Winstrol

RisingSun

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Why the aversion to needles? Much safer, especially if you live with females - too many horror stories of T gel accidentally brushing up on sister/daughter/wife and causing massive hormonal issues.
And there is a big difference between injection and topical; absorption, UAC, cMAX, etc.
I get you’re a “professional” but best to leave this to the experts. There’s a reason why T injections have been a mainstay in bodybuilding circles for the last 50 years. Simple, safe, effective.

You are worried about accidentally brushing your scrotum up on your sister/daughter?

I’ll let you experts discuss between each other
 

Beefcake

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You are worried about accidentally brushing your scrotum up on your sister/daughter?

I’ll let you experts discuss between each other

Probably more side effects to dmso alone than intramusclar injection with needles @olive said im injections been used for years and years with a high safety profile. DMSO not so common.
 

Beefcake

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Think the optimal first time protocol for a beginner would be something like this
Testosterone cypionate 500mg per week.
HCG 250-500 IU twice a week (this will perserve your testicle function while on the cycle.
And a low dose exemestane 5-10mg ED or EOD. Some people tend to get 0 estrogen very fast and experience low estrogen symptoms even with whats considered moderate dose of exemestane. This usually happens to me. I’d rather start low and if I feel high E symptoms you can always take a little bit more.

Doing this for 12 weeks with a good exercise program and diet should give you some pretty wicked first time results. And I’d expect the PCT would be a breeze since the cycle been stacked with HCG. Just keep taking exemestane during PCT nothing else is needed.
 

Beefcake

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Enlighten me on what these are

Pregnancy and breast-feeding: There is not enough reliable information about the safety of taking DMSO if you are pregnant or breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.

Diabetes: There are reports that topical use of DMSO can change how insulin works in the body. If you use insulin to treat diabetes and also use DMSO, monitor your blood sugar closely. Insulin doses may need to be adjusted.

Certain blood disorders. Injecting DMSO intravenously (by IV) might cause red blood cells to break down. This might be a problem for people with certain blood disorders. DMSO might make these conditions worse.

Liver problems: DMSO might harm the liver. If you have liver conditions and use DMSO, be sure to get liver function tests every 6 months.

Kidney problems: DMSO might harm the kidneys. Kidney function tests are recommended every 6 months if you use DMSO and have a kidney condition.

then you have IM needles basically no side effects
 

RisingSun

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Pregnancy and breast-feeding: There is not enough reliable information about the safety of taking DMSO if you are pregnant or breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.

Diabetes: There are reports that topical use of DMSO can change how insulin works in the body. If you use insulin to treat diabetes and also use DMSO, monitor your blood sugar closely. Insulin doses may need to be adjusted.

Certain blood disorders. Injecting DMSO intravenously (by IV) might cause red blood cells to break down. This might be a problem for people with certain blood disorders. DMSO might make these conditions worse.

Liver problems: DMSO might harm the liver. If you have liver conditions and use DMSO, be sure to get liver function tests every 6 months.

Kidney problems: DMSO might harm the kidneys. Kidney function tests are recommended every 6 months if you use DMSO and have a kidney condition.

then you have IM needles basically no side effects

Liver:
The effects of dimethyl sulfoxide on liver damage caused by ischemia-reperfusion. - PubMed - NCBI


Kidneys
Delayed DMSO administration protects the kidney from mercuric chloride-induced injury. - PubMed - NCBI

Insulin
Dimethyl sulfoxide inhibits spontaneous diabetes and autoimmune recurrence in non-obese diabetic mice by inducing differentiation of regulatory T cells - ScienceDirect


You were saying?
 
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Ray said in his most recent interview too much testosterone is bad and has reverse effect. Why not just take a few mgs like he recommends?
 

Beefcake

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Ray said in his most recent interview too much testosterone is bad and has reverse effect. Why not just take a few mgs like he recommends?

No one cares about the bad effects on health of testosterone if your trying to build muscle. I inject 500mg per week for 12 weeks and you rub a couple of mg on your testicles with dmso. We both hit the gym and then we can compare results after we are done. Now who do you think will have most muscle gains? Are you people stupid? People who want to inject steroids into their bodies dont give a crap about the health risks they want muscle and you cant get that muscle without superhuman t-levels. Sure it might be bad for liver and your heart and the brain and it might be cancerous but people don't care. It's like telling a smoker its bad to smoke. Smoking is even worse because it has 0 positive effects and pretty sure it does cause lung cancer if you look at statistics. But anyway there's probably gonna be some dude here now saying smoking is peaty.
 
