Would Methylene Blue oxidize iron?

[UG Krishnamurti]

Since I'm not very intelligent I hope somebody would help me with this:

If I had iron overload in my tissues. Intestines for example. Would ingesting something like Methylene Blue cause the oxidation of that iron and cause more problems?

STUDY: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3005530/
"MB also directly inhibits both constitutive and inducible forms of nitric oxide synthase (NOS) by oxidation of ferrous iron bound to the enzyme (Mayer et al., 1993; Volke et al., 1999). It inactivates nitric oxide (NO) by generation of superoxide anions."

@haidut @Hans Sorry to bother you guys maybe you can offer a quick response. Much love.

 

[xeliex]

Following - you are intelligent.

 

[Hans]

Since I'm not very intelligent I hope somebody would help me with this:

If I had iron overload in my tissues. Intestines for example. Would ingesting something like Methylene Blue cause the oxidation of that iron and cause more problems?

STUDY: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3005530/
"MB also directly inhibits both constitutive and inducible forms of nitric oxide synthase (NOS) by oxidation of ferrous iron bound to the enzyme (Mayer et al., 1993; Volke et al., 1999). It inactivates nitric oxide (NO) by generation of superoxide anions."

@haidut @Hans Sorry to bother you guys maybe you can offer a quick response. Much love.

Methylene blue might convert Fe2+ to Fe3+, but lysomethylene blue can convert Fe3+ back to Fe2+. So reacting methylene blue with vit C will create lysomethylene blue. If you think there's iron in your gut, then that's prob the best way to go about it.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

RP: "I think it could work like ascorbic acid or glutathione in the presence of iron or copper, creating a stream of oxidations and reductions.
I think it can produce harmful free radicals. There are chelators that help to remove excess iron, but just drinking coffee helps."

Would applying MB topically avoid or reduce free radical production what do you guys think?

 

[Hans]

RP: "I think it could work like ascorbic acid or glutathione in the presence of iron or copper, creating a stream of oxidations and reductions.
I think it can produce harmful free radicals. There are chelators that help to remove excess iron, but just drinking coffee helps."

Would applying MB topically avoid or reduce free radical production what do you guys think?

If you have iron overload, then using very small amounts of MB might be best until you lower your iron stores.

 

[Dr. B]

RP: "I think it could work like ascorbic acid or glutathione in the presence of iron or copper, creating a stream of oxidations and reductions.
I think it can produce harmful free radicals. There are chelators that help to remove excess iron, but just drinking coffee helps."

Would applying MB topically avoid or reduce free radical production what do you guys think?

is that his response to you asking about MB in general? or methylene blue interaction with iron?

Methylene blue might convert Fe2+ to Fe3+, but lysomethylene blue can convert Fe3+ back to Fe2+. So reacting methylene blue with vit C will create lysomethylene blue. If you think there's iron in your gut, then that's prob the best way to go about it.

how do we get lysomethylene blue?

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

If you have iron overload, then using very small amounts of MB might be best until you lower your iron stores.

Hey @Hans thanks for responding.


Don't understand this one I'm afraid.

Methylene blue might convert Fe2+ to Fe3+, but lysomethylene blue can convert Fe3+ back to Fe2+. So reacting methylene blue with vit C will create lysomethylene blue. If you think there's iron in your gut, then that's prob the best way to go about it.

The problem is I was taking 400 and 800 mcg of MB a day and I felt cognitive improvement as well as deeper breathing and calming effect.
But I also feel some intestinal discomfort - similar to when I was carnivore. Like the bowel is getting more stiff or "calcifying". [Mind you I have crohn's and a lot of tissue damage and fibrosis probably in the small intestine]
Also I feel extreme nerve pain in my hip - I couldn't walk for the past 2 days. Last night I didn't take MB and I feel 50% better. Tomorrow I will probably feel nothing.

I don't know of these could be indication of anti pathogenic effects of MB or effects of some free radicals being created by oxidizing iron.

