Winstrol

[Beefcake]

Or you could raise your testosterone through diet and supps and avoid having to micromanage risky steroid protocols....

Probably be more valuable for you to understand your body and how to maintain your health over your lifespan than some quick fix steroid protocol.

If you are thinking about injecting steroids i think your looking for a shortcut to get insane gains fast and not dietary advice. You cant compare the time frame it would take years even with extremly good diet, exercise and supplements compared to what you can achieve with steroids in just months.
You cant even compare impossible to get same gains

 

[CLASH]

Whats the point of “insane gains fast”?

Especially for what seems like a begginner who has no interest in competing professionally... contextually theres no upside. Especially considering a loss of all or most of his gains when he comes off. Might as well buy a halloween costume.

 

[Beefcake]

Whats the point of “insane gains fast”?

Especially for what seems like a begginner who has no interest in competing professionally... contextually theres no upside. Especially considering a loss of all or most of his gains when he comes off. Might as well buy a halloween costume.

Theres a lot of dudes who take steroids without competing. Its their own decision. If you know what you’re doing you can do it quite safetly and not lose your gains after. You can keep your gains and get your T levels restored plus avoid liver damage.

 

[CLASH]

@Beefcake
You recommend this for a begginer tho?

EDIT: How many people actually know what they’re doing? In this context, does the OP know what he is doing?

 

[Beefcake]

@Beefcake
You recommend this for a begginer tho?

EDIT: How many people actually know what they’re doing? In this context, does the OP know what he is doing?

You have to start at some place? And testosterone is the best anabolic steroid to start with. Its an endogenous hormone and does not have the damaging effects other AAS has. Its his safest option. Im trying to help someone who was considering solo winstrol. This guy would probably do steroids at one time or another. He has done a safe and wise decision to actually go online research it first and talk about it on a forum. I can tell @Jing that yes he shouldn’t do steroids its bad. But I’m fairly confident he already knows this and still he decides to pursue. Call him a moron if you want to but it’s his decision. According to you everyone who takes steroids are morons? I don’t think steroid users care about your opinion regarding that matter. All im trying to do is to provide my knowledge and guidiance so that if Jing decides to go down that path he start with a safe drug and do it properly to avoid damage and save gains. AAS can be quite safe specially something like testosterone that most men in the USA are prescribed now a days anyway by their doctor. Just get needles, do proper dosage, inject in muscle follow instructions. Then do a proper PCT and you’re good. Aromasin, zinc + copper and DHEA + Preg and you can recover your own production very fast. It’s all about just keeping Estrogen low with aromasin when his cycle is over. Estrogen is what ruins all the muscle gains. I would avoid all SERMs.

 

[CLASH]

“Fast strength increase, maintain muscle while cutting, and just interested but I very much doubt I would because I have heard oral only cycles are bad, but was wondering if pansterone would help”

-jing

@Beefcake
Based on this post it seems hes on the edge about using at all...

Haha i never said anything about people using steroids being morons or even insinuated that the OP was a moron, I have no idea where you got that from. I’m not sure how you go from “I question if its a good idea for a begginer to use steroids, especially if not competing and especially if he doesnt know what hes doing” to calling him a moron and saying that “all people who take steroids are morons”. Perhaps your used to anti-steroid sentiment but I dont have that. I’m talking in context. I personally supplement with progesterone and DHEA periodically and I wouldnt mind using low dose DHT to try it out if i could get it.

Are you going to personally consult with him while hes on his cycle?

I think it’d be more relevant to ask why are so many guys on TRT, rather than just push another, I assume young guy, towards TRT. I think test can be raised naturally without exogenous steroids. I think figuring out why his levels are low, if they are, would be more important to his overall health and life than using a bandaid solution. I think learning how to train and diet appropriately would be more important for a begginer in lifting and bodybuilding than to start using exogenous hormones right away. I think you would have a hard time finding any expert or steroid user who would reccomend a rank begginner use steroids right away. “Hes going to do it anyway”, in my mind, is not a reason not to steer a seemingly rank begginer away from potentionally risky use of drugs and hormones...

None of the drugs or compounds you listed are entirely without risk, even testosterone. PCT’s and cycles dont always go as planned, its not that simple or easy. There are posts all over the internet of guys who messed themselves up with steroids and had issues with thier PCT.

 

[Beefcake]

“Fast strength increase, maintain muscle while cutting, and just interested but I very much doubt I would because I have heard oral only cycles are bad, but was wondering if pansterone would help”

-jing

@Beefcake
Based on this post it seems hes on the edge about using at all...