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No one cares about the bad effects on health of testosterone if your trying to build muscle. I inject 500mg per week for 12 weeks and you rub a couple of mg on your testicles with dmso. We both hit the gym and then we can compare results after we are done. Now who do you think will have most muscle gains? Are you people stupid? People who want to inject steroids into their bodies dont give a crap about the health risks they want muscle and you cant get that muscle without superhuman t-levels. Sure it might be bad for liver and your heart and the brain and it might be cancerous but people don't care. It's like telling a smoker its bad to smoke. Smoking is even worse because it has 0 positive effects and pretty sure it does cause lung cancer if you look at statistics. But anyway there's probably gonna be some dude here now saying smoking is peaty.

Tobacco does have health benefits though. Probably shouldn't inhale it.

I was curious when Ray said the too much Testosterone has reverse effect too, because obviously people who take more get much more muscular like professional bodybuilders.
 

ShotTrue

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Steroids drastically increase atherosclerosis, which is perhaps reversible. It also downs collagen, I believe because it ages the skin much more. It's also difficult to balance the estradiol from test, which is of key importance. You also have to consider the neuro-psychological effects. Probably not worth using at all
 

Beefcake

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Steroids drastically increase atherosclerosis, which is perhaps reversible. It also downs collagen, I believe because it ages the skin much more. It's also difficult to balance the estradiol from test, which is of key importance. You also have to consider the neuro-psychological effects. Probably not worth using at all

If it’s worth using is everyones own opinion. I can totally see why most people don’t think the side effects are worth it. I can also understand people who wants to use them. Not worth using at all is your opinion.
 

ShotTrue

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If it’s worth using is everyones own opinion. I can totally see why most people don’t think the side effects are worth it. I can also understand people who wants to use them. Not worth using at all is your opinion.
lol sounds defensive. Yes it's my opinion. I would like to know if using androgens, which suppress gondal function, if that is a permanent effect or one that can be overcome to complete gonanadal function.
The reason I don't think steroids are probably worth it, is how much you could lose after using steroids, not to mention steroids make health worse, meanwhile lifting weights naturally increases health.
So in my OPINION, it would only be worthwhile if there are permanent serious musculature strength benefits, like you can keep a lot of the gains, or the gains pile on extremelty fast effectively saving years of effort in terms of time training WHILE reversing the potential atheroscerlosis, collagen downgrade, and gonad damage, not to mention the way it can impact hormones and body causing massive or prolonged inflammation that probably isn't reversible.
From that view I find it hard to believe it's worth its use
 
OP
J

Jing

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@Beefcake if I was to do 300mg a week of test e should I inject once a week or twice a week at 150mg each injection?
 

ShotTrue

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I am interested in using synethic androgens though, do not take me for a hater @Beefcake . Weighttraining is a passion of mine, I did crossfit just to laern Olympic Weightlifting so using androgens is very interesting to me. @olive seems like someone who has really profited, or at least come out of it looking good

@olive do you recommend using any of these, specifically the steroids:
nandrolone,periods of nac, vit D, zinc, p5p, UDCA, nandrolone, testosterone, trestolone, methyltrienolone, anavar, exemestane, taurine, calcium carbonate, ashwagandha, whole E, biotin, K2 MK4, K2 Mk7, glycine, coffee.

or would you say to avoid steroids and go with the natural substances
 

Beefcake

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lol sounds defensive. Yes it's my opinion. I would like to know if using androgens, which suppress gondal function, if that is a permanent effect or one that can be overcome to complete gonanadal function.
The reason I don't think steroids are probably worth it, is how much you could lose after using steroids, not to mention steroids make health worse, meanwhile lifting weights naturally increases health.
So in my OPINION, it would only be worthwhile if there are permanent serious musculature strength benefits, like you can keep a lot of the gains, or the gains pile on extremelty fast effectively saving years of effort in terms of time training WHILE reversing the potential atheroscerlosis, collagen downgrade, and gonad damage, not to mention the way it can impact hormones and body causing massive or prolonged inflammation that probably isn't reversible.
From that view I find it hard to believe it's worth its use

There’s lots of ways you can do a cycle without getting shutdown after. Use HCG during the cycle. This will act as LH on your testicles while your own LH gets supressed by the injected T. So your testicles wont atrophy or shrink at all and will be stimulated just as normally. This will help your balls to reverse LH production later and protect them aswell. The main reason people get shutdown and stay shutdown is due to estrogen preventing normal LH to return. I know dudes who done a 12 week cycle of testosterone with HCG and aromasin and only used aromasin during PCT and they couldnot even tell that they been shutdown at any point. Its all about following the schedule, timing and dosage of these tools you can basically prevent shutdown all together.

