Zinc-Induced Copper Deficiency

[PaRa]

Milk and Cocoa powder if You tolerate (calcium and copper)

 

[InChristAlone]

Cocoa is probably the greatest source. Beef liver is chock full of bioavailable iron and probably not a good idea to load up on that.

 

[PaRa]

Cocoa is probably the greatest source. Beef liver is chock full of bioavailable iron and probably not a good idea to load up on that.

iron is vital

beef liver‘s Iron content is near impossible to absorb with the huge copper content and its not high Iron at all

beef liver is full of retinol


but yes i agree that cocoa is one of the best copper source IMO (partly because of the low A and because it tastes good, whereas liver is horrendous)

 

[InChristAlone]

iron is vital

beef liver‘s Iron content is near impossible to absorb with the huge copper content and its not high Iron at all

beef liver is full of retinol


but yes i agree that cocoa is one of the best copper source IMO (partly because of the low A and because it tastes good, whereas liver is horrendous)

I thought iron is a copper synergist?

 

[Milan555]

How much cacao powder to raise copper levels? I'm talking about raw cacao powder, not cocoa powder. I have the Navita's brand.

 

[PaRa]

I thought iron is a copper synergist?

copper helps the body to use iron yes

but their absorption in the digestive tract is antagonistic
thats why a peaty diet can crash body iron level for some people (coffee, copper, high calcium and low Iron diet, Good if you have hereditary hemochromatosis or real iron overload tho)

this type of diet made me anemic in just 2 monthes, YMMV

 

[deliciousfruit]

You may have digestive issues but that does not mean you cannot digest meat. You just need to make the beef liver and eat small amounts say 2 oz at a time with some rice. The other issue is lowering of copper status causes considerable calcium losses and will also cause calcium deficiency.

So when copper is being repleted, bioavailable calcium from dairy also has to be consumed as copper is needed to fix calcium into bones. This is why you feel even worse because likely you made yourself calcium deficient as well. As long as your body has salt and water it should be able to digest simple things like liver and rice. But if you are not getting much sodium in your diet (I mean you arent eating much it seems) you can make any stomach acid so you need to get some salt in your body. Yogurts and other forms of dairy should be included soon after getting more liver, but the first step is liver.

I'm not exaggerating when I say I can't digest meat. I literally look like like a skeleton because I have lost so much weight from malnutrition. I've even tried buying expensive pharmaceutical-grade amino acid powders, but my body just rejects those too. I eat about 75g of salt daily (not a typo), so I'm getting enough sodium

 

[deliciousfruit]

Wishing you well.

I‘d consider copper bisglycinate for a while until you can eat normal food sources again.

Thanks. I'm considering a copper supplement at this point, I hope it doesn't **** me up further

 

[redsun]

I'm not exaggerating when I say I can't digest meat. I literally look like like a skeleton because I have lost so much weight from malnutrition. I've even tried buying expensive pharmaceutical-grade amino acid powders, but my body just rejects those too. I eat about 75g of salt daily (not a typo), so I'm getting enough sodium

75g of salt is 29g of sodium and similar amounts of chloride. Do you not see the issue? If you actually consume this much, your electrolyte balance is screwed. Its not surprising why you feel like you are on the verge of death taking this much in. Yes NaCl is the main component that people tend to miss when it comes to stomach acid... But you dont need this much and it is actually harmful.

 

[Overton]

The other piece with liver is retinol helps make copper available. If not using liver, finding ways to get retinol in with the copper should help (eggs, dairy).

 

[deliciousfruit]

75g of salt is 29g of sodium and similar amounts of chloride. Do you not see the issue? If you actually consume this much, your electrolyte balance is screwed. Its not surprising why you feel like you are on the verge of death taking this much in. Yes NaCl is the main component that people tend to miss when it comes to stomach acid... But you dont need this much and it is actually harmful.

I'm not doing it because I think it's "healthy", I do it because I feel a lot worse if I don't, I have extreme cravings for it, I am just listening to my body.

 

[redsun]

I'm not doing it because I think it's "healthy", I do it because I feel a lot worse if I don't, I have extreme cravings for it, I am just listening to my body.

You could have less salt retention because of less catecholamines since copper is necessary to make them. But keep in mind the body adjusts to your sodium intake. You will feel worse but you do need to work on slowly dropping salt intake to something more sustainable.

