Your Breasts Don’t Lie: Soy, Flax And Other Estrogenic Foods And Herbs Trigger Precancerous Breasts

PakPik

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Full article: Estrogenic Foods, Herbs That Trigger Precancerous Breasts

Some of the actual thermograms images: Using Thermography to Monitor the Effect of Soy, Flax and Other Estrogenic Products | Dr. Kaayla Daniel

"In Breast Cancer Boot Camp, coauthored with William B. Hobbins MD, Sellens provides striking, irrefutable visual evidence of adverse, precancerous effects on the breasts from birth control pills, hormone replacement therapies, and at least a dozen supposedly healthy estrogenic foods and herbs."
...
"Because thermograms —unlike mammograms or breast ultrasound — show vascularization, they are highly useful for breast health screening and monitoring.

Dr. Hobbins is a former surgeon who pioneered breast cancer detection through both mammography and thermography. Now 90, he continues to urge widespread use of thermography for initial screening and prevention because “the angiogenesis of a breast cancer is not only the earliest sign, but the greatest sign for detection and prognosis in treatment.”"
....
"Dr. Hobbins and Sellens furthermore recommend thermography because it can help women see the effects on their breasts of the many foods, herbs, supplements and other products commonly recommended to support breast health. They’ve consistently seen ill effects from the following:

  • Birth control pills
  • Hormone replacement therapies (including bioidentical hormone replacement therapies)
  • Soy, flax, red clover, alfalfa and other foods high in phytoestrogens
  • Black cohosh, red clover, xiang fu and other herbs high in phytoestrogens
  • Supplements such as DIM and calcium D-glucorate.

Particularly worrisome is their finding of unhealthy, vascularized breasts even in young women."

"Hormone Replacement Therapies

For older women, advocates of hormone replacement therapies not only promise an easy menopause but the fountain of youth. While the dangers of pharmaceutical hormone replacement therapy have been widely publicized, bioidentical hormone replacement therapy is widely promoted as safe and natural. Sadly, thermographic evidence does not bear this out. Bio-identical pills, pellets, patches, creams, all lead to increased vascularization.

“Weak” Estrogenic Foods?

Sellens and Dr. Hobbins particularly want to debunk the myth of “weak” estrogens as found in soy, black cohosh and other plant-based products. Although less potent than pharmaceutical estrogens, “weak” estrogens are not anti-estrogens and can still feed a cancer.

Thermograms show how strong these phytoestrogens really are,” says Sellens. “We see many women who start taking these supposedly healthy products go from ‘at risk’ thermograms to abnormal ones in three months or less. If these weakly estrogenic substances were ‘healthy’ for the breasts, we could expect women who regularly consume them to have non-vascular breasts, which would be evidence of a lack of stimulation and a protective effect.” Having analyzed thousands of thermograms, Sellens reports, “This is just not the case.” "
 
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lollipop

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WoW...great find - and to think that many of these substances were recommended to me before Peat crossed my path: black cohosh, red clover, DIM...
 

Elephanto

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In Japan and other parts of asia, soy consumption is protective against prostate cancer and breast cancer, two estrogen-driven cancers.

Study on soy isoflavone consumption and risk of breast cancer and survival. - PubMed - NCBI
(significantly better survival)

Adolescent and adult soy intake and risk of breast cancer in Asian-Americans. - PubMed - NCBI
(significantly reduced risk)

Soy food consumption and risk of prostate cancer: a meta-analysis of observational studies. - PubMed - NCBI

-

You just can't put all phytoestrogens in the same bag, some will only increase estrogen but others may protect against estrogen by metabolizing it in a safer way. another example is the consumption of broccoli which shows inverse relationship with prostate cancer. Broccoli itself has weak estrogenic activity but one of its compound, I3C, is a very potent anti-estrogen (which Ive personally attested to with I3c supplements).
 

PakPik

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In Japan and other parts of asia, soy consumption is protective against prostate cancer and breast cancer, two estrogen-driven cancers.

