You Don't Need PUFAs (inflammation) To Grow Muscles

[Hans]

I have noticed a few people on the forum questioning if you can build muscle on a lowish fat, low PUFA diet as you need inflammation to grow muscles.
Also, that taking NSAID like aspirin would hamper muscle protein synthesis due to inhibiting COX and therefor inflammation.
Well there are studies which show that aspirin significantly aids in muscle regeneration and growth in older men, and that it didn't hinder muscle protein synthesis in short term use in untrained men.
Well, I think the following study is worth a mention...

Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids augment the muscle protein anabolic response to hyperaminoacidemia-hyperinsulinemia in healthy young and middle aged men and women
One group took 4g omega 3 for 8 weeks. (Omega 3 displaces arachidonic acid from phospholipids and will result in less inflammation compared to those having more omega 6 in their phospholipids.)
But the omega 3 supplementation didn't hamper muscle protein synthesis, but it would rather seem to have increased it, by means of improving insulin sensitivity. (Image attached.)

Hence a low PUFA diet will not hinder muscle protein synthesis by means of less inflammation, but it would rather seem that muscle growth comes from the ability to regenerate, via internal mechanisms, and not via inflammation.

Anti-oxidants should be avoided a few hours before or after a workout as that will hinder the body's natural ability to heal itself, but I think inflammation is unnecassary for muscle growth. PUFAs are anyway pro-estrogen, pro-cortisol and therefor catabolic, etc. whereas SFAs are anabolic and will aid in better muscle function, integrity and anabolic stimulis.

What do you guys think? Counter and/or complementory studies/arguments welcome.

 

[Vinero]

Eating a low-PUFA diet will lead to elevated thyroid, androgen, and progesterone levels.
These hormones are anti-catabolic, so you will end up with a lot of fat-free mass such as muscle and bone.
Eating a ton of PUFA rich foods will stimulate cortisol, which is known to break down muscle and skin.
PUFA Initiate & Promote The Stress Response (ACTH/cortisol), SFA Inhibit It
Pufa Stimulates Cortisol Production Even In The Absense Of Acth

Given that the omega 6 fats are direct precursors for inflammation, the body reacts with increased cortisol to the inflammation produced by the body. I don't think any bodybuilder considers cortisol to be good for gaining muscle.
If minimizing tissue breakdown is the goal then my bet is on minimizing PUFAs and maximizing sugars, refined starches, SFAs, protein and calories.
Why refined starches? The insulin peak you get is very anabolic, especially combined with protein. That's why bodybuilders eat White Rice with Chicken Breast. High starch and high protein.

 

[Vinero]

By the way, it is obvious a person with a good metabolism produces very little inflammation, and builds muscle easily.
The sick person with a crappy metabolism and high inflammation will have more difficulty building muscle.

 

[nbznj]

I agree with what you're saying @Vinero. It's my experience than when using TRT +mild doses of anabolics like dianabol or turinabol I've had way better results than most steroid junkies who eat trash. People believe it's a genetic response to the drug which is always true to a degree... I believe the overall state of the body is what matters most. Liver health, to begin with, which is closely tied to brain health.

Reasonable daily volumes of good quality oats, yams, wild rice are all solid additions to a Peat-friendly muscle building diet. The former 2 being more nutritious.

So metabolism, inflammation, and general management of life stress.

 

[Optimus]

Whenever I add Aspirin (or niacinamide) I seem to put some fat. Although low dose niacinamide 2-3 times a day seemed not to do that.

 

[Hans]

