Zinc in serum bad , but good in „blood“?

[redsun]

@redsun

My doctor said I should continue with the high copper and zinc doses. Should I take all the copper at once in the morning away from food, or half an hour before eating and the rest some hours later?

Same for zinc. In the evening two times or all 40 mg at once before sleep hours after the last meal?
What would be best ?


I also take b vitamins now. Does it matter when ?

High dose zinc blocks copper absorption. So if you need zinc and copper, copper wont be absorbed with the dose that you are taking. Once total intake of zinc from supplements and food is >40mg, copper absorption is inhibited greatly.

 

[Motif]

High dose zinc blocks copper absorption. So if you need zinc and copper, copper wont be absorbed with the dose that you are taking. Once total intake of zinc from supplements and food is >40mg, copper absorption is inhibited greatly.

Thanks. Even when I take copper many hours later? Like let’s say zinc in the evening at 8 and copper in the mornin at 10?

And when I keep zinc supplements at 40 mg?



@redsun and am I still zinc deficient according to these blood tests?

 

[redsun]

Thanks. Even when I take copper many hours later? Like let’s say zinc in the evening at 8 and copper in the mornin at 10?

And when I keep zinc supplements at 40 mg?



@redsun and am I still zinc deficient according to these blood tests?

The increased metallothionein expression in the gut due to high dose zinc lasts days maybe even weeks depending on how much you take. It doesnt matter if they are taken at seperate times, copper absorption will be super low. Well I cant see your blood test but "blood" means plasma, so plasma zinc is good.

 

[Motif]

The increased metallothionein expression in the gut due to high dose zinc lasts days maybe even weeks depending on how much you take. It doesnt matter if they are taken at seperate times, copper absorption will be super low. Well I cant see your blood test but "blood" means plasma, so plasma zinc is good.

Thanks! So serum zinc levels are not important?

Then i will take less zinc and more copper, but I really think still taking zinc improves my skin itching a lot ??‍
Confusing.

Might I have high prolactin issues and the high dose zinc is lowering it ?
@redsun

 

[Gustav3Y]

Might I have high prolactin issues and the high dose zinc is lowering it ?

Why don't you test it a couple of times?

 

[redsun]

Thanks! So serum zinc levels are not important?

Then i will take less zinc and more copper, but I really think still taking zinc improves my skin itching a lot ??‍
Confusing.

Might I have high prolactin issues and the high dose zinc is lowering it ?
@redsun

Yeh but that is likely not related to you actually needing zinc but because zinc is doing something else at high doses counteracting the itching. Imo I have only seen benefit from copper in foods. Liver copper content helps a lot but supplemental inorganic forms do not absorb anywhere near as well and do not seem to act the same in my experience.

 

[Motif]

Why don't you test it a couple of times.

I did many times! Serum zinc was always low. Tested blood zinc two times and it was good

 

[Motif]

Yeh but that is likely not related to you actually needing zinc but because zinc is doing something else at high doses counteracting the itching. Imo I have only seen benefit from copper in foods. Liver copper content helps a lot but supplemental inorganic forms do not absorb anywhere near as well and do not seem to act the same in my experience.

So you think I should try to lower prolactin? Any ideas how?
And keep zinc supplements at maybe 20 mg?

@redsun

 

[redsun]

So you think I should try to lower prolactin? Any ideas how?
And keep zinc supplements at maybe 20 mg?

@redsun

I dont think its prolactin directly. If you have low copper/ceruloplasmin this leads to high inflammation and weak immune function.

Itching is mainly due to excess histamine and serotonin which is broken down by DAO and MAO-A (both need riboflavin and copper). You can see how if copper is low why itching can become a chronic problem. Also this is likely why you have a chronic runny nose. Zinc is an anti-histamine through several mechanisms but it doesnt solve the problem just masks it because as soon as you stop taking it it comes back.

You cannot take any zinc supplements if you want to absorb copper. You would need to stop zinc and wait a week for the MT in your gut to go back to normal so you can actually absorb copper. Then after a week of no zinc supplementation you should consume a lot of copper rich foods such as liver, potatoes, mushrooms, etc so you can increase copper levels in the body.

This will with time increase DAO in the blood and deal with the root cause of your itching. If you want to actually raise copper in the body you have to avoid zinc supplements and super high zinc foods like oysters for at least a week and then start consuming copper foods. Copper supplements are not as well as absorbed, copper from food especially liver is very easily absorbed and contains a large amount.