Haha i never said anything about people using steroids being morons or even insinuated that the OP was a moron, I have no idea where you got that from. I’m not sure how you go from “I question if its a good idea for a begginer to use steroids, especially if not competing and especially if he doesnt know what hes doing” to calling him a moron and saying that “all people who take steroids are morons”. Perhaps your used to anti-steroid sentiment but I dont have that. I’m talking in context. I personally supplement with progesterone and DHEA periodically and I wouldnt mind using low dose DHT to try it out if i could get it.

Are you going to personally consult with him while hes on his cycle?

I think it’d be more relevant to ask why are so many guys on TRT, rather than just push another, I assume young guy, towards TRT. I think test can be raised naturally without exogenous steroids. I think figuring out why his levels are low, if they are, would be more important to his overall health and life than using a bandaid solution. I think learning how to train and diet appropriately would be more important for a begginer in lifting and bodybuilding than to start using exogenous hormones right away. I think you would have a hard time finding any expert or steroid user who would reccomend a rank begginner use steroids right away. “Hes going to do it anyway”, in my mind, is not a reason not to steer a seemingly rank begginer away from potentionally risky use of drugs and hormones...

None of the drugs or compounds you listed are entirely without risk, even testosterone. PCT’s and cycles dont always go as planned, its not that simple or easy. There are posts all over the internet of guys who messed themselves up with steroids and had issues with thier PCT.

Yes I agree there’s no point in going on steroids if your health is crap to begin with because as soon as you’re done wtih the gear you will naturally go back to the crap then. If you want to save your gains you have to naturally have high T to be able to get high T after a cycle. And having low T then go on steroids and off I would imagine that can put people in an even worse place than before they did gear. The moron thing was for me to make a statement that you dont have to shut someone down because they are thinking or considering steroids. But you have to respect it’s their choice and they can find the information on the internet anyway. Like i said i believe Jing is aware of the danger of steroids. But the information how to do it properly is out there.

 

[RisingSun]

@


And these men get the same body building effect?

Why would identical hormone levels yield different results?

 

[Jing]

@Beefcake
You recommend this for a begginer tho?

EDIT: How many people actually know what they’re doing? In this context, does the OP know what he is doing?

I'm not a beginner, I've had experience with lifting since age 12.

 

[Beefcake]

Why would identical hormone levels yield different results?

It doesn’t yield different results. The results are based on how strong the anabolic properties of an steroid is. But oral steroids tend to be liver toxic and to an extent a lot of the injectable steroids aswell. This does not occur with for example testosterone enanthate. Which makes sense because otherwise your natural testosterone would be liver toxic.
Winstrol, dianabol and trenbolone are liver toxic. If you want to fiddle with those steroids then you can really expect side effects. An endogenous hormone like testosterone that is not synthesized in a lab has a much better safety profile and thats why it’s used as a beginner steroid. If one are only looking for muscle gains then testosterone is definantly enough to get the job done. And thats why testosterone is suitable for TRT and why other steroids are not used. Its safer. Im not trying to promote steroid use. Im trying to help someone whos considering steroids to go the safest route.

 

[Beefcake]

I'm not a beginner, I've had experience with lifting since age 12.

@CLASH
Yeah I do recommend testosterone injection for a beginner though. Sorry there’s no other way to start with real steroids.

 

[Jing]

@CLASH
Yeah I do recommend testosterone injection for a beginner though. Sorry there’s no other way to start with real steroids.

Yh that is what I found all over the internet, test always as a base. I've still got lots more to research before I actually decide to take test.

 

[CLASH]

@Jing
Generally, from what I cant tell in the lifting sphere, beginner has not so much to do with how long you’ve been lifting as much as your progression overall. With this in mind, do you mind discussing you bodyweight and subsequent poundages on lifts like bench, row, squat or leg press, deadlift, chin up, dip?

@Beefcake
So your saying that you recommend a begginer lifter to start taking testosterone off the bat? Begginner being someone with relatively little experince, not much weight on thier lifts, not much know how in the gym or with diet.

 

[Jing]

@Jing
Generally, from what I cant tell in the lifting sphere, beginner has not so much to do with how long you’ve been lifting as much as your progression overall. With this in mind, do you mind discussing you bodyweight and subsequent poundages on lifts like bench, row, squat or leg press, deadlift, chin up, dip?

