Will lemon balm help against benzodiazepine's physical anxiety?

[TreasureVibe]

Hi, would lemon balm help against physical anxiety caused by benzodiazepine withdrawal?
Is it safe to take while tapering off valium?


Thank you

 

[Frankdee20]

Benzodiazepine withdrawal is pharmacologically induced, using Lemon Balm (a transaminase inhibitor) to help is like using a revolver when you need high powered fully automatic weapons

 

[Nicole W.]

Hi, would lemon balm help against physical anxiety caused by benzodiazepine withdrawal?
Is it safe to take while tapering off valium?


Thank you

You mean Lemon Balm Tea? Capsules? No.

The tea is mildly relaxing as are the capsules. I have used them for anxiety in the past and they help somewhat, but for drug withdrawal induced anxiety you would most certainly need something stronger.

We’re talking about mint leaves here. Lemon balm is a mint. I don’t think it could supply the type of action you’re looking for.

 

[johnwester130]

Benzodiazepine withdrawal is pharmacologically induced, using Lemon Balm (a transaminase inhibitor) to help is like using a revolver when you need high powered fully automatic weapons

so what would you suggest?

niacinamide can replace klonopin
http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2004/pdf/2004-v19n02-p104.pdf

b6 too

mag glycinate
taurine
theanine

lemon balm/ German chamomile/ valerian etc

List Of Supplements, Herbs, Foods, Etc. That Raise GABA-A

I'm looking to experiment a bit with increasing GABA-A. Anything you guys and gals know that'll help increase it? Preferably more on the peaty side (I know alcohol raises GABA-A but I wouldn't consider that healthy)

raypeatforum.com

 

[dilantinoid]

so what would you suggest?

niacinamide can replace klonopin
http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2004/pdf/2004-v19n02-p104.pdf

b6 too

mag glycinate
taurine
theanine

lemon balm/ German chamomile/ valerian etc

List Of Supplements, Herbs, Foods, Etc. That Raise GABA-A

I'm looking to experiment a bit with increasing GABA-A. Anything you guys and gals know that'll help increase it? Preferably more on the peaty side (I know alcohol raises GABA-A but I wouldn't consider that healthy)

raypeatforum.com

Cyproheptadine, in higher doses. Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome could be a form of serotonin syndrome. It’s helping me tremendously with my taper. Also, the severe symptoms associated with withdrawal are indeed inescapable stress...


abrupt withdrawal from intrathecal baclofen (GABAB) may be driven by excess serotonin.

—

“ We report a case of ITB withdrawal secondary to low residual volume in the pump reservoir and resembling serotonin syndrome in an adolescent with cerebral palsy. He presented with agitation, diaphoresis, increasing spasticity, rigidity, jitteriness, hyperreflexia, clonus, tachycardia, hypertension, and rhabdomyolysis. Treatment consisted of emergent refilling of the pump, intravenous diazepam, and oral cyproheptadine. We also emphasize the importance of prompt recognition of ITB withdrawal among high-risk patients.”

 

[Frankdee20]

so what would you suggest?

niacinamide can replace klonopin
http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2004/pdf/2004-v19n02-p104.pdf

b6 too

mag glycinate
taurine
theanine

lemon balm/ German chamomile/ valerian etc

List Of Supplements, Herbs, Foods, Etc. That Raise GABA-A

I'm looking to experiment a bit with increasing GABA-A. Anything you guys and gals know that'll help increase it? Preferably more on the peaty side (I know alcohol raises GABA-A but I wouldn't consider that healthy)

raypeatforum.com

Yeah those are all fine and dandy but time helps the withdrawal more than anything....

 

[TreasureVibe]

Cyproheptadine, in higher doses. Benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome could be a form of serotonin syndrome. It’s helping me tremendously with my taper. Also, the severe symptoms associated with withdrawal are indeed inescapable stress...


abrupt withdrawal from intrathecal baclofen (GABAB) may be driven by excess serotonin.

