a lot better.
  90. Have you tried any antibiotics for acne?
  91. Yes, off and on, teens years up through mid 20's. Did not seem to help much. My problem is estrogen dominance. Going on the Pill helped me the most out of anything back when I didn't know any better. I tried to go off the Pill and use diet and supplements, but nothing helped, it was the worst acne of my life and left scars. For a while everything cleared up great in early to mid 30s when I was on Metformin and Spironolactone. I still had obvious hormonal issues by other symptoms though. By age 36 the estrogen dominance really came on and with it terrible acne, particularly on lower half of face/jaw/neck.
  92. Interesting. Thanks for posting. Here's the abstract for anybody who wants to take a quick look:

    The aim of this study was to investigate the beneficial effect of vitamin E supplementation on zinc deficiency in experimental diabetes. Male alloxan-diabetic Wistar, albino rats of 10 weeks of age were divided into three groups. The first group received a diet containing 54 mg zinc/kg (adequate zinc group, AZ), the second group received a diet containing 1mg zinc/kg (zinc deficient group, ZD), and the third group received a diet containing 1mg zinc/kg supplemented with vitamin E (500mg/kg diet) (ZD+VE). Body weight gain and food intake of all rats were recorded regularly over a period of four weeks. On day 28, after overnight fasting, animals were killed and blood glucose, serum cholesterol, serum triglycerides, serum protein, serum urea, serum zinc, femur zinc, pancreatic zinc, testis zinc, liver glutathione concentrations and serum glutamic oxalic transaminase (GOT), serum glutamic pyruvic transaminase (GPT) and serum alkaline phosphatase activities were determined on blood and tissue samples. Body weight gain of zinc deficient diabetic animals at the end of four weeks of dietary manipulation was significantly lower than that of zinc adequate diabetic animals. Dietary zinc intake significantly increased blood glucose, serum cholesterol, serum triglycerides, and serum urea of zinc deficient diabetic rats. In contrast, serum zinc, femur zinc, pancreatic zinc, serum protein and liver glutathione levels were lower. The consumption of zinc deficient diet led also to an increase in serum GOT, GPT coupled with a decrease in serum alkaline phosphatase. Vitamin E ameliorated all the previous parameters. In conclusion, the present study demonstrates that vitamin E supplementation significantly reduced the severity of zinc deficiency in diabetes mellitus. (Int J Diabetes Metab 15: 46-50, 2007)
  93. That’s wonderful Peata! I can just imagine how elated you must feel. I’m still trying to figure my skin out. Zinc has never really done much for me personally. I wish I knew what my missing nutrient was.