Won't Stop Shedding/thinning

[franc0]

Hi guys, I've been eating relatively 'Peat Friendly' for almost half a year now, My guidelines are as follows

- Liver once every 2 weeks, including pate every week
- litre of OJ and Milk everyday
- Spinach, mushrooms, eggs, chicken, Mussels, plenty veg and fruit, including daily raw carrot. several cups of coffee a day with sugar and milk, avoidance of PUFA (as best I can), Coconut oil, dark chocolate (for antioxidants and magnesium) tomatoes, rice, parsley, garlic, salt, etc
- my caloric intake has been 2000-2500 recently
- supplements include 70mg Niacin, calcium(600mg) + D3(125iU), vitamin e 100iU, aspirin (300mg), 1mg K2, 1-2 drops of methylene blue everyday, 500mg taurine, occasional 15mg of zinc, Progesterone along hairline every other day,unsure whether this will have a beneficial effect or not

I'm a student so the odd poor nights sleep and heavy night of drinking is kind of unavoidable, I appear to still be thinning to the point where I'm seriously considering having to just buzz it all off, my efforts seem to be getting me nowhere, which feels very disheartening to say the least. Recently my shedding has just gotten worse, does anyone have any advice, has anyone experienced some initial shedding then improved afterwards, is there anyone out there that's even seen regrowth via 'Peating'
Thanks in Advance

 

[raypeatclips]

What's your vitamin D level, have you had it checked? D3 at 125iu is very low, even by mainstream standards.

 

[franc0]

What's your vitamin D level, have you had it checked? D3 at 125iu is very low, even by mainstream standards.

Thanks, I had no idea

 

[johnwester130]

how much shedding is there ?

 

[franc0]

how much shedding is there ?

well it seems every time I shower, there's more hair left in my hands and when I run my hands through my hair, I always see strands fall out, as well as on my pillow etc, it could be the fact that i've been drinking more alcohol since coming to University, perhaps once a week of heavy drinking

 

[raypeatclips]

Thanks, I had no idea

The rest of your diet looks solid, if its working for you. The only thing that looks missing is vit D, which is very important. Try get a cheap vit D blood test at home to rule it out, so you can try other things, if nothing else.

 

[ddjd]

Take cyproheptadine. If shedding stops for 8 or so hours then you know it's a Serotonin issue. I have same problem

 

[Memento]

well it seems every time I shower, there's more hair left in my hands and when I run my hands through my hair, I always see strands fall out, as well as on my pillow etc, it could be the fact that i've been drinking more alcohol since coming to University, perhaps once a week of heavy drinking

I lost my hair in my teens and alcohol definately was one of the reasons, so try to limit at least those times you get absolutely shitfaced. Other than that, just dont worry about the hair and focus on managing stress, sleep, some excersise and generally just enjoy your life (while mostly sober). Good luck!

 

[ExD]

hello matey

i stopped my hair loss about six years in my early 20's ago but wasn't happy and insisted it grew all back haha.

some things i have learnt;

diet really isn't that important - yes, it's important to eat enough food and to eat food that doesn't make you sick, but the healthier you get the less this will be an issue. eventually, you will have the intuition to know what to and what not to do.

people talk about stress hormones like they are the devil but they are not. sometimes it's better to be be ramped up on stress and out living life than to be bogged down with food and stuck obsessing over that one night's drinking. i had good regrowth during drug binges where i would eat all sorts of ***t i knew was bad for me, simply cuz i'd gotten to the point where thinking about what i could/could not eat was causing my more psychological worry than actually eating it

i would say that avoiding gluten and pufa is important, but again i was binging on these during hard times and while they certainly don't help regrowth, they didn't affect shedding/loss at all that i can see, at least not in the way people seem to go on about. those with more sensitive nervous systems will probably need to be more careful but if you get a grip on your general disposition, a few slip ups will only serve to encourage you to do better and better

if you're getting fibre, protein, carbs and good fats in, don't get too hungup on the details imo.

posture - this is the number one defining factor in most mpb cases imo. sometimes it's mild, sometimes it's not. in my case, the outer ball of my left foot was very slightly atrophied (from bag carrying/cliff diving/early trauma scoliosis) and while no one would have noticed but me, it literally made my entire frame lopsided. the irony is people always complimented my posture as near perfect, but when i corrected this (via dance/martial arts/generally groping the ground at every opportunity) not only did my frame start to re-align but a lot of emotional bull**** i'd been repressing started squirting out of everywhere and i generally felt pretty fantastic / unshakeable.

