Would High Dosages Of DHT Downregulate 5-alpha-reductase?

[generationkfc]

I just told you it's not your 5ar that was downregulated, just your hpta

I see. How does one remedy that? Pardon the ignorance.

 

[generationkfc]

HPTA Restart - Increase My T

 

[PleaseDoo21]

Dude, you just got shutdown after taking proviron, period.

did he though? mesterolone has a 3% oral absorption rate, so you're getting such a minuscule amount of the active hormone when you take it, and even then it's already 5-alpha-reduced, so it isn't a substrate for aromatase, it isn't going to compete against other androgens for the AR because it's too busy being bound up to shbg. Most dudes who complain about sexual sides are just experiencing lowered E2.

 

[sladerunner69]

i abused proviron as an experiment and now i have a whole host of problems as a result of that - be careful

Would you elaborate on these problems?

hypothetically, If I were to take androstanolone (DHT) transdermally around 50-75mg daily, would that result in the downregulation of 5ar? I've heard small amounts DHT in itself can actually induce its own synthesis via the upregulation of 5ar, would the contrary result in suppression of the enzyme? The reason being, 5ar is a substrate for the majority of neurosteroids, I don't want to induce anxiety and depression.

Many of us with post finasteride syndrome (Very low 5-ar) have improved with high doses of androsterone. I think it takes a higher dose to stimulate the 5-ar to come back online.

 

[PleaseDoo21]

Many of us with post finasteride syndrome (Very low 5-ar) have improved with high doses of androsterone. I think it takes a higher dose to stimulate the 5-ar to come back online.

that's great. I read through the entirety of @bloom's old 5ar thread.
do you think using exogenous DHT would result in a downregulation of the enzyme? I'm worried about the isoenzyme expressed in the brain, isn't it 5ar2? correct me if i'm wrong. I just don't want to cause downregulation of 5ar dependent neurosteroids like allopregnanolone.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Yeah I didn't know anything about all this. Yes correct. Well proviron as I know it is DHT. T converts into DHT via 5AR. I've been off it for about 6-9 months. I am extra sensitive as I only took about 50 pills (twice a week for 6 mo). I am told something is wrong with my 5AR or my Androgen Receptors so I am basically trying to 'revive' them with herbal supplementation such as; forskolin, tribulus, creatine etc. Plan to cycle them for at least a year. They seem to be working.

A member on RPF said that forskoline is sourced primarily as an extract which contains toxic impurities,maybe lay off?Did Tribulus have effects on you,if so,care to elaborate?

 

[generationkfc]

Would you elaborate on these problems?

Wrongly attributed these problems to Proviron. It was a result of taking Milk Thistle seeds (was trying to detoxify my liver) in quite substantial doses. Milk Thistle, specifically the compound Silymarin blocks the Androgen Receptor from receiving DHT (which is 10 times more powerful than Testosterone). Problems include anhedonia, varicose veins (side effect of high estrogen), anxiety (obvious as that other guy pointed out) and depression. The anxiety and depression have subsided (disappeared) and what remains is the anhedonia and varicose veins. I'm doing one of potentially a few prolonged fasts (7 days, 14 days and 21 days and possibly 40 days and above) with the aim to reset the Androgen Receptors (and whatever else receptors that may have been overexpressed).

After which, if I am suffering from Low Testosterone (relative to MY pre-proviron level and not general population), I will just have to do my best with the many methods written to death online (Increase Testosterone Naturally: 32 Proven Tips For Men And Women).

S Testosterone 21.2 nmol/L (9.9 - 27.8 )
SHBG 23 nmol/L (17 - 56 )
S Albumin 43 g/L (36 - 47)
Free Test 555 pmol/L (170 - 670)

Many of us with post finasteride syndrome (Very low 5-ar) have improved with high doses of androsterone. I think it takes a higher dose to stimulate the 5-ar to come back online.

 

[generationkfc]

A member on RPF said that forskoline is sourced primarily as an extract which contains toxic impurities,maybe lay off?Did Tribulus have effects on you,if so,care to elaborate?

Haven't tried them yet. I am 5 days into an initial 7 day fast, after which I'll be refeeding with organic beef, chicken, fish, vegetables etc. for 2 days then embarking on a 14 day fast. I plan to supplement the forskolin and l-carnitine and the bulgarian tribulus during the refeeding period (but the bulgarian tribulus has yet to arrive, stupid corona virus).

 

[generationkfc]

Would you elaborate on these problems?



Many of us with post finasteride syndrome (Very low 5-ar) have improved with high doses of androsterone. I think it takes a higher dose to stimulate the 5-ar to come back online.

Can 5ar levels be tested?

 

[generationkfc]

did he though? mesterolone has a 3% oral absorption rate, so you're getting such a minuscule amount of the active hormone when you take it, and even then it's already 5-alpha-reduced, so it isn't a substrate for aromatase, it isn't going to compete against other androgens for the AR because it's too busy being bound up to shbg. Most dudes who complain about sexual sides are just experiencing lowered E2.

He might be right, he might be wrong. As you can see my Test Levels aren't exactly low, but they could be low relative to my pre-Proviron levels.

S Testosterone 21.2 nmol/L (9.9 - 27.8 )
SHBG 23 nmol/L (17 - 56 )
S Albumin 43 g/L (36 - 47)
Free Test 555 pmol/L (170 - 670)

 

[sladerunner69]

that's great. I read through the entirety of @bloom's old 5ar thread.
do you think using exogenous DHT would result in a downregulation of the enzyme? I'm worried about the isoenzyme expressed in the brain, isn't it 5ar2? correct me if i'm wrong. I just don't want to cause downregulation of 5ar dependent neurosteroids like allopregnanolone.

