Your Thoughts Replacing 7.5 Mg Mirtazipine With Cyproheptadine?

CaliforniaKat

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Sep 11, 2015
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127
Hey all,

I have trouble sleeping, and high cortisol, high estrogen, etc. I likely need progesterone which would also help with sleep, but I'm not sure I can handle it metabolically yet.

Have taken 7.5 mg of Mirt since June. I think it is raising adrenaline. I know it works on different receptors at different doses, and that my current dose is typically only used for sleep.

I would like to try to transition to cyproheptadine and am not sure how to go about it. I know the half life of Mirt is much longer, but that they work on some of the same receptors and that there may be cross tolerance. I hope to sleep well on my own at some point and am working on diet, thyroid, light, etc.

I can get to sleep, but have trouble staying asleep.

Thoughts would be greatly appreciated. How to cycle off one and start the other? Do I have to taper or are they similar enough that i can transition from one to another more quickly?
 

olive

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May 17, 2018
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555
Mirt is actually the superior drug.

Cyproheptadine should not be used chronically as it is anticholinergic and lowers dopamine.

If you are having trouble sleeping consistently perhaps there is some other issue.

Are you excerting your body moderately each day? I sleep a lot better after a day of physical labour or exercise. Are you avoiding blue light after dark? Are you sleeping in a cool room with fresh air? Are you waking up naturally with the sun? Are you going to bed at the same time each night? Are you lounging in your bed during the day? Studies show people sleep better when the bed is only used for sleeping. Do you have any hormonal imbalances? Are you eating sufficient calories? Do you have any nutrient deficiencies? Track what you eat with chronometer. Are you excessively stressed? Do you feel safe in your home? Are you breathing through your nose while you sleep? Are you suffering from sleep apnea? Have you had a sleep test done?

Relying on pharmaceuticals for sleep is unwarranted in most cases. There’s a reason why you are having trouble with insomnia. It’s better to address that issue than to be chained to pharmaceuticals for the rest of your life.

Sleep ‘hygeine’ (I hate that term) is very important but often overlooked.
 
OP
C

CaliforniaKat

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I am tracking food with Cronometer and tracking daily and before/after food temps too. I have been following a Peat style diet since August. I do not have nutritional deficiencies that I know of, and eat a decent number of cals daily (2500 or more as a 5 foot 8 female). I was already on Mirt for sleep before I found Peat. I'm trying to address the issues. Stopping the Mirt before I deal with some of the issues is counterproductive.

I am trying to fix hypothyroidism and high cortisol and high estrogen. I have excellent sleep hygiene. I am unable to sleep during the day, even if I were to try.

I would love to get to the point where I sleep well, long, and naturally. But I am not there yet, so have to work towards it from where I am....which for now includes a med I am already taking (as much as I would prefer not to).

No sleep apnea and I don't snore. Sleep with mouth closed, though not taped. Sleep not too cold and not too warm. I tend to burrow in blankets in a cooler room overall. Then stick out a random arm or leg if I get too hot.

I try to get sun daily, take D when I can't, and keep a bright incandescent lamp on me much of the day. My activity varies from day to day, but I do take walks several times a week. I am focusing on healing and lowering stress in general so have cut back/cut out hard/strenuous exercise for now. I'll bring it back when I'm sleeping better.
 

olive

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I am tracking food with Cronometer and tracking daily and before/after food temps too. I have been following a Peat style diet since August. I do not have nutritional deficiencies that I know of, and eat a decent number of cals daily (2500 or more as a 5 foot 8 female). I was already on Mirt for sleep before I found Peat. I'm trying to address the issues. Stopping the Mirt before I deal with some of the issues is counterproductive.

I am trying to fix hypothyroidism and high cortisol and high estrogen. I have excellent sleep hygiene. I am unable to sleep during the day, even if I were to try.

I would love to get to the point where I sleep well, long, and naturally. But I am not there yet, so have to work towards it from where I am....which for now includes a med I am already taking (as much as I would prefer not to).

No sleep apnea and I don't snore. Sleep with mouth closed, though not taped. Sleep not too cold and not too warm. I tend to burrow in blankets in a cooler room overall. Then stick out a random arm or leg if I get too hot.

I try to get sun daily, take D when I can't, and keep a bright incandescent lamp on me much of the day. My activity varies from day to day, but I do take walks several times a week. I am focusing on healing and lowering stress in general so have cut back/cut out hard/strenuous exercise for now. I'll bring it back when I'm sleeping better.
It sounds like your doing the right things. If you can see yourself slowly moving toward better health then I’d stick the course.

Like I said mirt is a superior drug to cypro however feel free to experiment if you wish.
 
OP
C

CaliforniaKat

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I tried it and my overall experience is: cyproheptadine does not augment sleep inducing action of mirtazapine at any dose.
Combining Mirtazapine With Ciproheptadine, Advice Needed

I don't want to augment the Mirt. I want to stop the Mirt, and use Cypro instead. There are a few reasons. Cypro is anti-seretonin, and Mirt raises adrenaline, for starters. Cypro has been discussed as safe by Peat and Haidut. Mirt seems to have a good profile, but Cypro might be better/safer. Both are antihistamines, and that is part of the action that makes them make people sleepy.
 

LCohen

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Mirtazapine is an intense drug. It should keep you in sleep. You must be really stressed. Mirtazapine + Cypro together? Jesus.

