Zinc-Induced Copper Deficiency

[Milan555]

What are the symptoms of copper deficiency from zinc supplements? Has anyone experienced this and resolved it? What does it feel like?

 

[redsun]

What are the symptoms of copper deficiency from zinc supplements? Has anyone experienced this and resolved it? What does it feel like?

If you had true copper deficiency it would cause problems with walking and coordination, concentration, would cause pretty bad fatigue and muscle weakness, and every bodily function may suffer. It takes an intake of 40mg+ of zinc from food and supplements for weeks/months to induce copper deficiency. If you don't have true deficiency you can still have poor copper status.

Easiest way to see if you don't have enough copper is to eat some beef liver which is extremely rich in copper. Its important that you already stopped high zinc intake for at least a few days before you try liver however as it can take some time to for copper absorption to stop being blocked.

In regards to how it feels, years ago when I used to take large amounts of zinc (50mg at a time very frequently), I was constantly fatigued, had hypersomnia, poor concentration, muscle weakness in the gym, lethargic and extremely irritable.

 

[youngsinatra]

Cold hands and feet, difficulty walking, dizziness, low body temperature, low pulse, fatigue, depressive mood, low libido.

 

[Milan555]

@youngsinatra @redsun I have a lot of the symptoms you listed there. I was taking 57mg of zinc daily consistently for about 3 months. My symptoms were worsening lethargy, sleepiness, gray hairs, hair loss. I still have low temp in the morning with low HR (often in 50's but not in great shape).

The worst for me is the mental fatigue and fog. I feel I'm a motivated person to accomplish things, but my brain doesn't wake up enough to actually get things done.

Is this at all how you feel mentally?

 

[redsun]

@youngsinatra @redsun I have a lot of the symptoms you listed there. I was taking 57mg of zinc daily consistently for about 3 months. My symptoms were worsening lethargy, sleepiness, gray hairs, hair loss. I still have low temp in the morning with low HR (often in 50's but not in great shape).

The worst for me is the mental fatigue and fog. I feel I'm a motivated person to accomplish things, but my brain doesn't wake up enough to actually get things done.

Is this at all how you feel mentally?

Yes basically this is how it feels mentally when you are copper deficient. You will have low catecholamines and will deal with low activation of your brain (especially dopaminergic regions) because of low norepinephrine (NE). This will also lead to a narcoleptic like state since NE is vital for promoting wakefulness.

 

[Milan555]

@redsun This describes it completely for me. What is the best way to get copper levels up without eating beef liver? Can it be resolved quickly?

 

[redsun]

@redsun This describes it completely for me. What is the best way to get copper levels up without eating beef liver? Can it be resolved quickly?

I highly suggest you eat beef liver. It has tons of it. It can be resolved quickly that way. Otherwise, you need to consume plant foods high in copper which may work but the copper in plants are not as absorbable as liver.

Beef liver if fried in olive oil is very doable. You just need to cook it very slowly. Most of the bad taste of liver is from oxidizing chemicals and compounds in the liver. If the liver is browning thats how you know its cooking too fast. If it is cooked thoroughly but very slowly the taste is very tolerable. This was my initial problem with liver. Once I learned how to cook it properly I was all set.

 

[Milan555]

@redsun Great, ill look into this. When did symptoms resolve? What are the first things you noticed when copper got better? Any major changes mentally?

 

[baccheion]

How much zinc can be consumed without causing issues if 3-4 mg copper is coming in (from potatoes and chicken thigh)?

 

[redsun]

@redsun Great, ill look into this. When did symptoms resolve? What are the first things you noticed when copper got better? Any major changes mentally?

Mostly euphoric and yet sirenic. Hypomanic for a little while. It takes time for the brain to readjust to more neurotransmitters so keep that in mind.

 

[redsun]

How much zinc can be consumed without causing issues if 3-4 mg copper is coming in (from potatoes and chicken thigh)?

Cut off point should be 30mg zinc total daily and most people dont even get close to this anyways unless they supplement.

 

[artist]

Another common external sign is varicose and spider veins

 

[deliciousfruit]

Yes basically this is how it feels mentally when you are copper deficient. You will have low catecholamines and will deal with low activation of your brain (especially dopaminergic regions) because of low norepinephrine (NE). This will also lead to a narcoleptic like state since NE is vital for promoting wakefulness.

