Without good fruit available would you eat starches?

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@MidBicep There is no good ripe fruit for me where I live. The fruit that is available ripe, I am allergic to. There is one good orange juice brand, but it's expensive. So I've been eating lots of homemade tortillas lately from nixtamalized masa harina and feeling great. It's especially good when you can't drink milk, because it has the same amount of calcium as milk. [edit: oh, I see you can eat cheese, but it also gives some niacin. I can't drink quarts of milk either, so I usually have some meat or fish with my tortillas for nutrients]


Ray Peat: "...the chinese and central and south americans many years ago, the chinese probably 3000 years ago, discovered that if you cook a grain in lye or lime, oxidized calcium compound or potassium hydroxide from ashes of vegetation, those caustic alkalis digest the grain, destroy the things that make it indigestable, turn the potentially toxic balance of amino acids that could create pellagra if you had a corn based diet for example, convert those into vitamins so that tortillas are very rich as a source of calcium and niacin and very easy to digest because the corn and the proteins are partially digested already. So nixtamalized corn, the kind used in hominy tamales and tortillas, is not like any of the other grain starches."
Boris am I missing something? My masa harina has 2% calcium per 1/4 cup while my milk has 30% for 1 cup?
 

boris

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@Rinse & rePeat hm, I didn't do the math, but that sounds about right for the official daily requirement. The difference should come from the cup measurement (measuring volume).

Both should have something around 130mg of calcium per 100g :)
 
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My bag says 1 cup would be 8%
 

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@Rinse & rePeat hm, I didn't do the math, but that sounds about right for the official daily requirement. The difference should come from the cup measurement (measuring volume).

Both should have something around 130mg of calcium per 100g :)
All your masa talk made my hungry for a taco, and it was good! Mmmm....
 
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Hm, so that would be about half the calcium content of milk. No idea, maybe it differs from brand to brand.


:lol:
More like 1/3 the amount and that would have to be 4 tortillas worth. My masa tortillas say 6% for 1 tortilla.
 

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@Rinse & rePeat hm, I didn't do the math, but that sounds about right for the official daily requirement. The difference should come from the cup measurement (measuring volume).

Both should have something around 130mg of calcium per 100g :)
I was just thinking that either you have a better brand of masa than me, and I would love to know what it is, or you aren't getting as much calcium as you think you are.
 

boris

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I was just thinking that either you have a better brand of masa than me, and I would love to know what it is, or you aren't getting as much calcium as you think you are.
Oh my bag doesn't list anything, it's a brand that makes the masa harina freshly here and sells it in bulk over the internet. I took the numbers from google. And I also remember Peat saying you would get roughly the same amount of calcium when you eat a kilo of tortillas as drinking a quart of milk.

But any masa calcium is a bonus for me anyways :): I always get over 2 grams from cheese and milk.
 
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Oh my bag doesn't list anything, it's a brand that makes the masa harina freshly here and sells it in bulk over the internet. I took the numbers from google. And I also remember Peat saying you would get roughly the same amount of calcium when you eat a kilo of tortillas as drinking a quart of milk.

But any masa calcium is a bonus for me anyways :): I always get over 2 grams from cheese and milk.

I wonder if there is a better masa out there than mine or if somehow the masa is a more usable calcium then?
 

Abba

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How often has anyone eaten 1 kilo in a day?
Perhaps its more like avoiding 'bad' foods.
 

Brandin

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I'm in a situation where milk is still not an option for my nutrition, so I rely on Greek yogurt and cheese, which have nowhere near the micronutrients of milk but they get the job done.
I used to squeeze over 1kg of oranges into juice but lately everything at the supermarket is green and sour. Watermelons are also not ripe yet. So I'm basically out of fruit.
I've worked around the liquids with coffee and sugared cola, but the nutrition of those is nowhere near OJ.
Now I've experimented in the past with potatoes and they are a bad food for me and all around troublesome, from preparation to digestion.
So the question is, would you rather have insufficient daily micronutrient intakes yet feel good and possibly get a deficiency down the line (or maybe not if you're not consuming starches and antinutrients), or would you rather risk feeling worse and have a cronometer page that looks good on paper?
I'm in the first category.
why is milk not an option? I just add 100 grams of white sugar in 1 liter 0.5% milk ( for a total of 400 grams white sugar per day. I get extreme amounts of vitamins and minerals from other food scources so the lack thereoff in the sugar is no problemo haha. If your eating extremely much carbs per day then I recommend taking b1.
 

youngsinatra

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I enjoy organic apple sauce very much lately - I find it very addicting almost. Canned peaches are good too in my experience. I do not tolerate most whole fruits, but these seem tolerable. Nonetheless I still eat most of my carbohydrate calories from basmati rice. I find that starches are better for replenishing muscle glycogen, while fruits are better for restoring liver glycogen. I aim for 400g glucose for muscle glycogen and 120g fructose for liver glycogen, because that's what muscles and liver can store in one day approximately.
 