My recommendation is stop these medications (at least for a while). Go for "safer" way.

- Oral Progesterone for inducing sleep. Personally it makes me feel sleepy & drunk as hell.
- Magnesium will relax you. It will decrease your cortisol. Maintains your sleep.
- Taurine will decrease adrenaline-noradrenaline.
 
OP
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CaliforniaKat

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Mirtazapine is an intense drug. It should keep you in sleep. You must be really stressed. Mirtazapine + Cypro together? Jesus.

My recommendation is stop these medications (at least for a while). Go for "safer" way.

- Oral Progesterone for inducing sleep. Personally it makes me feel sleepy & drunk as hell.
- Magnesium will relax you. It will decrease your cortisol. Maintains your sleep.
- Taurine will decrease adrenaline-noradrenaline.
I'm not asking to use them together.

I'm asking about the possibility of trading one for the other, and using that instead. Moving off of Mirt and on to Cypro.

I'm having several hot/flushed/sweaty awakenings through the night even on 7.5 mg of Mirt. I know it is likely blood sugar related, which means I'm not storing glycogen. Sweet/salty snacks or salted OJ are not always putting me back to sleep. On a good day I can sleep till 5 am. On a bad day I sleep until about 3 am. I try to go to bed between 9 and 9:30 every night. I have to be up by 6 for work.

Daytime adrenaline is also high. I am hypothyroid and having trouble with stress responses to thyroid meds sometimes too.(that I have been on forever).

I do Epsom Salt baths several a few times a week and use Magnoil, about 5-10 drops daily.

I know I need Progesterone, because I know my estrogen is high. It kinda scares me, okay it a lot scares me and I worry that it will make my crappy sleep worse if my blood sugar is already dropping at night.
 
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I don't want to augment the Mirt. I want to stop the Mirt, and use Cypro instead. There are a few reasons. Cypro is anti-seretonin, and Mirt raises adrenaline, for starters. Cypro has been discussed as safe by Peat and Haidut. Mirt seems to have a good profile, but Cypro might be better/safer. Both are antihistamines, and that is part of the action that makes them make people sleepy.
My point is that cypro does not have sleep inducing properties in my experience.
 

LCohen

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Dec 31, 2017
Messages
257
I'm not asking to use them together.

I'm asking about the possibility of trading one for the other, and using that instead. Moving off of Mirt and on to Cypro.

I'm having several hot/flushed/sweaty awakenings through the night even on 7.5 mg of Mirt. I know it is likely blood sugar related, which means I'm not storing glycogen. Sweet/salty snacks or salted OJ are not always putting me back to sleep. On a good day I can sleep till 5 am. On a bad day I sleep until about 3 am. I try to go to bed between 9 and 9:30 every night. I have to be up by 6 for work.

Daytime adrenaline is also high. I am hypothyroid and having trouble with stress responses to thyroid meds sometimes too.(that I have been on forever).

I do Epsom Salt baths several a few times a week and use Magnoil, about 5-10 drops daily.

I know I need Progesterone, because I know my estrogen is high. It kinda scares me, okay it a lot scares me and I worry that it will make my crappy sleep worse if my blood sugar is already dropping at night.

My bad sorry.

Did you try Taurine? It completely abolished my adrenaline issues.
 
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I have taken it 4-5 times and I sleep like I never do and dream too, which I never do. That said, I also showed elevated liver enzymes on my last blood test which had not been an issue since I have been off all the other bedtime pharmaceuticals. I still need Trazadone, but NOT when I took Cypro. So I am thinking that perhaps I should only take it when I can not function because of the poor rest.
 

dukesbobby777

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Sep 22, 2020
Messages
633
Hey all,

I have trouble sleeping, and high cortisol, high estrogen, etc. I likely need progesterone which would also help with sleep, but I'm not sure I can handle it metabolically yet.

Have taken 7.5 mg of Mirt since June. I think it is raising adrenaline. I know it works on different receptors at different doses, and that my current dose is typically only used for sleep.

I would like to try to transition to cyproheptadine and am not sure how to go about it. I know the half life of Mirt is much longer, but that they work on some of the same receptors and that there may be cross tolerance. I hope to sleep well on my own at some point and am working on diet, thyroid, light, etc.

I can get to sleep, but have trouble staying asleep.

Thoughts would be greatly appreciated. How to cycle off one and start the other? Do I have to taper or are they similar enough that i can transition from one to another more quickly?

Cypro just works sporadically for sleep IMO. People talk about the zombie effects WRT its anti-histamine action, but you grow tolerant to that effect very quickly (to the point where it dissipates completely). If you’re becoming stimulated by 7.5mg of mirtazapine, it suggests you’re becoming accustomed to its anti-histamine mechanism, as others have mentioned, as those lower dosages are the most sedating.

From taking it regularly I don’t think cyproheptadine acts on adrenalin TBH; in fact, it might even make it worse. Regular use sees the sedating effect completely dissapear, and I then find it quite stimulating (on edge). Clonidine does decrease adrenalin, but it’s anti-cholinergic effects appear to be stronger, as the dry mouth is much more apparent to me on that, than cyproheptadine. There is also more of a flat/dull mood on clonidine, which can be quite impairing. But yes, it does a number on adrenalin.
 

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