Would You Be Interested In A Choline Supplement?

[Zpol]

@Amazoniac
Any success with creating or finding a safe Choline supplement?
I found two possibilities for phosphatidylcholine at least; BioPure LipoSorb & PhosChol.
The LipoSorb is 700mg phosphatidylcholine per teaspoon, it's derived from soy but third party testing indicates no residual soy is detectable.
The PhosChol one is interesting because it has 0g PUFA according to the label. It is from soy as well and would need to be tested for residual soy.
Chris Masterjohn said that only 15% of Phosphatidylcholine is choline so there would still be a need for other sources. But I'm wondering if supplying enough phosphatidylcholine can be enough to thin out bile and get the liver functioning again, at least well enough to be able to detox estrogen and endotoxin.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Amazoniac
Any success with creating or finding a safe Choline supplement?
I found two possibilities for phosphatidylcholine at least; BioPure LipoSorb & PhosChol.
The LipoSorb is 700mg phosphatidylcholine per teaspoon, it's derived from soy but third party testing indicates no residual soy is detectable.
The PhosChol one is interesting because it has 0g PUFA according to the label. It is from soy as well and would need to be tested for residual soy.
Chris Masterjohn said that only 15% of Phosphatidylcholine is choline so there would still be a need for other sources. But I'm wondering if supplying enough phosphatidylcholine can be enough to thin out bile and get the liver functioning again, at least well enough to be able to detox estrogen and endotoxin.

I used to think that Jorge's product could be used as a choline source if the person was willing to get a new bottle every 5 days or so, but it would be providing something close to 5 g of vitamin E each day: out of question.

Unless its presence is important for facilitating transdermal absorption, I can't think of a good reason to include it at such doses for regular use, some people use more than one product containing it. It creates a dependency when the person could easily purchase his (great) vitamin E product separately and combine as needed, having multiple compounds together in a bottle with one being on the extreme side rapidly becomes limiting. It also blurs the effect of the main compounds, there will be users attributing the benefit to phosphatidylcholines when it could be from high doses of vitamin E. It wouldn't be surprising because each serving contains 800 mg of vitamin E and 200 mg of phosphatidylcholines, and this isn't a fair comparison; it's more a vitamin E than a phosphatidylcholine product. It's why removing or reducing it now would probably lead to complaints because customers likely got used to it this way. Could be renamed to Mitocolipin and include vitamin E as a main ingredient.

For comparison, the majority of similar products on the market provide more than 0.4 g of shady phosphatidylcholine per serving, whereas Jorge's 0.2 g (probably being prudent and there's the cost issue). It's not difficult to find ones that are dosed in spoons, providing something like 4 g. It's brutal, yet (after a quick search) each egg appears to contain slightly more than 1 g of it. Don't get me wrong, the forms present in his product are unique, he's just going overboard with what was supposed to be an aqjuvant and preventing liberal use.

The safest option continues to be glycerophosphocholine because the fatty acids are removed and there's no risk of unwanted incorporation with the accompanying unsaturated fats. If I'm not wrong, one fatty acid of the molecule tends to be conserved during digestion.

Spoiler

- Lipids Are Hydrophobic Molecules | MacMillan Higher Ed

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- Lehninger Principles of Biochemistry (978-0-7167-7108-1)

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- GPC (GlyceroPhosphoCholine) Mind-Body Power for Active Living and Healthy Aging (978-0-9793979-0-5)

"What's in the Name GPC?

The scientific literature contains many different names for GPC. The most modern and correct name is glycerophosphocholine, or more technically glycero(3)phosphocholine, from which comes GPC. This name was set by the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemists (IUPAC), acting together with the International Union of Biochemists (IUB). These groups work by consensus to develop the authoritative* IUPAC-IUB Nomenclature respected by scientists worldwide. Many other names have been used for GPC, including glycerylphosphorylcholine and L-alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine. The term glyceryl- has now been replaced by glycerol-, according to IUPAC-IUB. The "L-alpha-" seen on some dietary supplement labels is outmoded. Also outmoded are the names choline alfoscerate and choline alphoscerate."​

*It's valuable to have terms standardized to simplify search and comprehension, discouragement starts from confusing nomenclature.

I've witnessed some authors abbreviating it as 'L-a', it's similar to calling killcidiol '25(OH)'.
- L-alpha-glycerophosphocholine contributes to meat's enhancement of nonheme iron absorption


- Glycerophospholipid - Wikipedia
- Differentiation of isomeric lipids using novel ion activation methods in mass spectrometry

- Process for preparing alpha-glycerophosphorylcholine

- The Nomenclature of Lipids | The Journal of Lipid Research (!)
- Nomenclature of Lipids | IUPAC-IUB Commission on Biochemical Nomenclature (CBN)

- Versatile roles of lipids and carotenoids in membranes

Spoiler

- Altered Metabolic Profile in Congenital Lung Lesions Revealed by 1 H Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy

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I couldn't highlight the carbons.

- Response of Phosphatidylcholine in the Gel and Liquid-Crystalline States to Membrane Surface Charges


- Phospholipase - Wikipedia
- Lipids: Key Players That Modulate α-Synuclein Toxicity and Neurodegeneration in Parkinson's Disease

Spoiler

 

[sunny]

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[Vajra]

@Amazoniac
Any success with creating or finding a safe Choline supplement?
I found two possibilities for phosphatidylcholine at least; BioPure LipoSorb & PhosChol.
The LipoSorb is 700mg phosphatidylcholine per teaspoon, it's derived from soy but third party testing indicates no residual soy is detectable.
The PhosChol one is interesting because it has 0g PUFA according to the label. It is from soy as well and would need to be tested for residual soy.
Chris Masterjohn said that only 15% of Phosphatidylcholine is choline so there would still be a need for other sources. But I'm wondering if supplying enough phosphatidylcholine can be enough to thin out bile and get the liver functioning again, at least well enough to be able to detox estrogen and endotoxin.

If it's from soy lecithin, it's gonna be ~59% dilinoleoylphosphatidylcholine (e.g. this vendor claiming up to 52%). I think if there are fats on the label, it's from the PC. They just didn't include it.

But btw, this site seems to sell the exact same thing as BioPure, but cheaper: Pure PC® - Liposomal Pure Phosphatidylcholine | Quicksilver Scientific

 

[Zpol]

If it's from soy lecithin, it's gonna be ~59% dilinoleoylphosphatidylcholine (e.g. this vendor claiming up to 52%). I think if there are fats on the label, it's from the PC. They just didn't include it.

But btw, this site seems to sell the exact same thing as BioPure, but cheaper: Pure PC® - Liposomal Pure Phosphatidylcholine | Quicksilver Scientific

Hey thanks! Good to know.
I haven't actually started using this type of supp yet because of my concern regarding the fat and soy. But it's still on my radar as a possibility so I appreciate the info.

 

[Highserotonin90]

Does DMSO inhibit the choline-degrading enzyme? I don't remember but I seem to have read that solvents have this characteristic. Can you clarify me? Thank you @Hans