Anyways, you should immediately purchase a copper supplement (gluconate or glycinate is fine) and take it and see how you feel. This is best way to get isolated copper without other minerals that can inhibit absorption. The thing is likely you have B vitamin and possibly thiamine deficiency which can lead to low or nonexistent stomach acid. Copper deficiency itself would not cause this but B vitamin deficiency would. So this is something you need to also try if you haven't already.

 

[deliciousfruit]

You could have less salt retention because of less catecholamines since copper is necessary to make them. But keep in mind the body adjusts to your sodium intake. You will feel worse but you do need to work on slowly dropping salt intake to something more sustainable.

Anyways, you should immediately purchase a copper supplement (gluconate or glycinate is fine) and take it and see how you feel. This is best way to get isolated copper without other minerals that can inhibit absorption. The thing is likely you have B vitamin and possibly thiamine deficiency which can lead to low or nonexistent stomach acid. Copper deficiency itself would not cause this but B vitamin deficiency would. So this is something you need to also try if you haven't already.

Thanks for replying. Hopefully I will remember to report back in a few weeks when the copper supplement has arrived and I've had a chance to try it

 

[Milan555]

@redsun what's better? a copper supplement or just taking cacao powder?

If taking a copper supplement, I'm thinking of starting with 1mg copper/day. What effects should be noticed?

 

[redsun]

@redsun what's better? a copper supplement or just taking cacao powder?

If taking a copper supplement, I'm thinking of starting with 1mg copper/day. What effects should be noticed?

For the record, I took a whole bottle of 2mg copper gluconate supplement which had about 100 pills before I finally decided to do liver. The copper supplements only seemed to increase energy but have no apparent effects on mood, cognition, focus, etc. In my subjective experience it seems like the copper supplement mostly had peripheral effects but for whatever reason it did not have any cognitive enhancements. On the downside the copper supplement gave me bad GI symptoms. Mostly bad stomach pain.

Maybe its just so poorly absorbed compared to copper from animal sources or for some other reason. Once I was sick of very little results I finally ate liver regularly and the difference in my experience was astronomical. This is when I experienced the effects that I already described earlier in this thread.

 

[youngsinatra]

For the record, I took a whole bottle of 2mg copper gluconate supplement which had about 100 pills before I finally decided to do liver. The copper supplements only seemed to increase energy but have no apparent effects on mood, cognition, focus, etc. In my subjective experience it seems like the copper supplement mostly had peripheral effects but for whatever reason it did not have any cognitive enhancements. On the downside the copper supplement gave me bad GI symptoms. Mostly bad stomach pain.

Maybe its just so poorly absorbed compared to copper from animal sources or for some other reason. Once I was sick of very little results I finally ate liver regularly and the difference in my experience was astronomical. This is when I experienced the effects that I already described earlier in this thread.

Lack of effects of copper gluconate supplementation - PubMed

A double-blind study was done giving 10 mg of copper/day as copper gluconate or placebo capsules for 12 wk. The seven subjects receiving copper gluconate had no change in the level of copper in the serum, urine, or hair. There was also no change in the levels of zinc or magnesium. There was also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Copperbisglycinate seems to be more bioavailable.

 

[ecstatichamster]

high iron is a symptom too.

I think that Dr. Peat has recommended copper-based seafood such as oysters. They are high in iron too but high in copper. I think crab and lobster are good too.

 

[redsun]

Lack of effects of copper gluconate supplementation - PubMed

A double-blind study was done giving 10 mg of copper/day as copper gluconate or placebo capsules for 12 wk. The seven subjects receiving copper gluconate had no change in the level of copper in the serum, urine, or hair. There was also no change in the levels of zinc or magnesium. There was also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Copperbisglycinate seems to be more bioavailable.

So I guess all those companies selling gluconate form are selling a worthless supplement. I wonder why that is though. Do you know of a study showing the glycinate form being effective to improve parameters related to copper status?

 

[youngsinatra]

So I guess all those companies selling gluconate form are selling a worthless supplement. I wonder why that is though. Do you know of a study showing the glycinate form being effective to improve parameters related to copper status?

A randomized trial of copper supplementation effects on blood copper enzyme activities and parameters related to cardiovascular health - PubMed

Marginal copper deficiency, which may affect cardiovascular disease risk, is proposed to occur in many adults in Western industrialized countries. The present study tested the hypothesis that in a group of USA adults, increased copper intake would alter readings for blood copper enzymes and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[youngsinatra]

Any improvements @deliciousfruit ?