I wanted to post this study, as other resources on the internet state that higher fat intake, 30-60%, results in higher testosterone and better ability to build muscle. SFA correlates positively and PUFA negatively. Many people here try to limit PUFA intake and end up around 20% fat, possibly lower as well, to get around 1.5-4g PUFA a day.
Then you might question, if 30-40% fat is best for building muscle, then 20% might be slightly inferior. Plus, some studies show that: "Arachidonic acid promotes the repair and growth of skeletal muscle tissue via conversion to prostaglandin PGF2alpha during and following physical exercise.[20]" and "Supplementation of arachidonic acid (1,500 mg/day for 8 weeks) has been shown to increase lean body mass, strength, and anaerobic power in experienced resistance-trained men. This was demonstrated in a placebo-controlled study at the University of Tampa. Thirty men (aged 20.4 ± 2.1 years) took arachidonic acid or a placebo for 8 weeks, and participated in a controlled resistance-training program. After 8 weeks, Lean Body Mass (LBM) had increased significantly, and to a greater extent, in the ARA group (1.62 kg) vs. placebo (0.09 kg) (p<0.05). The change in muscle thickness was also greater in the ARA group (.47 cm) than placebo (.25 cm) (p<0.05). Wingate anaerobic power increased to a greater extent in ARA group as well (723.01 to 800.66 W) vs. placebo (738.75 to 766.51 W). Lastly, the change in total strength was significantly greater in the ARA group (109.92 lbs.) compared to placebo (75.78 lbs.). These results suggest that ARA supplementation can positively augment adaptations in strength and skeletal muscle hypertrophy in resistance-trained men.[30]" Many top bodybuilders in the '40-70s actually used a ketogenic diet (plus additional arachidonic acid supplementation) during cutting and when building muscle.

To show inflammation is not necessary for muscle growth, I posted about NSAIDs were beneficial for elderly individuals and neutral to untrained individuals.

I don't think any bodybuilder considers cortisol to be good for gaining muscle

Absolutely not, but that additional arachidonic supplement resulted in better muscle gains, not less. However, PUFA may be "beneficial" in the short term, it's definitely not in the long term. Hence, my post that inflammation (PUFA) is not needed to build muscle.

Why refined starches? The insulin peak you get is very anabolic, especially combined with protein. That's why bodybuilders eat White Rice with Chicken Breast. High starch and high protein.

Is carbohydrate needed to further stimulate muscle protein synthesis/hypertrophy following resistance exercise? This study would disagree with you. Carbs is not needed. Protein stimulate MPS enough and carbs does not add to that benefit. Insulin is needed to drive amino acids into muscles for anabolism, and that's why it's beneficial to be insulin sensitive, hence the benefit of fish oils (as mentioned above). Chicken breast is also a poor choice of protein and should not be used when building muscle, but rather red meat, as it's much richer in nutrients. "Bodybuilders" eat chicken breast and white rice because they blow all their money on steroids and have little left for quality food. You can get pretty big on steroids while eating very inadequately. However that is not the way to go.

 

[Hans]

Whenever I add Aspirin (or niacinamide) I seem to put some fat. Although low dose niacinamide 2-3 times a day seemed not to do that.

Is that with or without exercise?

 

[Vinero]

I agree red meat is better as it is very rich in zinc, which is a great T booster.
Protein might be enough to create an insulin peak, but that insulin will decrease blood sugar, so you need carbs with protein to prevent blood sugar from falling. I once ate a large plate of lean fish with eggs for breakfast, zero carbs. Then went to college, I nearly fainted in class because of the low blood sugar.
Arachidonic acid can indeed cause muscle growth, I have seen that study, and Haidut mentioned it in one of his podcasts with Danny roddy. Some bodybuilders use Arachidonic acid to spur muscle growth. I don't know if that's safe, I think there are safer ways to grow muscle.

 

[Hans]

I once ate a large plate of lean fish with eggs for breakfast, zero carbs

I've done ketogenic dieting before with below 20g carbs daily while exercising intensely and didn't experience any drop in blood sugar. I was eating a protein to fat ratio of about 1:1, so fat combined with protein helps to prevent that drop in blood sugar.

Arachidonic acid can indeed cause muscle growth

Does it? Effects of arachidonic acid supplementation on training adaptations in resistance-trained males. - PubMed - NCBI "AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy" after 50 days. Maybe the study was too short or the dose too low. Also, "However, no statistically significant differences were observed between groups in body composition, strength, anabolic and catabolic hormones, or markers of muscle hypertrophy (i.e. total protein content or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx protein content) and other intramuscular markers (i.e. FP and EP3 receptor density or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx mRNA expression)."

Anyway, I just wanted to show that inflammation from PUFA is not needed for building muscle.