Study on soy isoflavone consumption and risk of breast cancer and survival. - PubMed - NCBI
(significantly better survival)

Adolescent and adult soy intake and risk of breast cancer in Asian-Americans. - PubMed - NCBI
(significantly reduced risk)

Soy food consumption and risk of prostate cancer: a meta-analysis of observational studies. - PubMed - NCBI

-

You just can't put all phytoestrogens in the same bag, some will only increase estrogen but others may protect against estrogen by metabolizing it in a safer way. another example is the consumption of broccoli which shows inverse relationship with prostate cancer. Broccoli itself has weak estrogenic activity but one of its compound, I3C, is a very potent anti-estrogen (which Ive personally attested to with I3c supplements).
Did you actually read the article? They found thermograms over and over show neovascularization form soy. That's a very objective way to see the actual effects from soy on breast tissue, regardless of the thousand of theoretical-conjectural articles praising it.
 

Elephanto

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Did you actually read the article? They found thermograms over and over show neovascularization form soy. That's a very objective way to see the actual effects from soy on breast tissue, regardless of the thousand of theoretical-conjectural articles praising it.

Large meta-analyses are way more of a proof of the effects of realistic soy consumption than testing soy directly which may be in excess compared to real consumption. I mean close your eyes if you want but the numbers are there and they are very significant.
 

PakPik

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Large meta-analyses are way more of a proof of the effects of realistic soy consumption than testing soy directly which may be in excess compared to real consumption. I mean close your eyes if you want but the numbers are there and they are very significant.
I believe the opposite to be true. Meta analysis must be taken with a grain of salt, there are for sure good ones, but lots of them serve bad science.

I suggest you read Peat's article Natural Estrogens
This is relevant to our conversation:

"Japanese women's relative freedom from breast cancer is independent of soy products: traditional soy foods aren't the same as those so widely used in the US, for example, soy sauce doesn't contain the so-called soy estrogens, and tea is used much more commonly in Japan than in the US, and contains health protective ingredients. The “estrogenic” and “antioxidant” polyphenolic compounds of tea are not the protective agents (they raise the level of estrogen), but tea's caffeine is a very powerful and general anti-cancer protectant. The influential article in Lancet (D. Ingram, Lancet 1997;350:990-994. “Phytoestrogens and their role in breast cancer,” Breast NEWS: Newsletter of the NHMRC National Breast Cancer Centre, Vol. 3, No. 2, Winter 1997) used a method known to produce false results, namely, comparing the phytoestrogens (found in large amounts in soybeans) in the urine of women with or without breast cancer. For over fifty years, it has been known that the liver excretes estrogens and other toxins from the body, and that when (because of liver inertia) estrogen isn't excreted by the liver and kidneys, it is retained in the body. This process was observed in both animals and humans decades ago, and it is also well established that estrogen itself suppresses the detoxifying systems, causing fewer carcinogens to be excreted in the urine. Ingram's evidence logically would suggest that the women who have cancer are failing to eliminate estrogens, including phytoestrogens, at a normal rate, and so are retaining a higher percentage of the chemicals consumed in their diets. Flavonoids and polyphenols, like our own estrogens, suppress the detoxifying systems of the body."
 

Elephanto

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I believe the opposite to be true. Meta analysis must be taken with a grain of salt, there are for sure good ones, but lots of them serve bad science.

I suggest you read Peat's article Natural Estrogens
This is relevant to our conversation:

"Japanese women's relative freedom from breast cancer is independent of soy products: traditional soy foods aren't the same as those so widely used in the US, for example, soy sauce doesn't contain the so-called soy estrogens, and tea is used much more commonly in Japan than in the US, and contains health protective ingredients. The “estrogenic” and “antioxidant” polyphenolic compounds of tea are not the protective agents (they raise the level of estrogen), but tea's caffeine is a very powerful and general anti-cancer protectant. The influential article in Lancet (D. Ingram, Lancet 1997;350:990-994. “Phytoestrogens and their role in breast cancer,” Breast NEWS: Newsletter of the NHMRC National Breast Cancer Centre, Vol. 3, No. 2, Winter 1997) used a method known to produce false results, namely, comparing the phytoestrogens (found in large amounts in soybeans) in the urine of women with or without breast cancer. For over fifty years, it has been known that the liver excretes estrogens and other toxins from the body, and that when (because of liver inertia) estrogen isn't excreted by the liver and kidneys, it is retained in the body. This process was observed in both animals and humans decades ago, and it is also well established that estrogen itself suppresses the detoxifying systems, causing fewer carcinogens to be excreted in the urine. Ingram's evidence logically would suggest that the women who have cancer are failing to eliminate estrogens, including phytoestrogens, at a normal rate, and so are retaining a higher percentage of the chemicals consumed in their diets. Flavonoids and polyphenols, like our own estrogens, suppress the detoxifying systems of the body."

That method isn't used in those meta-analyses, it's literally dietary intakes.

It just doesn't make sense that something that would greatly promote breast cancer gives 32% less chance of having breast cancer when you eat a LOT of it compared to none.
 
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WoW...great find - and to think that many of these substances were recommended to me before Peat crossed my path: black cohosh, red clover, DIM...

So, it is not wise to consume flax hull lignans? This has been advised by a Dr of Natural Healing friend of mine for hot flashes.
 

PakPik

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So, it is not wise to consume flax hull lignans? This has been advised by a Dr of Natural Healing friend of mine for hot flashes.
Hello Michelle :)
From a Ray Peat point of view most people in a typical nowadays society have estrogen overload, from either environmental or endogenously produced sources. In such scenario, estrogen participates in generating all kinds of metabolic and endocrine damage. Blood tests are not reliable, as estrogen can be high in tissues yet not high in the bloodstream. Tissue estrogen is what really counts. Peat explains that chronic estrogen overload is one of the main causes of hot flashes. I suggest, besides reading Peat's research, you listen to this interview which summarizes the subject very well and explains why estrogen is paradoxically and even dangerously prescribed to diminish hot flashes #17: PMS, PCOS, and Breast Cancer
 
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lollipop

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So, it is not wise to consume flax hull lignans? This has been advised by a Dr of Natural Healing friend of mine for hot flashes.
Hi Michelle :smiley: I agree with @PakPik - I was able to eliminate hot flashes with progesterone and reducing estrogen in my body with diet, raw carrots, etc. Flax hulls would not be the route I would go...
 

PakPik

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Hi Michelle :smiley: I agree with @PakPik - I was able to eliminate hot flashes with progesterone and reducing estrogen in my body with diet, raw carrots, etc. Flax hulls would not be the route I would go...
Same here, @lisaferraro ! I was suffering on and on from hot flashes, every year getting worse! Progest-E was just such a relief! That plus lowering my extremely estrogenic/hypothyroid state.
 

Gametime

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Guys, I'd love some clarification on dates. I know peat has approved of them but they do have a slightly higher phytoestrogen content than a lot of fruits (as most of you probably know), but still no where near as high as soy or flax etc.. I think there can be as low as 300µg worth of phytoestrogens per 100grams worth of dates (as one source suggests) when flax has about 370,000µg of phytoestrogens per 100grams.. I sometimes eat 8-10 organic medjool dates a day, could literally eat 30 a day their so good. Would this be an issue? Thanks! (I also have no issues with dates digestive wise or anything else, in fact, i do excellent on dates and they make me feel good, they are so convenient also!)
 

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Ella

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The high sugar content of fruits such as dates may be a factor in helping liver rid of estrogens efficiently. Estrogens becomes a problem when liver is not able to detoxify and eliminate via proper pathways and excrete through the stool.
 

Gametime

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The high sugar content of fruits such as dates may be a factor in helping liver rid of estrogens efficiently. Estrogens becomes a problem when liver is not able to detoxify and eliminate via proper pathways and excrete through the stool.
That's good to know Ella!
 
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