This is what's happened to me. I thought I had "copper toxicity", so I treated myself with zinc, molybdenum, manganese, vitamin c, and niacin. Now I am so sick that I am essentially on the verge of death. I can't eat anything except for rice because my digestive system doesn't work. I can't even begin to describe what my brain feels like, it doesn't even feel like I'm alive. I can't move for a good half of the day because I'm so sleepy. I've developed a severe candida infection in my gut, and some sort of chronic sinus infection. Severe multiple chemical sensitivity. I would eat beef liver except I literally cannot digest anything.

 

[youngsinatra]

This is what's happened to me. I thought I had "copper toxicity", so I treated myself with zinc, molybdenum, manganese, vitamin c, and niacin. Now I am so sick that I am essentially on the verge of death. I can't eat anything except for rice because my digestive system doesn't work. I can't even begin to describe what my brain feels like, it doesn't even feel like I'm alive. I can't move for a good half of the day because I'm so sleepy. I've developed a severe candida infection in my gut, and some sort of chronic sinus infection. Severe multiple chemical sensitivity. I would eat beef liver except I literally cannot digest anything.

What protocol did you follow? And what dosages for the different supplements?

Have you done blood test for copper status lately?

 

[deliciousfruit]

What protocol did you follow? And what dosages for the different supplements?

Have you done blood test for copper status lately?

Andy Cutler, 50mg zinc, 500mcg molybdenum, 2g ascorbic acid per meal (2 meals daily) and 4mg manganese away from food. I'm a ******* idiot. Yes my latest blood test showed copper below the range and zinc above the range

 

[golder]

Andy Cutler, 50mg zinc, 500mcg molybdenum, 2g ascorbic acid per meal (2 meals daily) and 4mg manganese away from food. I'm a ******* idiot. Yes my latest blood test showed copper below the range and zinc above the range

Danny Roddy mentioned Andy Cutlers protocol was one of the most health demoting things he ever embarked on.

 

[youngsinatra]

Wishing you well.

I‘d consider copper bisglycinate for a while until you can eat normal food sources again.

 

[Overton]

Andy Cutler, 50mg zinc, 500mcg molybdenum, 2g ascorbic acid per meal (2 meals daily) and 4mg manganese away from food. I'm a ******* idiot. Yes my latest blood test showed copper below the range and zinc above the range

Ive seen it mentioned by Morley Robbins that ascorbic acid can greatly crash copper status. Whole food vitamin c does not. Something else to consider.

Shrimp and oysters may be easier to digest for copper purposes as well, though not quite as high as liver and include zinc too, but still a good dose.

 

[redsun]

This is what's happened to me. I thought I had "copper toxicity", so I treated myself with zinc, molybdenum, manganese, vitamin c, and niacin. Now I am so sick that I am essentially on the verge of death. I can't eat anything except for rice because my digestive system doesn't work. I can't even begin to describe what my brain feels like, it doesn't even feel like I'm alive. I can't move for a good half of the day because I'm so sleepy. I've developed a severe candida infection in my gut, and some sort of chronic sinus infection. Severe multiple chemical sensitivity. I would eat beef liver except I literally cannot digest anything.

You may have digestive issues but that does not mean you cannot digest meat. You just need to make the beef liver and eat small amounts say 2 oz at a time with some rice. The other issue is lowering of copper status causes considerable calcium losses and will also cause calcium deficiency.

So when copper is being repleted, bioavailable calcium from dairy also has to be consumed as copper is needed to fix calcium into bones. This is why you feel even worse because likely you made yourself calcium deficient as well. As long as your body has salt and water it should be able to digest simple things like liver and rice. But if you are not getting much sodium in your diet (I mean you arent eating much it seems) you can make any stomach acid so you need to get some salt in your body. Yogurts and other forms of dairy should be included soon after getting more liver, but the first step is liver.

 

[redsun]

Ive seen it mentioned by Morley Robbins that ascorbic acid can greatly crash copper status. Whole food vitamin c does not. Something else to consider.

Shrimp and oysters may be easier to digest for copper purposes as well, though not quite as high as liver and include zinc too, but still a good dose.

Oyster is packed with zinc it will just make it worse by blocking copper absorption even though there is a decent amount of copper in there.