posture reflects psychology and you need to be grounded, especially if you're worried about stress hormones (that's like worrying about worrying xD), and believe me, in 99% of cases someone with hair loss will have less than perfect posture, but it can be corrected with nothing but patience and mindfulness.

another important point is to learn to rest your tongue on the soft palate of your mouth, stretching it like you would any muscle in yoga, consistently on a daily basis. the oddest thing happened in that one day in work, i found my tongue resting there naturally, it was so bizarre, but when researching it i actually discovered this is VITAL for perfect posture. you literally cannot have an aligned spine if your tongue isn't helping to support your atlantoaxial joint. it amazed me that in attempting to fix my posture, my body began doing this subconsciously. eventually, you will be able to stretch your tongue all the way up to your nasal passages and avoid having it in the mouth at all, unless you're eating or talking

topicals - generally speaking, i don't think these things work well and if they do, they don't do enough to warrant the time/investment. i tried most everything (i first registered on this forum like 6 ears ago and that was after 5 years of constant research since my thinning started at 18 so i'd tried everything short of burning my scalp with open flame xD) but the one thing i will praise is magnesium chloride. not only does this have a noticeable effect on my mood, i think it is probably the reason i became so aware of my posture problems.

when you saturate your body with magnesium it will begin to decalify tissues and relax muscles that are chronically under stress. your body has no real choice but to relax, and as you relax, you will naturally seek balance. this loosens the fascia and ultimately provides breathing room for the galea, which is generally tight and fibrotic and unable to nourish hair on the top of the head. mag baths, transdermal sprays, and mega doses of oral tablets short term can do amazing things for your mind and eventually your body

-edit- vinegar might also be useful. i actually wash my head in 8% distilled vinegar because it's cheap, it doesn't smell and it helps tenderize tough tissue while breaking up sebum and calcium deposits around hair, which feed bacteria and encourage inflammation. i don't actually know whether this has helped towards the regrowth i noticed in last six weeks but i figured i'd mention it. i think distilled is probably better than acv because the vitamins in acv will leave your head sticky and won't do much to nourish your noggin.

massage - imo the previous points will stop hair loss but regrowing it is another matter. in order to regrow you not only need to correct posture and allow clean flow of energy up and down your body, but you need to undo the years of damage caused by it - you need to literally break up the fibrotic tissue that is producing inflammatory proteins that leads to excess sebum, bacteria, and everything we think is the cause of mpb. deep tissue massage about 20-30mins x2 a day for a year is the bare minimum imo, and one of the reasons most people won't see results, because it's a massive investment most of us underestimate, but it does work

i had good regrowth on back and i was getting regrowth on front/hairline until i got hit with a hat trick of life drama - parent died, evicted, two cars blew up and my only coping strategy was drug and sex abuse, which made me too lethargic to apply any of this for the last year - during which time all i maintained was good posture, and i lost no ground except what massage had provided me

gut health - this is tricky because i'm naturally athletic and have rarely had gut issues, but i am far from having a healthy gut. while we can try to manipulate this sort of thing via diet, imo that is mostly throwing fuel on the fire if you don't master other things first. good posture, exercise, proper breathing and a calm will help heal a gut faster than stuffing it full of things it's already having a hard time dealing with. raising your body temperature via exercise/controlled breathing will raise cortisol, but this will help cellular respiration and co2 production, helping to oxygenate the body and ramp up body temperature, and i think a healthy body temperature (very slightly above average) is the best indicator of gut health. fermented foods etc probably help a lot because they are easier to digest and while ray peat says the gut should be sterile, i disagree - the same way i disagree with his theory on prolactin and balding. which brings us to;

sex - i had very unhealthy approaches to sex and still do to some extent, but a lot of it has simply dissipated as i got other stuff under control. while i admit prolactin might be involved in shedding, i do not think it is involved in actual chronic hair loss as much as people expect. chronic masturbation on the other hand can actually be detrimental simply because it encourages atrophy of muscles in and around the hips that are not only essential for great sex, but equally essential for balance and posture.

