You Can Eat All The Kcal From Protein/sugar You Want Without Stored As Fat On A Fat Deficient Diet?

[berk]

two quotes from a other topic:

if you want to loose fat you cant eat as many calories as you burn

Yes you can, if you eat a fat deficient diet, your body will use its fat stores for normal bodily processes involving fat. The carbs and protein won't be stored as fat so even though you are eating at maintanance or even above, you will still be losing fat and any excess energy will be dissapated as heat production.

what is your experience or opinion?

 

[Dobbler]

I think fat free diet should be very therapeutic for every health condition there is, with right foods of course like fruit, tubers, fat free dairy products , seafood etc. but in practice it's really hard for many people. Personally i can't go a day without fat, the cravings get really bad almost immediately. Even low fat, like 30g is really hard. It does feel good energy and mental wise but the hunger is just unbearable and food is just not satisfying without fat. You can force it and tolerate it like any other diet but damn is it hard.

 

[Hans]

two quotes from a other topic:





what is your experience or opinion?

I tried very low fat, like around 10g for a while from just skim milk and sugar and didn't lose any fat. I think I gained a little though.
The body isn't as simple as cut out fat to burn fat. As your dietary fat drops your body increases the conversion of carbs to fat dramatically. Plus, your body might burn up the sugar very rapidly and then you need to eat every 30-60 minutes so that you don't pass out from hunger. If you don't eat you have to secrete cortisol to create more glucose.

On the other end of the spectrum, your insulin might go up a lot and once your carbs are all burned up your insulin is still high. Then you eat again and insulin just goes higher. Insulin resistance develops.

It all depends on the person. Some people do real well on it whereas others can't do it. There's nothing wrong with you if you can't do it.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

There is a heuristic among Carnivore dieters, and that is: calories from protein don't count.
Very high protein diets are extremely effective for weight loss.

 

[CLASH]

Nope this isn't reality. Alot of People on this forum have tried this with some disappointing results.

@Hans
I got labs when I was doing very low fat, very high carb. I didnt develop insulin resistance, I actually became very insulin sensitive. HbA1C below reference range, blood sugar in the low 70's, insulin in bottom of range. However, as you mentioned I had to eat every hour or I'd get massive adrenaline rushes. I also overtime developed brain fog, digestive issues (from all the adrenaline I think), felt like I was castrated from a hormonal perspective and lost strength and muscle mass.


This isn't for Hans, but just In general, I think the idea that sugars are going to convert into cholesterol and fat, and subsequently provide substrate for hormone production on a very low fat diet, isn't reality at all. I also think this whole randal cycle idea is pointless and doesnt matter that much. The body will deal with both fat and sugar just fine in most cases, on a nutrient replete diet of foods that don't irritate the individual.

For those who are new to Peating, an all milk, OJ, granulated sugar, ice cream, and chocolate diet with the occasional liver and oysters has made many people here overweight and some almost obese. Playing with fat content on that diet hasn't seemed to make much difference for most people. These observations are coming from someone who has been on the forum for a few (4?) years now and who has been applying peats principles for even longer.

 

[Jennifer]

two quotes from a other topic:





what is your experience or opinion?

I can eat all the kcals from protein and sugar that I want without storing it as fat on a fat deficient diet, but I can do the same on a high fat low-carb or mixed macros diet because for me it comes down to calories and I naturally desire around the same amount daily no matter the macro makeup of my diet.

I didn't come to the forum having previously followed calorie restriction/a restrictive diet that resulted in undereating so even when I was consuming lots of ice cream, chocolate etc. while Peating, I didn't gain weight. I ate the same amount of calories that was typical for me. Only now has my caloric requirement gone up (by 500+ cals) and I suspect this is due to taking thyroid (NDT).

With that said, I'm not sure if it's because my preferred carb source is fruit, but I get hunger pangs regardless of the amount of calories I've had if I haven't had a substantial source of either fat or protein at some point during the day. Currently it's fat (young coconut meat and to a lesser extent, avocado and olives), but previously I opted for protein (shellfish and eggs).

 

[powerlifter]

Even if you used your stored fat when you eat too many calories the excess sugar is going to be stored as fat. Ray Peat is very cautious with his wordings on the issue, he generally says you can increase carb intake around 200grams without gaining weight.

 

[Hans]

@Hans
I got labs when I was doing very low fat, very high carb. I didnt develop insulin resistance, I actually became very insulin sensitive. HbA1C below reference range, blood sugar in the low 70's, insulin in bottom of range. However, as you mentioned I had to eat every hour or I'd get massive adrenaline rushes. I also overtime developed brain fog, digestive issues (from all the adrenaline I think), felt like I was castrated from a hormonal perspective and lost strength and muscle mass.

Yes absolutely, eating very high carb very low fat could be a great way to improve insulin sensitivity for some, but I think it could make it worse for others. I'm pretty sure I also improved my insulin sensitivity when I was doing it, but it didn't feel all that good. Fat surely improved my satiety, gave me more stable energy, and so on.

 

[berk]

first you say in your fat loss on low fat experiment was great:

So I switched to moderate protein (80g), high carb (300-400g) and moderate to low fat (40g) for a month. The pumps were pretty insane, my mood was great, and I had more stable energy during the day. I also noticed that my tolerance to carbs was much better, as the low carb diet must have improved my insulin sensitivity. But after about a month my fat loss stared to stall again, so I decided to increase my protein to 140-150g and reduce fats to 20-30g. I then started to lose fat again at a decent, steady rate.

Fat Loss On Low Fat, My Experiment

Also you promote on you website that carbs dont make you fat:
Why sugar doesn't make you fat - the ultimate guide on lipogenesis » MenElite

nou you telling the exact opposite

I tried very low fat, like around 10g for a while from just skim milk and sugar and didn't lose any fat. I think I gained a little though.
The body isn't as simple as cut out fat to burn fat. As your dietary fat drops your body increases the conversion of carbs to fat dramatically. Plus, your body might burn up the sugar very rapidly and then you need to eat every 30-60 minutes so that you don't pass out from hunger. If you don't eat you have to secrete cortisol to create more glucose.

you trolling?

 

[Hans]

first you say in your fat loss on low fat experiment was great:

Fat Loss On Low Fat, My Experiment

Also you promote on you website that carbs dont make you fat:
Why sugar doesn't make you fat - the ultimate guide on lipogenesis » MenElite

nou you telling the exact opposite

you trolling?

In the top quote I was in a deficit that is why I was losing fat. In the bottom quote I was in a surplus.
Low fat can be a strategy to lose fat but for me I still had to be in a deficit.

If the body is in an unhealthy state carbs can make you fat (due to defective glucose utilization), but if glucose oxidation is optimized then carbs should not make you fat. It still comes down to total calories and how fast someones' metabolism can burn off the calories.

I'm never trolling dude.

 

[berk]

In the top quote I was in a deficit that is why I was losing fat. In the bottom quote I was in a surplus.
Low fat can be a strategy to lose fat but for me I still had to be in a deficit.
.

ah ok, now it sounds more logical ;-)
i agree with you and i think a deficit is always need if someone want lose bodyfat. no matter how the diet looks like.