Will high testosterone make you shredded like Mike o'Hearn

[Gûs80]

Did you talk to your doc about nandrolone or did you make that shift yourself?

I did several tests with different doctors, from the use of Nebido, Cypionate, Enanthate, Sustanon and Propionate. Doses between 80 to 250mg per week, in single and divided doses (even daily). Conjugated with anastrazole, exemestane, dutasteride, etc. They did tests with analogues of dht, oxandrolone, masteron and even stanozolol.
In Brazil we have a doctor well known for treating men with nandrolone only. He adds injectable estradiol in low doses to maintain adequate levels of e2, because contrary to common sense, in 6 to 12 weeks on Deca Only, the patient will have his e2 zeroed.

 

[Gûs80]

This is very interesting, I believe you as hormones are complicated, but I would like to understand how nandrolone could be healthier than testosterone... is it the fact that nandrolone converts to less dht, or that nandrolone also acts as progesterone, or that nandrolone only weakly converts to estrogen? Weird.

You could've tried test + proviron instead of going deca only but as your under the supervision of your doc don't overthink it as long as he is competent.

I did several tests with different doctors, from the use of Nebido, Cypionate, Enanthate, Sustanon and Propionate. Doses between 80 to 250mg per week, in single and divided doses (even daily). Conjugated with anastrazole, exemestane, dutasteride, etc. They did tests with analogues of dht, oxandrolone, masteron and even stanozolol.
In Brazil we have a doctor well known for treating men with nandrolone only. He adds injectable estradiol in low doses to maintain adequate levels of e2, because contrary to common sense, in 6 to 12 weeks on Deca Only, the patient will have his e2 zeroed.

 

[Gûs80]

Nandrolone as a Potential Alternative Androgen with Reduced Androgenic Side Effects for Transfeminine and Transmasculine People

Nandrolone as a Potential Alternative Androgen with Reduced Androgenic Side Effects for Transfeminine and Transmasculine People by Aly

transfemscience.org

Nandrolone, a 19-nortestosterone, enhances insulin-independent glucose uptake in normal men - PubMed

The effect of exogenous androgens on glucose metabolism is controversial. This study was designed to clarify the impact of testosterone enanthate (TE), an aromatizable androgen, and nandrolone decanoate (ND), a nonaromatizable androgen, on glucose disposal. Eleven healthy men were enrolled in a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Gûs80]

In my opinion, men who metabolize e2 quickly tend to do very poorly with nandrolone, precisely because of the non-aromatization. I don't think it's the Nandrolone that decreases serotonin, as studies with rats claim, but rather the e2 deficiency that will be generated in a few weeks of Deca Only.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5316746_Reduced_activity_of_monoamine_oxidase_in_the_rat_brain_following_repeated_nandrolone_decanoate_administration

Now for men who aromatize a lot, this feels like an elixir. I felt the calm of low serotonin in a few weeks and today I can lose weight eating 60% of my diet with carbohydrates.

try to watch with the youtube translator turned on.


View: https://youtu.be/Xao-Ov_dDEg

 

[Hans]

In these 7 years I've been to 4 different endocrinologists, apart from doctors from other areas and nutritionists. Unfortunately, the knowledge of most doctors is very shallow.

I made the switch myself after years of failure, lots of money spent on doctors and tests, and thousands of hours of research. I found in several forums of trt and hormones, men who fail with trt and do well with nandrolone.

Men who aromatize a lot and have slow metabolism of estrogen and serotonin.

On youtube there are some doctors who talk about the use of nandrolone as HRT, something widely used in patients with HIV and transsexuals, precisely because it has much less side effects, since it does not aromatize and does not convert into dht.

What dose do you use and how frequently do you inject.
Deca is a ERa agonist, which is the main hypothesis why it causes deca ****. Have you experienced this at all, or not at your current dose?

 

[Gûs80]

What dose do you use and how frequently do you inject.
Deca is a ERa agonist, which is the main hypothesis why it causes deca ****. Have you experienced this at all, or not at your current dose?

At the beginning of last year I had my first experience with Deca Only. Already in the first week I felt the strong anxiolytic effects of nandrolone, improvement in sleep, a clear decrease in serotonin and increased ability to absorb glucose.
At the end of the 3rd month using Deca Only I started to have erection problems and zero libido. That's because Deca doesn't aromatize. My e2 has zeroed.
I stopped the test and went back to researching. There are 3 reported ways to solve the problem:
- use a small dose of Testosterone, 25% to 33% of the nandrolone dose
- replace with small doses of injectable estradiol;
- use higher doses of dhea to have good e2 levels.