—

“ We report a case of ITB withdrawal secondary to low residual volume in the pump reservoir and resembling serotonin syndrome in an adolescent with cerebral palsy. He presented with agitation, diaphoresis, increasing spasticity, rigidity, jitteriness, hyperreflexia, clonus, tachycardia, hypertension, and rhabdomyolysis. Treatment consisted of emergent refilling of the pump, intravenous diazepam, and oral cyproheptadine. We also emphasize the importance of prompt recognition of ITB withdrawal among high-risk patients.”

Did cyproheptadine help you during benzodiazepine withdrawal? And how much mg should you take?

 

[TreasureVibe]

so what would you suggest?

niacinamide can replace klonopin
http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2004/pdf/2004-v19n02-p104.pdf

b6 too

mag glycinate
taurine
theanine

lemon balm/ German chamomile/ valerian etc

List Of Supplements, Herbs, Foods, Etc. That Raise GABA-A

I'm looking to experiment a bit with increasing GABA-A. Anything you guys and gals know that'll help increase it? Preferably more on the peaty side (I know alcohol raises GABA-A but I wouldn't consider that healthy)

raypeatforum.com

I tried niacinamide once but it only alleviated physical anxiety for an hour. I took 1500 mg.

 

[TreasureVibe]

What about lithium orotate? I read somewhere here on the forum that it helped benzodiazepine withdrawal as well.

 

[dilantinoid]

Did cyproheptadine help you during benzodiazepine withdrawal? And how much mg should you take?

I just started ramping up the dose after reviewing @haidut thread Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

Withdrawal symptoms do disappear, tolerance to sedation seems to build. Transdermal on wrists.


Attenuation of benzodiazepine withdrawal anxiety in the rat by serotonin antagonists

Attenuation of benzodiazepine withdrawal anxiety in the rat by serotonin antagonists - PubMed

Administration of benzodiazepines is known to be associated with tolerance and a withdrawal syndrome on abrupt cessation. The aetiology of the withdrawal syndrome is not known but a role for the serotonin (5HT) system is suspected. The aim of the current study was to investigate the usefulness...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I was / am microdosing Amanita Muscaria (GABAA) with definte benefit, I think I may have something here with the combined approach.

General Discussion - Page 12 - Amanita Research Forum

This is my third attempt at tapering.

 

[TreasureVibe]

What about phenibut?

I found this product for benzo withdrawal relief called Chill6 and it contains a low amount of phenibut and it states in the description:

"Phenibut is GABA; past the blood brain barrier, by nourishing the GABA receptors with it's specific amino acid, i.e., GABA, the dysregulated receptors are activated to function properly. Phenibut nourishes your brains GABA receptors with it's amino acid gamma-Aminobutric acid (GABA,) with time (a slow taper) and good old fashioned rest and recovery, phenibut may enhance the process of re-entrainment to help restore your GABA receptors normal function."

 

[dilantinoid]

What about phenibut?

I found this product for benzo withdrawal relief called Chill6 and it contains a low amount of phenibut and it states in the description:

"Phenibut is GABA; past the blood brain barrier, by nourishing the GABA receptors with it's specific amino acid, i.e., GABA, the dysregulated receptors are activated to function properly. Phenibut nourishes your brains GABA receptors with it's amino acid gamma-Aminobutric acid (GABA,) with time (a slow taper) and good old fashioned rest and recovery, phenibut may enhance the process of re-entrainment to help restore your GABA receptors normal function."

I’ve taken it, but not for withdrawal or taper, to stay functional pre taper. It comes with its own set of dependency risks, absolutely cannot be taken every day.
I don’t know. I would avoid, it’s just my intuition.

 

[TreasureVibe]

I just started ramping up the dose after reviewing @haidut thread Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

Withdrawal symptoms do disappear, tolerance to sedation seems to build. Transdermal on wrists.