Well I'm right there with you on that one, friend. Except I already have likely severe downregulation of neurosteroids. I've had severe brainfog and numbness and low libido for nearly 10 years now thanks to finasteride. I'm not knowledgable on the 5-ar isoenzyme distinctions between type 1 & 2 etc, but what I will tell you what happened:

When I took Andro-hard (high dose androsterone gel) last fall for 4 weeks, I saw improvement in all areas except for the first week when I experienced increased nervousness. After a few weeks I just felt better. When I came off of it I was hoping to feel vastly improved but I was and wasn't. The good news was my intense anxiety, which I had learned to live with for years, had vanished. I also had slightly harder erections than when I began. The bad news was that I had worse brain fog and could not concentrate worth a damn. I had to quite school and my tutoring job it was so difficult to think. I always had too much difficulty concentrating but it was definitely worse. I'm not sure exactly why, but I think it may be decreased allopregnenelone. Perhaps my physical DHT increased but it decreased the 5-ar in the brain, as you said.

Since then I have improved gradually but am still in a rough spot. I take glycine, gelsenium, b vitamins, taurine, vitamin d, penicillin, and follow a mostly Peat diet. I take a herbal testosterone boosting rotation as detailed on SwoleSource (when Im not taking androgenic hormones). I drink coffee, probably too much each day. I started taking thyroid hormone in January and felt more mental energy. I started taking creatine in February and felt a boost in focus and drive (but also icnreasded headaches). I began experimenting with nicotine which gave me a big boost in drive and energy but caused bad headaches and nerve pain so I stopped. I began taking pregnenelone and 5a-dhp again in march which seemed to help my mood a lot and helped me feel closer to normal again than ever. Progesterone is similar, but seems to oppose androgens so I am careful when taking it. I think 5a-dhp might be best. I took super 4-andro (testosterone DHEA-based precursor) last month and felt very energetic, warmer, and more motivated than I can remember. Sometimes nervousness and depression increased, and it shrunk my balls. I came off a few days ago and am only taking a few drops of androsterone and pregnenelone. I have felt pretty tired the past couple days, and the brain fog/ head pressures are still very annoying.

I think that increasing 5-ar1 might lower 5-ar2 or something. I think it is best to take androgens with progesterone or increase DHT with allopregnenelone (and thdoc- another neursteroid produiced by 5-ar) because they seem to vie for attention of 5-ar. Just my speculation though.

 

[sladerunner69]

A member on RPF said that forskoline is sourced primarily as an extract which contains toxic impurities,maybe lay off?Did Tribulus have effects on you,if so,care to elaborate?

I have been taking it daily to increase DHT. I don't know that it has helped very much. I am concerned with toxic impurities though, where was this?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Well I'm right there with you on that one, friend. Except I already have likely severe downregulation of neurosteroids. I've had severe brainfog and numbness and low libido for nearly 10 years now thanks to finasteride. I'm not knowledgable on the 5-ar isoenzyme distinctions between type 1 & 2 etc, but what I will tell you what happened:

When I took Andro-hard (high dose androsterone gel) last fall for 4 weeks, I saw improvement in all areas except for the first week when I experienced increased nervousness. After a few weeks I just felt better. When I came off of it I was hoping to feel vastly improved but I was and wasn't. The good news was my intense anxiety, which I had learned to live with for years, had vanished. I also had slightly harder erections than when I began. The bad news was that I had worse brain fog and could not concentrate worth a damn. I had to quite school and my tutoring job it was so difficult to think. I always had too much difficulty concentrating but it was definitely worse. I'm not sure exactly why, but I think it may be decreased allopregnenelone. Perhaps my physical DHT increased but it decreased the 5-ar in the brain, as you said.

Since then I have improved gradually but am still in a rough spot. I take glycine, gelsenium, b vitamins, taurine, vitamin d, penicillin, and follow a mostly Peat diet. I take a herbal testosterone boosting rotation as detailed on SwoleSource (when Im not taking androgenic hormones). I drink coffee, probably too much each day. I started taking thyroid hormone in January and felt more mental energy. I started taking creatine in February and felt a boost in focus and drive (but also icnreasded headaches). I began experimenting with nicotine which gave me a big boost in drive and energy but caused bad headaches and nerve pain so I stopped. I began taking pregnenelone and 5a-dhp again in march which seemed to help my mood a lot and helped me feel closer to normal again than ever. Progesterone is similar, but seems to oppose androgens so I am careful when taking it. I think 5a-dhp might be best. I took super 4-andro (testosterone DHEA-based precursor) last month and felt very energetic, warmer, and more motivated than I can remember. Sometimes nervousness and depression increased, and it shrunk my balls. I came off a few days ago and am only taking a few drops of androsterone and pregnenelone. I have felt pretty tired the past couple days, and the brain fog/ head pressures are still very annoying.

I think that increasing 5-ar1 might lower 5-ar2 or something. I think it is best to take androgens with progesterone or increase DHT with allopregnenelone (and thdoc- another neursteroid produiced by 5-ar) because they seem to vie for attention of 5-ar. Just my speculation though.

care to share anecdotes and dosages in regard to your thyroid-adventure when you have the time pls.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I have been taking it daily to increase DHT. I don't know that it has helped very much. I am concerned with toxic impurities though, where was this?

member lokzo had intel on this one iirc.

 

[golder]

Haven't tried them yet. I am 5 days into an initial 7 day fast, after which I'll be refeeding with organic beef, chicken, fish, vegetables etc. for 2 days then embarking on a 14 day fast. I plan to supplement the forskolin and l-carnitine and the bulgarian tribulus during the refeeding period (but the bulgarian tribulus has yet to arrive, stupid corona virus).

Where did you get the Bulgarian tribulus? Thanks mate!