Symptoms became apparent after the 2nd day and a big lamb dinner - which could suggest It is the iron in combination with MB.
Would topical route avoid these issues if they are specifically in the gut?

 

[Hans]

is that his response to you asking about MB in general? or methylene blue interaction with iron?



how do we get lysomethylene blue?

When methylene blue accepts electrons from the electron transport chain or vit C for example, then it becomes reduced (lysomethylene blue).

 

[Hans]

Hey @Hans thanks for responding.


Don't understand this one I'm afraid.


The problem is I was taking 400 and 800 mcg of MB a day and I felt cognitive improvement as well as deeper breathing and calming effect.
But I also feel some intestinal discomfort - similar to when I was carnivore. Like the bowel is getting more stiff or "calcifying". [Mind you I have crohn's and a lot of tissue damage and fibrosis probably in the small intestine]
Also I feel extreme nerve pain in my hip - I couldn't walk for the past 2 days. Last night I didn't take MB and I feel 50% better. Tomorrow I will probably feel nothing.

I don't know of these could be indication of anti pathogenic effects of MB or effects of some free radicals being created by oxidizing iron.

Symptoms became apparent after the 2nd day and a big lamb dinner - which could suggest It is the iron in combination with MB.
Would topical route avoid these issues if they are specifically in the gut?

Basically, methylene blue converts iron to its reactive form, whereas lysomethylene blue converts it to its non-reactive form.
Methylene blue could potentially be used by fungus, since they have similar mitochondria as us. This might worsen your symptoms?

 

[Dr. B]

Basically, methylene blue converts iron to its reactive form, whereas lysomethylene blue converts it to its non-reactive form.
Methylene blue could potentially be used by fungus, since they have similar mitochondria as us. This might worsen your symptoms?

is it true methylene blue interferes with folate synthesis? wikipedia said that, i could be mixing it up with a different substance, maybe it was aspirin and salicylates

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Methylene blue could potentially be used by fungus, since they have similar mitochondria as us. This might worsen your symptoms?

What about all the claims of MB being antifungal? :)
You are basically saying MB is feeding the fungus? xd

Basically, methylene blue converts iron to its reactive form, whereas lysomethylene blue converts it to its non-reactive form.

What does that depend on precisely?
Does the unpredictable nature of MB in terms of being oxidizing and antioxidizing agent could account for that conversion and therefore it's not always going to happen? -Sry if that is a dumb question.

 

[Hans]

is it true methylene blue interferes with folate synthesis? wikipedia said that, i could be mixing it up with a different substance, maybe it was aspirin and salicylates

Not sure. Haven't seen anything related to that.

 

[Hans]

What about all the claims of MB being antifungal? :)
You are basically saying MB is feeding the fungus? xd

Yeah I know haha, but some people have reported that they got white tongue from it. Just a theory.

What does that depend on precisely?
Does the unpredictable nature of MB in terms of being oxidizing and antioxidizing agent could account for that conversion and therefore it's not always going to happen? -Sry if that is a dumb question.

If your cells are respiring quickly and producing a lot of electrons, then methylene blue will mostly be in a reduced state, since it's accepting the electrons and then donating them to cytochrome C.
But instead of donating to Cyt C, it can also donate to iron. So if your cells are working properly, it might keep iron in a safe state moreso than a harmful state.

 

[Dr. B]

Not sure. Haven't seen anything related to that.

actually i think it was this

Sulfonamide (medicine) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In bacteria, antibacterial sulfonamides act as competitive inhibitors of the enzyme dihydropteroate synthase (DHPS), an enzyme involved in folate synthesis. Sulfonamides are therefore bacteriostatic and inhibit growth and multiplication of bacteria, but do not kill them. Humans, in contrast to bacteria, acquire folate (vitamin B9) through the diet.

but i was originally looking at some other substance or supplement which was considered a sulfonamide

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Yeah I know haha, but some people have reported that they got white tongue from it. Just a theory.