I currently use 200mg of Nandrolone and 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. Very high libido, but not compulsive as it was with testosterone.

Deca Dic* is reported on the forums due to the high ratio between the compounds, I have not read reports at 4:1 and 3:1. From 2:1 it can develop. They don't really know the mechanism. It also occurs when testosterone is in greater proportion than nandrolone. Apparently it stimulates testosterone's ability to increase prolactin and e2. I myself had high prolactin and e2 levels while on trt, using only testosterone.

With regard to studies with rats, reports on human patients clearly show that Deca does not aromatize or increase prolactin at the dose I use.

This is an alternative only for patients who have tried different forms of replacement and have not been successful.

What I can say in my experience is that all the reports I've read here about DHT, I feel with Nandrolone: calm confidence, absence of anxiety, strength, muscle improvement, increased weight loss capacity, etc.

Perhaps the positive effect is not from DHT, but from any androgen, as long as e2 is controlled at low levels.

For years I had chronic anxiety, nandrolone is the most potent anxiolytic I have ever experienced in my life.


View: https://youtu.be/A0UmMrtEuQc

 

[Hans]

At the beginning of last year I had my first experience with Deca Only. Already in the first week I felt the strong anxiolytic effects of nandrolone, improvement in sleep, a clear decrease in serotonin and increased ability to absorb glucose.
At the end of the 3rd month using Deca Only I started to have erection problems and zero libido. That's because Deca doesn't aromatize. My e2 has zeroed.
I stopped the test and went back to researching. There are 3 reported ways to solve the problem:
- use a small dose of Testosterone, 25% to 33% of the nandrolone dose
- replace with small doses of injectable estradiol;
- use higher doses of dhea to have good e2 levels.

I currently use 200mg of Nandrolone and 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. Very high libido, but not compulsive as it was with testosterone.

Deca Dic* is reported on the forums due to the high ratio between the compounds, I have not read reports at 4:1 and 3:1. From 2:1 it can develop. They don't really know the mechanism. It also occurs when testosterone is in greater proportion than nandrolone. Apparently it stimulates testosterone's ability to increase prolactin and e2. I myself had high prolactin and e2 levels while on trt, using only testosterone.

With regard to studies with rats, reports on human patients clearly show that Deca does not aromatize or increase prolactin at the dose I use.

This is an alternative only for patients who have tried different forms of replacement and have not been successful.

What I can say in my experience is that all the reports I've read here about DHT, I feel with Nandrolone: calm confidence, absence of anxiety, strength, muscle improvement, increased weight loss capacity, etc.

Perhaps the positive effect is not from DHT, but from any androgen, as long as e2 is controlled at low levels.

For years I had chronic anxiety, nandrolone is the most potent anxiolytic I have ever experienced in my life.


View: https://youtu.be/A0UmMrtEuQc

This is very interesting. Are you planning on doing blood tests to take a look at where your testosterone, estradiol and DHT are with this combo?

 

[Gûs80]

This is very interesting. Are you planning on doing blood tests to take a look at where your testosterone, estradiol and DHT are with this combo?

Yes, in 2 or 3 months I will have new exams. Deca suppresses Testosterone, but in some types of tests it appears as Testosterone, depending on the method.

I will also include insulin, blood glucose, homa-ir, prolactin, lipidogram and blood count. Since I've always had high hematocrits with TRT and some doctors claim that nandrolone's impact on this marker is minimal.

I manipulated a b100 formula, and have been using niacin flush with a focus on lipids and liver. I use small doses of dramamine to sleep, which was the main cause of the hypogonadism I developed at a young age.

I started this week with 200mg of nandrolone + 25mg of DHEA eod. I know that's a high dosage when considering a man with preserved testosterone production, but in my case, Deca completely suppresses the axis, so I imagine a slightly higher dose would be needed.

What do you think of this dose? Have you seen any dose-response studies of dhea in men?

 

[Hans]

Yes, in 2 or 3 months I will have new exams. Deca suppresses Testosterone, but in some types of tests it appears as Testosterone, depending on the method.

I will also include insulin, blood glucose, homa-ir, prolactin, lipidogram and blood count. Since I've always had high hematocrits with TRT and some doctors claim that nandrolone's impact on this marker is minimal.

I manipulated a b100 formula, and have been using niacin flush with a focus on lipids and liver. I use small doses of dramamine to sleep, which was the main cause of the hypogonadism I developed at a young age.