light - i'd say getting adequate sunlight is essential but honestly, i live in ireland and can't comment lol. i feel a lot better everywhere when i happen across it and on that alone, without getting into my laymen understanding of vitamin d, speaks for itself. if you live somewhere sunny, make the most of it and walk around nekkied tbh :P

i've finally got my life back under some semblance of control and have started reapplying everything i know worked in the past. normally i would say it takes 4-6months to start seeing real results but i have already started noticing regrowth on my hairline in the exact same place i noticed it prior to copping out due to life drama last year. i think this is because i know it's possible, i had already done a lot of work and despite everything, was working to get what i wanted, just in less than optimal ways.

the main points are to focus on posture because it deals with two major issues at once - stress and blood flow. if you're mindful of your posture you will naturally lower stress hormones (meditation has proven this to be the case) and by improving posture, we naturally decalcify and improve blood flow anyway

eat enough to be happy and healthy but don't let diet become an obsession that begins undermining your effort and generally make an effort to be active and energetic, without exhausting yourself.

gl gl :P

 

[ddjd]

I lost my hair in my teens and alcohol definately was one of the reasons, so try to limit at least those times you get absolutely shitfaced. Other than that, just dont worry about the hair and focus on managing stress, sleep, some excersise and generally just enjoy your life (while mostly sober). Good luck!

Alcohol depletes vitamin A in huge amounts and vit A is of course vital to thyroid function so makes sense

 

[Wagner83]

How long have you been doing the methylene blue?

 

[inmyhead]

I lost my hair in my teens and alcohol definately was one of the reasons, so try to limit at least those times you get absolutely shitfaced. Other than that, just dont worry about the hair and focus on managing stress, sleep, some excersise and generally just enjoy your life (while mostly sober). Good luck!

Say that to homeless people who drink all the time but have full heads of hair. bull**** theory

 

[Memento]

Not a theory, if you have shitty metabolism alcohol doesn't really help.

 

[franc0]

Take cyproheptadine. If shedding stops for 8 or so hours then you know it's a Serotonin issue. I have same problem

Hey I've taken cyproheptadine a few times before, the stuff makes me feel so tired and I gain weight pretty fast on it too, I'm a bit disinclined considering I have to study and feeling sluggish all the time would make life quite hard.

 

[franc0]

How long have you been doing the methylene blue?

MB for about 2 months now, pretty sure i've noticed a nootropic effect,
mb + a HENCH coffee is a good start to the day

 

[theLaw]

@franc0

What is your height and weight?

Also, how active are you?

 

[franc0]

hello matey

i stopped my hair loss about six years in my early 20's ago but wasn't happy and insisted it grew all back haha.

some things i have learnt;

diet really isn't that important - yes, it's important to eat enough food and to eat food that doesn't make you sick, but the healthier you get the less this will be an issue. eventually, you will have the intuition to know what to and what not to do.

people talk about stress hormones like they are the devil but they are not. sometimes it's better to be be ramped up on stress and out living life than to be bogged down with food and stuck obsessing over that one night's drinking. i had good regrowth during drug binges where i would eat all sorts of ***t i knew was bad for me, simply cuz i'd gotten to the point where thinking about what i could/could not eat was causing my more psychological worry than actually eating it

i would say that avoiding gluten and pufa is important, but again i was binging on these during hard times and while they certainly don't help regrowth, they didn't affect shedding/loss at all that i can see, at least not in the way people seem to go on about. those with more sensitive nervous systems will probably need to be more careful but if you get a grip on your general disposition, a few slip ups will only serve to encourage you to do better and better

if you're getting fibre, protein, carbs and good fats in, don't get too hungup on the details imo.

posture - this is the number one defining factor in most mpb cases imo. sometimes it's mild, sometimes it's not. in my case, the outer ball of my left foot was very slightly atrophied (from bag carrying/cliff diving/early trauma scoliosis) and while no one would have noticed but me, it literally made my entire frame lopsided. the irony is people always complimented my posture as near perfect, but when i corrected this (via dance/martial arts/generally groping the ground at every opportunity) not only did my frame start to re-align but a lot of emotional bull**** i'd been repressing started squirting out of everywhere and i generally felt pretty fantastic / unshakeable.