Attenuation of benzodiazepine withdrawal anxiety in the rat by serotonin antagonists

Attenuation of benzodiazepine withdrawal anxiety in the rat by serotonin antagonists - PubMed

Administration of benzodiazepines is known to be associated with tolerance and a withdrawal syndrome on abrupt cessation. The aetiology of the withdrawal syndrome is not known but a role for the serotonin (5HT) system is suspected. The aim of the current study was to investigate the usefulness...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I was / am microdosing Amanita Muscaria (GABAA) with definte benefit, I think I may have something here with the combined approach.

General Discussion - Page 12 - Amanita Research Forum

This is my third attempt at tapering.

What do you mean with tolerance to sedation seems to build?

 

[dilantinoid]

What do you mean with tolerance to sedation seems to build?

Cyproheptadine with continued use doesn’t seem to sedate anymore, just a lowering of stress / serotonin

 

[TreasureVibe]

Cyproheptadine with continued use doesn’t seem to sedate anymore, just a lowering of stress / serotonin

What doses do you recommend?

 

[johnwester130]

What about lithium orotate? I read somewhere here on the forum that it helped benzodiazepine withdrawal as well.

it looks very interesting.

I think lithium works in the same way as methylene blue??

this looks interesting too

Melissa Supreme, Glycerin Based

Traditionally supports calmness* It's easy to feel stressed and frazzled at times. Gaia Herbs Melissa Supreme is made with a blend of herbs traditionally used to support calmness.* Contains a calming herbs including Lemon Balm, Gotu Kola, Passionflower and Chamomile.* With American Skullcap and...

www.gaiaherbs.com

 

[Lejeboca]

I'd try Scutellaria Baicalensis. It has strong anti-anxiety action on me, although my anxiety is not from benzos. And I've proved the herb--in tincture form--when I didn't stop taking it in time.

Here is a quick find on Scutellaria Baicalensis and benzos. I didn't read beyond the abstract yet, however.

Anxiolytic effect of wogonin, a benzodiazepine receptor ligand isolated from Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi - PubMed

Abstract: The search for novel anxiolytics devoid of undesirable side-effects typical of classical benzodiazepines (BDZs) has been intense, and flavonoids, as a relative new class of ligands, have been shown to possess anxiolytic effects in vivo. The present study evaluated the pharmacological properties of a naturally occurring monoflavonoid, 5,7-dihydroxy-8-methoxyflavone or wogonin. The affinity (K(i)) of wogonin for the benzodiazepine site (BZD-S) on the gamma-aminobutyric acid(A) (GABA(A)) receptor complex was 0.92 microM. Using electrophysiological techniques, we showed that wogonin enhanced the GABA-activated current in rat dorsal root ganglion neurons, and in Xenopus laevis oocytes expressing recombinant rat GABA(A) receptors, the enhancement was partially reversed by the co-application of a 1 microM concentration of the BZD-S antagonist anexate (Ro15-1788). Acute toxicity and behavioral effects were examined in mice. Acute lethal activity was low, with an LD(50) of 3.9 g/kg. Oral administration of wogonin (7.5 to 30 mg/kg) elicited an anxiolytic response that was similar to that elicited by diazepam in the elevated plus-maze; a dose-dependent increase in open arm entries and time spent in open arms was observed. More importantly, its anxiolytic effect was blocked by the co-administration of Ro15-1788. In the holeboard test, not only did wogonin-treated mice experience an increased number of head-dips but they also spent more time at it, showing no signs of sedation. Furthermore, wogonin did not cause myorelaxant effects in the horizontal wire test. Taken together, these data suggest that wogonin exerts its anxiolytic effect through positive allosteric modulation of the GABA(A) receptor complex via interaction at the BZD-S. Its anxiolytic effect was not accompanied by sedative and myorelaxant side-effects typical of BDZs.