@Jing 3 times a week. Monday, wednesday or friday, with a lower dose of 300mg I would do twice a week mondays and thursdays. I would aim for 400-500mg per week as first cycle actually and go 3 times. Use low dose aromasin and get HCG to prevent testicular shrinkage for a fast recovery when you quit.
 

ShotTrue

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So it's only estrogen and lack of LSH? I assumed it damaged the gonads beyond repair.
I had read about aromasin PCTs, I just assumed SERMS had an essential function like increasing LH,FSH, many people not bigger testes and larger cum volumes while using SERMS.
So just using HCG and keeping estrogen is check is all that's needed to have functioning testes. hmmm
 

Beefcake

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So it's only estrogen and lack of LSH? I assumed it damaged the gonads beyond repair.
I had read about aromasin PCTs, I just assumed SERMS had an essential function like increasing LH,FSH, many people not bigger testes and larger cum volumes while using SERMS.
So just using HCG and keeping estrogen is check is all that's needed to have functioning testes. hmmm

SERMs function is to inhibit estrogen at the hypothalamus. Estrogen acting on the hypothalamus is what suppresses LH secretion and that lowers Testicular output. Aromasin inhibits the enzyme aromatase which is responisble for producinnestrogen through out the whole body and in the brain. Aromasin is basically more effective and stronger than the SERMs at doing this. I don’t really understand why in the bodybuilder community people praise the SERMs for the drugs only capable at reversing the estrogen feedback on the hypothalamus. The SERMs are probably worse and more unhealthy for you than the steroid AIs like aromasin. In terms of testicular atrophy/shrinkage it depends on how hard and how long you do your cycle. This will get reversed once you end the cycle and continue to use aromasin to keep estrogen low. What you can do to prevent testicle shrinkge completely during the whole cycle and also make PCT a breeze is to use HCG during the cycle. HCG directly stimulates the balls to keep on like nothing has happened. Yes HCG will preserve your balls from shrinking during cycle and estrogen inhibition will force your hypothalamus to pulsate LH. Thats exactly what clomid and nolvadex do. Inhibit estrogen at the hypothalamus. Exemestane does this aswell. Thas why theres studies of increased T and LH using aromasin.
 

ShotTrue

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SERMs function is to inhibit estrogen at the hypothalamus. Estrogen acting on the hypothalamus is what suppresses LH secretion and that lowers Testicular output. Aromasin inhibits the enzyme aromatase which is responisble for producinnestrogen through out the whole body and in the brain. Aromasin is basically more effective and stronger than the SERMs at doing this. I don’t really understand why in the bodybuilder community people praise the SERMs for the drugs only capable at reversing the estrogen feedback on the hypothalamus. The SERMs are probably worse and more unhealthy for you than the steroid AIs like aromasin. In terms of testicular atrophy/shrinkage it depends on how hard and how long you do your cycle. This will get reversed once you end the cycle and continue to use aromasin to keep estrogen low. What you can do to prevent testicle shrinkge completely during the whole cycle and also make PCT a breeze is to use HCG during the cycle. HCG directly stimulates the balls to keep on like nothing has happened. Yes HCG will preserve your balls from shrinking during cycle and estrogen inhibition will force your hypothalamus to pulsate LH. Thats exactly what clomid and nolvadex do. Inhibit estrogen at the hypothalamus. Exemestane does this aswell. Thas why theres studies of increased T and LH using aromasin.
AH I see. @RisingSun do you have any input here? Also @olive
Yes, and SERMS act like estrogen in brain and bone tissue and completely suck. I think bodybuilders just hear one way and go with it
Would be nice to use steroids like tren, get permanent effects, then go on with my life
 

Beefcake

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AH I see. @RisingSun do you have any input here? Also @olive
Yes, and SERMS act like estrogen in brain and bone tissue and completely suck. I think bodybuilders just hear one way and go with it
Would be nice to use steroids like tren, get permanent effects, then go on with my life

If you never used steroids before I wouldnt go for tren. Its the strongest one there is basically. And the side effects are pretty harsh its not a natural hormone.
 

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