posture reflects psychology and you need to be grounded, especially if you're worried about stress hormones (that's like worrying about worrying xD), and believe me, in 99% of cases someone with hair loss will have less than perfect posture, but it can be corrected with nothing but patience and mindfulness.

another important point is to learn to rest your tongue on the soft palate of your mouth, stretching it like you would any muscle in yoga, consistently on a daily basis. the oddest thing happened in that one day in work, i found my tongue resting there naturally, it was so bizarre, but when researching it i actually discovered this is VITAL for perfect posture. you literally cannot have an aligned spine if your tongue isn't helping to support your atlantoaxial joint. it amazed me that in attempting to fix my posture, my body began doing this subconsciously. eventually, you will be able to stretch your tongue all the way up to your nasal passages and avoid having it in the mouth at all, unless you're eating or talking

topicals - generally speaking, i don't think these things work well and if they do, they don't do enough to warrant the time/investment. i tried most everything (i first registered on this forum like 6 ears ago and that was after 5 years of constant research since my thinning started at 18 so i'd tried everything short of burning my scalp with open flame xD) but the one thing i will praise is magnesium chloride. not only does this have a noticeable effect on my mood, i think it is probably the reason i became so aware of my posture problems.

when you saturate your body with magnesium it will begin to decalify tissues and relax muscles that are chronically under stress. your body has no real choice but to relax, and as you relax, you will naturally seek balance. this loosens the fascia and ultimately provides breathing room for the galea, which is generally tight and fibrotic and unable to nourish hair on the top of the head. mag baths, transdermal sprays, and mega doses of oral tablets short term can do amazing things for your mind and eventually your body

-edit- vinegar might also be useful. i actually wash my head in 8% distilled vinegar because it's cheap, it doesn't smell and it helps tenderize tough tissue while breaking up sebum and calcium deposits around hair, which feed bacteria and encourage inflammation. i don't actually know whether this has helped towards the regrowth i noticed in last six weeks but i figured i'd mention it. i think distilled is probably better than acv because the vitamins in acv will leave your head sticky and won't do much to nourish your noggin.

massage - imo the previous points will stop hair loss but regrowing it is another matter. in order to regrow you not only need to correct posture and allow clean flow of energy up and down your body, but you need to undo the years of damage caused by it - you need to literally break up the fibrotic tissue that is producing inflammatory proteins that leads to excess sebum, bacteria, and everything we think is the cause of mpb. deep tissue massage about 20-30mins x2 a day for a year is the bare minimum imo, and one of the reasons most people won't see results, because it's a massive investment most of us underestimate, but it does work

i had good regrowth on back and i was getting regrowth on front/hairline until i got hit with a hat trick of life drama - parent died, evicted, two cars blew up and my only coping strategy was drug and sex abuse, which made me too lethargic to apply any of this for the last year - during which time all i maintained was good posture, and i lost no ground except what massage had provided me

gut health - this is tricky because i'm naturally athletic and have rarely had gut issues, but i am far from having a healthy gut. while we can try to manipulate this sort of thing via diet, imo that is mostly throwing fuel on the fire if you don't master other things first. good posture, exercise, proper breathing and a calm will help heal a gut faster than stuffing it full of things it's already having a hard time dealing with. raising your body temperature via exercise/controlled breathing will raise cortisol, but this will help cellular respiration and co2 production, helping to oxygenate the body and ramp up body temperature, and i think a healthy body temperature (very slightly above average) is the best indicator of gut health. fermented foods etc probably help a lot because they are easier to digest and while ray peat says the gut should be sterile, i disagree - the same way i disagree with his theory on prolactin and balding. which brings us to;

sex - i had very unhealthy approaches to sex and still do to some extent, but a lot of it has simply dissipated as i got other stuff under control. while i admit prolactin might be involved in shedding, i do not think it is involved in actual chronic hair loss as much as people expect. chronic masturbation on the other hand can actually be detrimental simply because it encourages atrophy of muscles in and around the hips that are not only essential for great sex, but equally essential for balance and posture.