See also

Decrease In Anxiety By Inhibiting Glyoxalase I (Additional Reason For Pau D'arco)

Mostly the role of glyoxalase I (GloI) inhibition in cancer therapy has been discussed on RP. The paper below shows its role for decreasing anxiety. Earlier posts (see, e.g., Cottage Cheese & Fresh Flax Seed Oil Cures Cancer and Is Pau D'Arco Really The Best Option Out Of The Tabebuia...

raypeatforum.com

 

[TreasureVibe]

I'd try Scutellaria Baicalensis. It has strong anti-anxiety action on me, although my anxiety is not from benzos. And I've proved the herb--in tincture form--when I didn't stop taking it in time.

Here is a quick find on Scutellaria Baicalensis and benzos. I didn't read beyond the abstract yet, however.

Anxiolytic effect of wogonin, a benzodiazepine receptor ligand isolated from Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi - PubMed

Abstract: The search for novel anxiolytics devoid of undesirable side-effects typical of classical benzodiazepines (BDZs) has been intense, and flavonoids, as a relative new class of ligands, have been shown to possess anxiolytic effects in vivo. The present study evaluated the pharmacological properties of a naturally occurring monoflavonoid, 5,7-dihydroxy-8-methoxyflavone or wogonin. The affinity (K(i)) of wogonin for the benzodiazepine site (BZD-S) on the gamma-aminobutyric acid(A) (GABA(A)) receptor complex was 0.92 microM. Using electrophysiological techniques, we showed that wogonin enhanced the GABA-activated current in rat dorsal root ganglion neurons, and in Xenopus laevis oocytes expressing recombinant rat GABA(A) receptors, the enhancement was partially reversed by the co-application of a 1 microM concentration of the BZD-S antagonist anexate (Ro15-1788). Acute toxicity and behavioral effects were examined in mice. Acute lethal activity was low, with an LD(50) of 3.9 g/kg. Oral administration of wogonin (7.5 to 30 mg/kg) elicited an anxiolytic response that was similar to that elicited by diazepam in the elevated plus-maze; a dose-dependent increase in open arm entries and time spent in open arms was observed. More importantly, its anxiolytic effect was blocked by the co-administration of Ro15-1788. In the holeboard test, not only did wogonin-treated mice experience an increased number of head-dips but they also spent more time at it, showing no signs of sedation. Furthermore, wogonin did not cause myorelaxant effects in the horizontal wire test. Taken together, these data suggest that wogonin exerts its anxiolytic effect through positive allosteric modulation of the GABA(A) receptor complex via interaction at the BZD-S. Its anxiolytic effect was not accompanied by sedative and myorelaxant side-effects typical of BDZs.

See also

Decrease In Anxiety By Inhibiting Glyoxalase I (Additional Reason For Pau D'arco)

Mostly the role of glyoxalase I (GloI) inhibition in cancer therapy has been discussed on RP. The paper below shows its role for decreasing anxiety. Earlier posts (see, e.g., Cottage Cheese & Fresh Flax Seed Oil Cures Cancer and Is Pau D'Arco Really The Best Option Out Of The Tabebuia...

raypeatforum.com

What dose of Chinese skullcap do you recommend? I can get 250 mg capsules.

it looks very interesting.

I think lithium works in the same way as methylene blue??

this looks interesting too

Melissa Supreme, Glycerin Based

Traditionally supports calmness* It's easy to feel stressed and frazzled at times. Gaia Herbs Melissa Supreme is made with a blend of herbs traditionally used to support calmness.* Contains a calming herbs including Lemon Balm, Gotu Kola, Passionflower and Chamomile.* With American Skullcap and...

www.gaiaherbs.com

That product looks good but it has American skullcap in it and I heard bad stories about that. I don't know if lithium works the same way as MB.

 

[Roguestrand70]

Yeah those are all fine and dandy but time helps the withdrawal more than anything....

What kind of time are we looking at. I’m at .75mg clonazepam

what kind of reduction taper? Ashton is a really long one

 

[Frankdee20]

What kind of time are we looking at. I’m at .75mg clonazepam

what kind of reduction taper? Ashton is a really long one

The brain only knows, everyone is different, discontinuation syndromes and protracted withdrawals are real, and never an exact science ...