 

[Vinero]

I've done ketogenic dieting before with below 20g carbs daily while exercising intensely and didn't experience any drop in blood sugar. I was eating a protein to fat ratio of about 1:1, so fat combined with protein helps to prevent that drop in blood sugar.
Does it? Effects of arachidonic acid supplementation on training adaptations in resistance-trained males. - PubMed - NCBI "AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy" after 50 days. Maybe the study was too short or the dose too low. Also, "However, no statistically significant differences were observed between groups in body composition, strength, anabolic and catabolic hormones, or markers of muscle hypertrophy (i.e. total protein content or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx protein content) and other intramuscular markers (i.e. FP and EP3 receptor density or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx mRNA expression)."

Anyway, I just wanted to show that inflammation from PUFA is not needed for building muscle.

It would be strange if inflammation would be essential for growth.
PUFA increases inflammation, PUFA also increases cortisol (and estrogen), which leads to tissue breakdown.
Don't see how inflammation can be anabolic in that sense.

 

[Vinero]

I agree with what you're saying @Vinero. It's my experience than when using TRT +mild doses of anabolics like dianabol or turinabol I've had way better results than most steroid junkies who eat trash. People believe it's a genetic response to the drug which is always true to a degree... I believe the overall state of the body is what matters most. Liver health, to begin with, which is closely tied to brain health.

Reasonable daily volumes of good quality oats, yams, wild rice are all solid additions to a Peat-friendly muscle building diet. The former 2 being more nutritious.

So metabolism, inflammation, and general management of life stress.

Liver health can be improved by caffeine, vitamin K2, and saturated fats.
The liver also needs adequate protein and B vitamins to detoxify estrogen and endotoxin.
Estrogen and endotoxin are the biggest burden for the liver.
I don't have much knowledge about those steroids, do they increase testosterone only? Or do they increase estrogen as well?

 

[Vinero]

I wanted to post this study, as other resources on the internet state that higher fat intake, 30-60%, results in higher testosterone and better ability to build muscle. SFA correlates positively and PUFA negatively. Many people here try to limit PUFA intake and end up around 20% fat, possibly lower as well, to get around 1.5-4g PUFA a day.
Then you might question, if 30-40% fat is best for building muscle, then 20% might be slightly inferior.

This is significant. This is a good reason not to eat a low-fat diet.

 

[Hans]

Thought this might be interesting as well.
Aerobic training affects fatty acid composition of erythrocyte membranes
"In particular, exhaustive endurance exercise generates excess RONS, leading to inflammatory responses and damage to DNA, proteins and lipids [4]." and "HT (high intensity) rats develop higher levels of HSP70i protein and SOD activity than LT rats [9]; iii) a decrease of ω6/ω3 in HT rats points to an exercise-related reduction of inflammatory responses; iv) an increase in stearic acid amount in HT rats is related to the mobilization of PUFA from membranes and the subsequent insertion of SFA for membrane lipid regeneration; the consequent increase in membrane stiffness may be a toll to pay in exchange of increased membrane stability and decreased P.I., both valuable during training"

 

[Optimus]

Is that with or without exercise?

I seemed to happen in both cases - with and without resistance training.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think @haidut says that muscle growth is basically just lowering of catabolism.

 

[Vinero]

I think @haidut says that muscle growth is basically just lowering of catabolism.

Haidut posted a study which said that progesterone was one of the most powerful anti-catabolic steroids.
But this doesn't make sense, females are on average less muscular than males.
Higher androgen levels are probably the main reason males gain muscle easier.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Haidut posted a study which said that progesterone was one of the most powerful anti-catabolic steroids.
But this doesn't make sense, females are on average less muscular than males.
Higher androgen levels are probably the main reason males gain muscle easier.

Androgens are anti-cortisol

 

[Vinero]

Androgens are anti-cortisol

True. But I don't think anti-catabolism is the only thing required to gain muscle.
Otherwise females with high progesterone levels should gain muscle easily, but they can't.
Even though progesterone is the most powerful anti-catabolic hormone.

 

[Such_Saturation]

True. But I don't think anti-catabolism is the only thing required to gain muscle.
Otherwise females with high progesterone levels should gain muscle easily, but they can't.
Even though progesterone is the most powerful anti-catabolic hormone.

Well then is anti-catabolic different from anabolic? How can we differentiate the two?

 

[Vinero]

Testosterone or another androgen is anabolic I think, it explains why males gain muscle much easier.