But you cannot start consuming zinc supplements after a week either. You need to stop for awhile as soon as you start dosing zinc again copper absorption will reduce again and you are back to square one, unable to raise copper levels in the body.

 

[Gustav3Y]

I did many times! Serum zinc was always low. Tested blood zinc two times and it was good

I meant Prolactin when I said that, not Zinc.

 

[Motif]

I meant Prolactin when I said that, not Zinc.

I did not! That was just an assumption

 

[Motif]

I dont think its prolactin directly. If you have low copper/ceruloplasmin this leads to high inflammation and weak immune function.

Itching is mainly due to excess histamine and serotonin which is broken down by DAO and MAO-A (both need riboflavin and copper). You can see how if copper is low why itching can become a chronic problem. Also this is likely why you have a chronic runny nose. Zinc is an anti-histamine through several mechanisms but it doesnt solve the problem just masks it because as soon as you stop taking it it comes back.

You cannot take any zinc supplements if you want to absorb copper. You would need to stop zinc and wait a week for the MT in your gut to go back to normal so you can actually absorb copper. Then after a week of no zinc supplementation you should consume a lot of copper rich foods such as liver, potatoes, mushrooms, etc so you can increase copper levels in the body.

This will with time increase DAO in the blood and deal with the root cause of your itching. If you want to actually raise copper in the body you have to avoid zinc supplements and super high zinc foods like oysters for at least a week and then start consuming copper foods. Copper supplements are not as well as absorbed, copper from food especially liver is very easily absorbed and contains a large amount.

But you cannot start consuming zinc supplements after a week either. You need to stop for awhile as soon as you start dosing zinc again copper absorption will reduce again and you are back to square one, unable to raise copper levels in the body.

Thanks! I will try this!!

And longterm? How can I keep my zinc and copper up?

I was taking 40 mg zinc over months and my levels are good with that, so I’m a bit scared that they will tank again when I’m not taking super high doses
@redsun

 

[redsun]

Thanks! I will try this!!

And longterm? How can I keep my zinc and copper up?

I was taking 40 mg zinc over months and my levels are good with that, so I’m a bit scared that they will tank again when I’m not taking super high doses
@redsun

Zinc should not be a problem it should be maintained through normal dietary levels of intake (10-20mg from food).

You need to first raise copper levels in the body and probably need to consume very high copper intake for weeks maybe months and your symptoms should start to improve quickly. You have to do it the way I described otherwise you will always not be able to increase copper levels in the body.

 

[Motif]

Zinc should not be a problem it should be maintained through normal dietary levels of intake (10-20mg from food).

You need to first raise copper levels in the body and probably need to consume very high copper intake for weeks maybe months and your symptoms should start to improve quickly. You have to do it the way I described otherwise you will always not be able to increase copper levels in the body.

Great , I will try that! Thanks a lot !

 

[Motif]

@redsun

Oh one more question! What about vitamin c supplements ? Ascorbic acid. Ok when taken away from copper ?

 

[redsun]

@redsun

Oh one more question! What about vitamin c supplements ? Ascorbic acid. Ok when taken away from copper ?

Yes but dont take more than 500mg daily. Focus on copper that is the most important thing in your situation.

 

[Motif]

Yes but dont take more than 500mg daily. Focus on copper that is the most important thing in your situation.

Thanks! I just really need stuff to lower histamine til this is fixed

 

[Motif]

The increased metallothionein expression in the gut due to high dose zinc lasts days maybe even weeks depending on how much you take. It doesnt matter if they are taken at seperate times, copper absorption will be super low. Well I cant see your blood test but "blood" means plasma, so plasma zinc is good.

Hey @redsun

„Blood“ in Germany is only 55% plasma.


My doctors said it looks like I’m still zinc deficient, so what would you do with low zinc and copper?
Makes the whole thing complicated again

 

[redsun]

Hey @redsun

„Blood“ in Germany is only 55% plasma.


My doctors said it looks like I’m still zinc deficient, so what would you do with low zinc and copper?
Makes the whole thing complicated again

You must fix copper levels first before you can fix zinc.

 

[Kayaker]

You must fix copper levels first before you can fix zinc.

What is a good serum copper level?