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I enjoy organic apple sauce very much lately - I find it very addicting almost. Canned peaches are good too in my experience. I do not tolerate most whole fruits, but these seem tolerable. Nonetheless I still eat most of my carbohydrate calories from basmati rice. I find that starches are better for replenishing muscle glycogen, while fruits are better for restoring liver glycogen. I aim for 400g glucose for muscle glycogen and 120g fructose for liver glycogen, because that's what muscles and liver can store in one day approximately.

I just posted my easy instructions on how to make your own apple sauce on page 4 of my Easy Peaty Fruits & Vegetables thread yesterday! SO MUCH better than store bought!

 

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Abba

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No not at all. Would does it do to some people?
@ecstatichamster's answer at They Are Making Guar Gum Into A Good Thing

Dr. Peat has always cautioned against gums.
There are studies like this but now the gums are highly profitable and being politicized.
Dietary Guar Gum and Pectin Stimulate Intestinal Microbial Polyamine Synthesis in Rats
That study shows it raises polyamines which in excess are probably carcinogens.
Look at this typical misleading piece in mainstream “health” reporting:
Is Guar Gum Healthy or Unhealthy? The Surprising Truth
Digestive Health
Because guar gum is high in fiber, it may support the health of your digestive system.
One study found that it helped relieve constipation by speeding up movement through the intestinal tract. Guar gum consumption was also associated with improvements in stool texture and bowel movement frequency (4).
Additionally, it may act as a prebiotic by promoting the growth of good bacteria and reducing the growth of harmful bacteria in the gut.
In a 2012 study, 60 participants with constipation who received a supplement containing guar gum experienced a significant decrease in concentrations of harmful bacteria in their digestive tracts (5).
Thanks to its ability to promote digestive health, it may also aid in the treatment of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS).
A recent 6-week study followed 68 participants with IBS. It found that guar gum improved IBS symptoms, and in some patients it also reduced bloating while increasing stool frequency (6).
Blood Sugar
Studies show that guar gum may be effective at lowering blood sugar.
This is because it is a type of soluble fiber, which can slow the absorption of sugar and lead to a reduction in blood sugar levels (7).
In one study, people with diabetes were given guar gum four times per day over a six-week period. The study found that guar gum led to a significant decrease in blood sugar and a 20% drop in LDL cholesterol (8).
Another study had similar findings, showing that consuming guar gum significantly improved blood sugar control in 11 participants with type 2 diabetes (9).
Blood Cholesterol
Soluble fibers such as guar gum have been shown to have a cholesterol-lowering effect.
Fiber binds to bile acids in your body, causing them to be excreted and decreasing the amount of bile acids in circulation. This forces the liver to use up cholesterol to produce more bile acids, leading to a decrease in cholesterol levels (10).
One study had 19 obese people with diabetes take a daily supplement containing 15 grams of guar gum. They found that it led to lower levels of total blood cholesterol, as well as lower LDL cholesterol, compared to a placebo (11).
An animal study found similar results, showing that rats fed guar gum had reduced blood cholesterol levels, in addition to increased levels of HDL cholesterol (12).
Weight Maintenance
Some studies have found that guar gum could help with weight loss and appetite control.
In general, fiber moves through the body undigested and may help promote satiety while reducing appetite (13).
In fact, one study showed that eating an additional 14 grams of fiber per day may lead to a 10% decrease in calories consumed (14).
Guar gum, in particular, may be effective at reducing appetite and decreasing calorie intake.
A 2015 review of three studies concluded that guar gum improved satiety and reduced the number of calories consumed from snacking throughout the day (15).
Another study looked at the effects of guar gum on weight loss in women. They found that 15 grams of guar gum per day helped women lose 5.5 pounds (2.5 kg) more than those who took a placebo (16).
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
@ecstatichamster's answer at They Are Making Guar Gum Into A Good Thing