I'm 210 pounds, I can bench 50kg but I don't do bench press, I can row 90kg, I can squat 70kg, deadlift 110kg, don't do chin ups but can do 4, don't do dips, I can barbell curl 40kg could get higher on squats but haven't been focused on squats much recently.

I'm 210 pounds, I can bench 50kg but I don't do bench press, I can row 90kg, I can squat 70kg, deadlift 110kg, don't do chin ups but can do 4, don't do dips, I can barbell curl 40kg could get higher on squats but haven't been focused on squats much recently.

 

[Beefcake]

@Jing
Generally, from what I cant tell in the lifting sphere, beginner has not so much to do with how long you’ve been lifting as much as your progression overall. With this in mind, do you mind discussing you bodyweight and subsequent poundages on lifts like bench, row, squat or leg press, deadlift, chin up, dip?

@Beefcake
So your saying that you recommend a begginer lifter to start taking testosterone off the bat? Begginner being someone with relatively little experince, not much weight on thier lifts, not much know how in the gym or with diet.

@CLASH Clearly I would never recommend anyone whos not going to the gym to take steroids. @Jing clearly has both experience in the gym and 2ndly I doubt that anyone who has not worked out for years are even considering going online to buy steroids. Everyone who start out lifting believe the steroid users are natural. Once they lifted for awhile and seen how hard it is to gain serious muscles they realize who in the gym is fake and who is not. I never said ”any beginner lifter should take testosterone of the bat” i was assuming that anyone who goes on the internet to find out more about steroids is not a beginner. Google first time steroid use and you realize that even the hardcore steroid websites says this is not for beginners and should be taken very seriously. Like I mentioned many times now @Jing most likely know all of this and he still wants to pursue. Thats his choice. I trust him that he educate himself to his fullest capacity before he makes up his mind about all of this. If he doesn’t thats on him if this goes wrong. Like I said the information and the drugs how to do this are out there. At least I can tell him whats safe to start. Even though he probably already realized this himself. But sure I can tell Jing that there are risks with doing this. But I can also tell him that he will never be able to get the same muscles without steroids. He has to choose. Risk or muscles. Alot of people dont care that much about muscles. I generally don’t myself but a person who wants to take steroids most likely cares more about that. It’s like people with freaky surgery. They risk going under the needle to look like a cat.
Well some people risk to take steroids to look big. Its their choice man.

 

[Jing]

I can also overhead press 50kg.ive had to keep my lifts lighter than I can do as I have shoulder inpingment and had a few problems with forearms atm.

 

[RisingSun]

@CLASH
Yeah I do recommend testosterone injection for a beginner though. Sorry there’s no other way to start with real steroids.

So you recommend a total stranger on the internet to insert a needle in his muscle when equal androgen amounts can be reached with a high concentration test in DMSO applied to the scrotum?

 

[Beefcake]

So you recommend a total stranger on the internet to insert a needle in his muscle when equal androgen amounts can be reached with a high concentration test in DMSO applied to the scrotum?

Whats so bad with a needle? Help this man to buy DMSO and test then. On top of that show me before and after pictures of men who took dmso test on scrotum in terms of muscle gain. If my goal was to gain muscles I would rather go for a needle where there’s tens of thousands of men on the internet showing that injecting actually gives results than risking to get shutdown from dmso testosterone without any gains. Sure it might work the way you say it but I do have to see results before I would experiment with something like that. Your concern is only the fact that its a needle? Why is the needle part so important. Is it really so much more hardcore to stick a needle to your thigh or **** cheek? Milions of men do this home everyday. Even my 70 year old dad does it. Doctor just gave him all he needed and showed him how its done. Your not injecting heroin from a dirty needle on the street

 

[Beefcake]

So you recommend a total stranger on the internet to insert a needle in his muscle when equal androgen amounts can be reached with a high concentration test in DMSO applied to the scrotum?

Its this easy. This dude done it for 9 years never a single problem. @Jing would only have to do it 10 times to complete his first cycle.

 

[olive]

So you recommend a total stranger on the internet to insert a needle in his muscle when equal androgen amounts can be reached with a high concentration test in DMSO applied to the scrotum?

Why the aversion to needles? Much safer, especially if you live with females - too many horror stories of T gel accidentally brushing up on sister/daughter/wife and causing massive hormonal issues.
And there is a big difference between injection and topical; absorption, UAC, cMAX, etc.
I get you’re a “professional” but best to leave this to the experts. There’s a reason why T injections have been a mainstay in bodybuilding circles for the last 50 years. Simple, safe, effective.