I started this week with 200mg of nandrolone + 25mg of DHEA eod. I know that's a high dosage when considering a man with preserved testosterone production, but in my case, Deca completely suppresses the axis, so I imagine a slightly higher dose would be needed.

What do you think of this dose? Have you seen any dose-response studies of dhea in men?

I have not looked much in nandrolone as an alternative to TRT so I find this very interesting. I also would not know what's a good dose or not. I guess symptom resolution is the main marker to work off of here. It's more anabolic than T but less androgenic, so I'm not sure how that will influence the dose required.
Did you drop the T? If so, why?
DHEA will dose dependently increase DHEA, estrone and DHT when taken orally. It taken topically, it will increase T more, but also estradiol more.

 

[Gûs80]

I have not looked much in nandrolone as an alternative to TRT so I find this very interesting. I also would not know what's a good dose or not. I guess symptom resolution is the main marker to work off of here. It's more anabolic than T but less androgenic, so I'm not sure how that will influence the dose required.
Did you drop the T? If so, why?
DHEA will dose dependently increase DHEA, estrone and DHT when taken orally. It taken topically, it will increase T more, but also estradiol more.

The most common dose of the 4:1 protocol is 200mg Deca / 50mg Testosterone. They do higher doses in bulk, between 400 and 800mg. But my intent is HRT only.
Since I over-aromatize even with small doses, I always wanted to try the Deca Only protocol without testosterone but supplementing with DHEA. I want to see if this dhea pulse would give me lower e2 levels and some improvement in other parameters. Since starting TRT, my s-dhea has always come back very low, so another point in favor of DHEA supplementation. I tested dhea on the 4:1 protocol, but I experienced symptoms of high e2. For me it is very noticeable, because as I already had serotonin syndrome, I understand well when the symptoms start, mainly strong anxiety and mental confusion. Already when the e2 decreases too much immediately I feel dry joints (something unusual on Deca), cracking and decreased libido.
I read your text talking about e2 at 17, I want to try to keep it in that lower range using only dhea. I will titrate the dose and do only the estradiol test in 1 month.

 

[Nfinkelstein]

The most common dose of the 4:1 protocol is 200mg Deca / 50mg Testosterone. They do higher doses in bulk, between 400 and 800mg. But my intent is HRT only.
Since I over-aromatize even with small doses, I always wanted to try the Deca Only protocol without testosterone but supplementing with DHEA. I want to see if this dhea pulse would give me lower e2 levels and some improvement in other parameters. Since starting TRT, my s-dhea has always come back very low, so another point in favor of DHEA supplementation. I tested dhea on the 4:1 protocol, but I experienced symptoms of high e2. For me it is very noticeable, because as I already had serotonin syndrome, I understand well when the symptoms start, mainly strong anxiety and mental confusion. Already when the e2 decreases too much immediately I feel dry joints (something unusual on Deca), cracking and decreased libido.
I read your text talking about e2 at 17, I want to try to keep it in that lower range using only dhea. I will titrate the dose and do only the estradiol test in 1 month.

Robby Robinson says he never took test, only deca cycled off and on with primo (from facebook post quote of his) "BACK IN THE DAY WE WERE ALL CONTROLLED: DECA EVERY 2 WEEKS, IN-BETWEEN PRIMO-DEPOT, CALCIUM AND B-12 – INTRAVENOUS, FOR 90 DAYS. THE FIRST INJECTION OF DECA STAYS IN YOUR SYSTEM FOR 18 MONTHS. I ROTATED BETWEEN THESE 3 ITEMS DURING MY 27 YEAR CAREER AND I WAS SMART - LOW DOSAGES, TIMED - EVERY TWO WKS.
MY CYCLES ONLY LASTED 8 WEEKS AS A PRO- BODYBUILDER. I HAVE NEVER USED GH, INSULIN OR TESTOSTERONE."

Deca is excellent imo and so is primobolan. Difficulty sourcing primo. The earlier comment on this thread someone made about deca-**ck is I think erroneous --- it is not something I personally have experienced or know anyone who has.

 

[Gûs80]

Robby Robinson says he never took test, only deca cycled off and on with primo (from facebook post quote of his) "BACK IN THE DAY WE WERE ALL CONTROLLED: DECA EVERY 2 WEEKS, IN-BETWEEN PRIMO-DEPOT, CALCIUM AND B-12 – INTRAVENOUS, FOR 90 DAYS. THE FIRST INJECTION OF DECA STAYS IN YOUR SYSTEM FOR 18 MONTHS. I ROTATED BETWEEN THESE 3 ITEMS DURING MY 27 YEAR CAREER AND I WAS SMART - LOW DOSAGES, TIMED - EVERY TWO WKS.
MY CYCLES ONLY LASTED 8 WEEKS AS A PRO- BODYBUILDER. I HAVE NEVER USED GH, INSULIN OR TESTOSTERONE."