Dr. Peat has always cautioned against gums.
There are studies like this but now the gums are highly profitable and being politicized.
Dietary Guar Gum and Pectin Stimulate Intestinal Microbial Polyamine Synthesis in Rats
That study shows it raises polyamines which in excess are probably carcinogens.
Look at this typical misleading piece in mainstream “health” reporting:
Is Guar Gum Healthy or Unhealthy? The Surprising Truth
Digestive Health
Because guar gum is high in fiber, it may support the health of your digestive system.
One study found that it helped relieve constipation by speeding up movement through the intestinal tract. Guar gum consumption was also associated with improvements in stool texture and bowel movement frequency (4).
Additionally, it may act as a prebiotic by promoting the growth of good bacteria and reducing the growth of harmful bacteria in the gut.
In a 2012 study, 60 participants with constipation who received a supplement containing guar gum experienced a significant decrease in concentrations of harmful bacteria in their digestive tracts (5).
Thanks to its ability to promote digestive health, it may also aid in the treatment of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS).
A recent 6-week study followed 68 participants with IBS. It found that guar gum improved IBS symptoms, and in some patients it also reduced bloating while increasing stool frequency (6).
Blood Sugar
Studies show that guar gum may be effective at lowering blood sugar.
This is because it is a type of soluble fiber, which can slow the absorption of sugar and lead to a reduction in blood sugar levels (7).
In one study, people with diabetes were given guar gum four times per day over a six-week period. The study found that guar gum led to a significant decrease in blood sugar and a 20% drop in LDL cholesterol (8).
Another study had similar findings, showing that consuming guar gum significantly improved blood sugar control in 11 participants with type 2 diabetes (9).
Blood Cholesterol
Soluble fibers such as guar gum have been shown to have a cholesterol-lowering effect.
Fiber binds to bile acids in your body, causing them to be excreted and decreasing the amount of bile acids in circulation. This forces the liver to use up cholesterol to produce more bile acids, leading to a decrease in cholesterol levels (10).
One study had 19 obese people with diabetes take a daily supplement containing 15 grams of guar gum. They found that it led to lower levels of total blood cholesterol, as well as lower LDL cholesterol, compared to a placebo (11).
An animal study found similar results, showing that rats fed guar gum had reduced blood cholesterol levels, in addition to increased levels of HDL cholesterol (12).
Weight Maintenance
Some studies have found that guar gum could help with weight loss and appetite control.
In general, fiber moves through the body undigested and may help promote satiety while reducing appetite (13).
In fact, one study showed that eating an additional 14 grams of fiber per day may lead to a 10% decrease in calories consumed (14).
Guar gum, in particular, may be effective at reducing appetite and decreasing calorie intake.
A 2015 review of three studies concluded that guar gum improved satiety and reduced the number of calories consumed from snacking throughout the day (15).
Another study looked at the effects of guar gum on weight loss in women. They found that 15 grams of guar gum per day helped women lose 5.5 pounds (2.5 kg) more than those who took a placebo (16).

Thanks for all that good info. I knew Peat speaks out against it, but that is the only masa tortilla I have found without corn in it too. Fortunately for me I only have one tortillas every week or two, and I have digestion made of steel. I am gonna have to figure out how soon how to make masa tortilla that aren't dry and stiff.
 

清貴杉山

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Jul 19, 2020
Messages
332
@MidBicep There is no good ripe fruit for me where I live. The fruit that is available ripe, I am allergic to. There is one good orange juice brand, but it's expensive. So I've been eating lots of homemade tortillas lately from nixtamalized masa harina and feeling great. It's especially good when you can't drink milk, because it has the same amount of calcium as milk. [edit: oh, I see you can eat cheese, but it also gives some niacin. I can't drink quarts of milk either, so I usually have some meat or fish with my tortillas for nutrients]


Ray Peat: "...the chinese and central and south americans many years ago, the chinese probably 3000 years ago, discovered that if you cook a grain in lye or lime, oxidized calcium compound or potassium hydroxide from ashes of vegetation, those caustic alkalis digest the grain, destroy the things that make it indigestable, turn the potentially toxic balance of amino acids that could create pellagra if you had a corn based diet for example, convert those into vitamins so that tortillas are very rich as a source of calcium and niacin and very easy to digest because the corn and the proteins are partially digested already. So nixtamalized corn, the kind used in hominy tamales and tortillas, is not like any of the other grain starches."
so nixtamialized corn is ok to eat regularly as a energy booster?i cant get enough calories from fruit tbh and i love tortillas
 

boris

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so nixtamialized corn is ok to eat regularly as a energy booster?i cant get enough calories from fruit tbh and i love tortillas

I don‘t eat it so often anymore because I get tooth aches from any starch after a while, but yes, it‘s fine to eat regularly, especially with some cheese or butter. The nixtamalization process makes it pretty nutritious.
 

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