Interesting. But pretty sure it's not true in my case since I had similar effect by using pure cascara powder , pure niacinamide powder, aspirin [great increase in tinnitus], cynoplus/cynomel and now methylene blue.
It seems that my gut tissues are only able to take certain amount of "stimulation". Probably because being very fibrotic and calcified since years of inflammation because of Crohn's disease. I usually always get some skin problems and some feeling of high blood calcium after these substances. Not sure about the mechanisms still.

Interestingly I cured all my gut symptoms and skin issues after going fruit based for 6 months. Probably because of low iron, fast digestion and improved bowel movement and glucose oxidation - But I felt it wasn't sustainable plus some problems still lingered on :)
Felt even better 1.4 year on RP advices until I used high doses of VIT D3 - then all went downhill from there - even more so than before

If your cells are respiring quickly and producing a lot of electrons, then methylene blue will mostly be in a reduced state, since it's accepting the electrons and then donating them to cytochrome C.
But instead of donating to Cyt C, it can also donate to iron. So if your cells are working properly, it might keep iron in a safe state moreso than a harmful state.

So basically the state of my cells and it's environment are going to be deciding factor in MB being a good substances for me or not :)
That's not a good thing for me xd

 

[mostlylurking]

The problem is I was taking 400 and 800 mcg of MB a day and I felt cognitive improvement as well as deeper breathing and calming effect.
But I also feel some intestinal discomfort - similar to when I was carnivore. Like the bowel is getting more stiff or "calcifying". [Mind you I have crohn's and a lot of tissue damage and fibrosis probably in the small intestine]
Also I feel extreme nerve pain in my hip - I couldn't walk for the past 2 days. Last night I didn't take MB and I feel 50% better. Tomorrow I will probably feel nothing.

So basically the state of my cells and it's environment are going to be deciding factor in MB being a good substances for me or not :)
That's not a good thing for me xd

I'd like to offer another perspective based on my experience with MB. I am very sensitive to serotonin, probably because I followed my doctor's orders and supplemented with 5HTP for something like 10 years. Big mistake. MB is an MAO inhibitor.

Methylene blue and serotonin toxicity: inhibition of monoamine oxidase A (MAO A) confirms a theoretical prediction - PubMed

MB is a potent reversible inhibitor of MAO A with implications for gut uptake of amines when administered orally. At concentrations reported in the literature after intravenous administration, MAO B would be partially inhibited but MAO A would be completely inhibited. This inhibition of MAO A...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I react badly to even a small dose of MB. If your serotonin is high or if you are sensitive to serotonin, MB can cause problems.

I too suffer from hip pain. I think that for me at least, this is caused by endotoxin. If my digestive tract is working well, then I don't have the hip pain. If digestion slows down then my hip joint hurts.

I've had excellent improvement with how my digestive tract works by taking high dose thiamine. It solved my slow digestion by correcting the problems I had developed with my autonomic nervous system. A side benefit (at least for me) is that thiamine lowers serotonin.

This one might be of interest:

Thiamine and fatigue in inflammatory bowel diseases: an open-label pilot study - PubMed

The absence of blood thiamine deficiency and the efficacy of high-dose thiamine in our patients suggest that fatigue is the manifestation of a thiamine deficiency, likely due to a dysfunction of the active transport of thiamine inside the cells, or due to structural enzymatic abnormalities. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

also:

Gastrointestinal Disease and Thiamine - Hormones Matter

Modern research has revealed that the GI tract has a very complex relationship with the rest of the body, especially the brain.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Although I was never diagnosed with Crohn's disease, I did suffer from leaky gut and SIBO for many years and was also diagnosed with extreme gluten sensitivity.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

I react badly to even a small dose of MB. If your serotonin is high or if you are sensitive to serotonin, MB can cause problems.

What do you consider small dose?
Based on my research under 1mg hardly causes serotonin problems.

Georgie: There is one danger of MB - In high doses it is known to inhibit the enzyme MAO inhibitor. That enzyme is responsible for degrading serotonin. So if you inhibit that enzyme you will build up serotonin. I don’t think it’s been shown that it can on it’s own do that, but only in combination with some other SSRI drugs. Doses at which this happened are over 100mg in a single dose.