light - i'd say getting adequate sunlight is essential but honestly, i live in ireland and can't comment lol. i feel a lot better everywhere when i happen across it and on that alone, without getting into my laymen understanding of vitamin d, speaks for itself. if you live somewhere sunny, make the most of it and walk around nekkied tbh :P

i've finally got my life back under some semblance of control and have started reapplying everything i know worked in the past. normally i would say it takes 4-6months to start seeing real results but i have already started noticing regrowth on my hairline in the exact same place i noticed it prior to copping out due to life drama last year. i think this is because i know it's possible, i had already done a lot of work and despite everything, was working to get what i wanted, just in less than optimal ways.

the main points are to focus on posture because it deals with two major issues at once - stress and blood flow. if you're mindful of your posture you will naturally lower stress hormones (meditation has proven this to be the case) and by improving posture, we naturally decalcify and improve blood flow anyway

eat enough to be happy and healthy but don't let diet become an obsession that begins undermining your effort and generally make an effort to be active and energetic, without exhausting yourself.

gl gl :P

hey man, thanks for taking the time to offer me your advice, do you have any resources I could use for fixing my posture, do you think something like yoga would be sufficient?
I think bloodflow is crucial in hair loss, you can only go so far in terms of diet towards supporting healthy metabolism, but sometimes, after years of malfunction it's necessary to intervene in more drastic ways and have to take supplements, lifestyle changes, etc. Did you incorporate any supplements?

thanks for the advice!

 

[franc0]

@franc0

What is your height and weight?

Also, how active are you?

I'm about 5"10, between 145-150lbs
recently since starting university I haven't been very active at all, have always sort of lived a fairly sedentary life, the past year or 2 I took up walking more often, as well as some jogging,
I do some stretches and strength exercises a few times a week tho

 

[theLaw]

I'm about 5"10, between 145-150lbs
recently since starting university I haven't been very active at all, have always sort of lived a fairly sedentary life, the past year or 2 I took up walking more often, as well as some jogging,
I do some stretches and strength exercises a few times a week tho

You sound pretty thin, so I would say that your calories are too low.

2000-2500 is basically starving yourself, and would be what most woman here intake per day. Shoot for 3500+ each day for a week, and see if you feel better.

Without enough fuel, your body will start to prioritize where to use energy, and cause low-T pretty quickly in males.

Also, your vitamin D sup is basically non-existent (Idealabs uses 1000iu per dose).

Based on your first post, it sounds like your body is in a very stressed state, so alcohol is probably a bad idea until you get your health in order.

Finally, here's a list of links that might help you moving forward:

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
(this is an excellent primer on Dr. Peat's work that's easy to understand)

Optimal diet for increasing lifespan
(big picture)

Becoming A Man With Peat And Haidut
(this guy is close to your age and made incredible improvements just using the basic Peat suggestions)

Solving the big 3:

+ Clean the Liver

Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

High Protein Diet Prevents & Reverses Fatty Liver Disease (steatosis)

+ Fix Digestive Issues

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

Ray Peat Potato Protein Soup (RPPPS)

Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

+ Reduce PUFA in Tissues down to almost nothing

PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

Haidut's Summary Of PUFA

VoS uncoupling thread

Cheers!

Getting Ripped With Dr Peat

 

[franc0]

You sound pretty thin, so I would say that your calories are too low.

2000-2500 is basically starving yourself, and would be what most woman here intake per day. Shoot for 3500+ each day for a week, and see if you feel better.

Without enough fuel, your body will start to prioritize where to use energy, and cause low-T pretty quickly in males.

Also, your vitamin D sup is basically non-existent (Idealabs uses 1000iu per dose).

Based on your first post, it sounds like your body is in a very stressed state, so alcohol is probably a bad idea until you get your health in order.

Finally, here's a list of links that might help you moving forward:

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
(this is an excellent primer on Dr. Peat's work that's easy to understand)

Optimal diet for increasing lifespan
(big picture)

Becoming A Man With Peat And Haidut
(this guy is close to your age and made incredible improvements just using the basic Peat suggestions)

Solving the big 3:

+ Clean the Liver

Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

High Protein Diet Prevents & Reverses Fatty Liver Disease (steatosis)

+ Fix Digestive Issues

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

Ray Peat Potato Protein Soup (RPPPS)

Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

+ Reduce PUFA in Tissues down to almost nothing

PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

Haidut's Summary Of PUFA

VoS uncoupling thread

Cheers!

Getting Ripped With Dr Peat

Thanks man!