On the other hand hypothetically it can cause some fungal/bacterial imbalances which could maybe cause some irritation - and any irritation in the intestine is going to raise serotonin.
I think I didn't have the serotonin surge because I immediately felt calmer with less racing thoughts and was breathing better. That is dopaminergic effect as far as I know.

I too suffer from hip pain. I think that for me at least, this is caused by endotoxin. If my digestive tract is working well, then I don't have the hip pain. If digestion slows down then my hip joint hurts.

Yeah that correlates with my experiences as well. I just don't know why would MB cause that. Is it by being an antifungal/anti-viral/antibacterial and some detox process occurs or something else.

I will experiment.

 

[mostlylurking]

What do you consider small dose?
Based on my research under 1mg hardly causes serotonin problems.

I was taking less than an 1mg. During that same time period, eating a small banana or a little pineapple caused real problems for me. The little bit of pineapple was on a day that I had experimented with a tiny dose of MB. The combination really was regrettable and won't be repeated. I had a terrible night.

Experimentation is fine. Don't believe everything you read. Listen to what your body is trying to tell you.

 

[mostlylurking]

What do you consider small dose?
Based on my research under 1mg hardly causes serotonin problems.

Georgie: There is one danger of MB - In high doses it is known to inhibit the enzyme MAO inhibitor. That enzyme is responsible for degrading serotonin. So if you inhibit that enzyme you will build up serotonin. I don’t think it’s been shown that it can on it’s own do that, but only in combination with some other SSRI drugs. Doses at which this happened are over 100mg in a single dose.

On the other hand hypothetically it can cause some fungal/bacterial imbalances which could maybe cause some irritation - and any irritation in the intestine is going to raise serotonin.
I think I didn't have the serotonin surge because I immediately felt calmer with less racing thoughts and was breathing better. That is dopaminergic effect as far as I know.


Yeah that correlates with my experiences as well. I just don't know why would MB cause that. Is it by being an antifungal/anti-viral/antibacterial and some detox process occurs or something else.

I will experiment.

I have been thiamine deficient for a long time. I'm sure I was thiamine deficient when I tried MB. This could have affected how I responded to MB also.

Inhibition of thiamine transport in baker's yeast by methylene blue - Cellular and Molecular Life Sciences

Methylene blue was found to inhibit thiamine transport competitively (Ki=0.63 μM) in baker's yeast. The dye was also effective in abolishing the growth inhibition ofSaccharomyces cerevisiae by pyrithiamine which is known to be taken up by a common transport system for thiamine in yeast cells. A...

link.springer.com

"A possible mechanism for the inhibition by methylene blue of the thiamine transport system in baker's yeast is discussed."

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Methylene Blue Dye-Induced Skin Necrosis in Immediate Breast Reconstruction: Evaluation and Management

"MBD is a cationic thiazine that causes toxic effects to tissues by producing oxides and free radicals, the causes of local inflammation. MBD also has vasoconstrictive effects by inhibiting the nitric oxide-mediated cyclic guanosine monophosphate pathway, which is responsible for smooth muscle relaxation and vasodilation [10]. Therefore, it can be used for refractory septic shock as a rescue therapy.
However, after intravenous injection of 1% MBD in patients with septic shock, skin necrosis and distal ischemia by extravasation have been reported [10].

Nevertheless, the vasoconstrictive effects of MBD can suppress systemic hypersensitivity, which is a complication of IBD. MBD has also been reported to cause local toxicity, including submucosal ulceration and necrosis of the colon, when it was used as a tattoo marker during laparoscopic colorectal surgery [11].

Three days after surgery, the stained skin was observed to have a lower temperature than the rest of the skin, and the desquamation of the skin occurred as a result of bullae formation."
_____________________________________________

Based on this study am I right to think that having some tissue damage would lead to all these negative side effects to MB perhaps and this is what I'm experiencing?
Also, almost immediately after ingesting MB I feel very noticeably colder - which this study also seem to point out.
@haidut @Hans