Deca is excellent imo and so is primobolan. Difficulty sourcing primo. The earlier comment on this thread someone made about deca-**ck is I think erroneous --- it is not something I personally have experienced or know anyone who has.

It's amazing the longevity and how Robby managed to maintain his body after 70. Bodybuilders of his day also used Deca with Dbol, since they knew that Deca did not aromatize. I have read many reports of Deca + Primo by Frank Zane. In the 70's they were very afraid of using Testosterone, as AI's did not exist yet.
Mike Mentzer also claimed that he used 400mg of nandrolone every 2 weeks. But several later reports belie the low doses claimed by these athletes.
I have never used Primo, as it is highly counterfeited in Brazil. But I already tested it with a little Masteron. The problem with nandrolone dht derivatives is that it will clear e2 even faster.
Do you make Deca Only?

What's your protocol, doses, frequency?

How did you keep your e2 on deca only?

 

[Nfinkelstein]

It's amazing the longevity and how Robby managed to maintain his body after 70. Bodybuilders of his day also used Deca with Dbol, since they knew that Deca did not aromatize. I have read many reports of Deca + Primo by Frank Zane. In the 70's they were very afraid of using Testosterone, as AI's did not exist yet.
Mike Mentzer also claimed that he used 400mg of nandrolone every 2 weeks. But several later reports belie the low doses claimed by these athletes.
I have never used Primo, as it is highly counterfeited in Brazil. But I already tested it with a little Masteron. The problem with nandrolone dht derivatives is that it will clear e2 even faster.
Do you make Deca Only?

What's your protocol, doses, frequency?

How did you keep your e2 on deca only?

In the past I have used deca stacked with test. Also stacked primo with test. Never tried them alone but would consider doing so. I would say I prefer primo over deca but they are both good drugs imo. I kept the dose sensible, weekly, and kept the cycles short. I am thankful Robby is sharing this info, its helpful and encouraging.

 

[Highserotonin90]

Sì, tra 2 o 3 mesi avrò nuovi esami. Il deca supprime il testosterone, ma in alcuni tipi di test appare come testosterone, una seconda del metodo.

Includerò anche insulina, glucosio nel sangue, homa-ir, prolattina, lipidogramma ed emocromo. Da quando ho sempre avuto altri ematocriti con TRT e altri medici affermano che l'impatto del nandrolone su questo marcatore è minimo.

Ho manipolato una formula b100 e ho usato il rossore di niacina con un focus su lipidi e fegato. Anche le foto di drammamina per dormitorio, che è stata la causa principale dell'ipogonadismo che ho sviluppato in giovane età.

Ho iniziato questa settimana con 200 mg di nandrolone + 25 mg di DHEA eod. Quindi, per favore, un giorno elevato, si considera un uomo con produzione di testosterone conservato, ma nel mio caso, Deca sopprime completamente l'asse, quindi immagino che Sarebbe necessaria una dose di leggermente più alta.

Cosa ne pensi di questa dose? Hai visto studi dose-risposta di dhea negli uomini?

@Nfinkelstein Did you use something to safeguard the HPTA axis recovery or did you let everything recover over time?

 

[golder]

I'm on topical/transcortal TRT cream and would love to add in some low dose deca. Has anyone done this here or does anyone have any expertise and could help me with sensible starting doses/half life etc. The 18month comment from Robbinson has thrown me off a little bit here.

 

[Gûs80]

I'm on topical/transcortal TRT cream and would love to add in some low dose deca. Has anyone done this here or does anyone have any expertise and could help me with sensible starting doses/half life etc. The 18month comment from Robbinson has thrown me off a little bit here.

If you're going to keep trt, there's no need to worry about deleting Deca. And even so, I have a competitive bodybuilder friend who does short cycles of 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off, never did TPC, and always did Deca Base, because of the low side effects.

I've never seen anyone who has done it with topical testosterone, but I believe the logic is the same:
- if you are a fast metabolizer, the type that needs higher doses of testosterone and tends to have low e2, use small doses of Deca. 50mg is the dose they usually use to improve joints.

- if you are a slow metabolizer, who get high e2 levels even on conservative trt doses, you may benefit from increased Deca and decreased testosterone, but I can't tell you about topical testosterone doses. 200mg of Deca in this case is an excellent dose.

As I said earlier, I can't handle 250mg of testosterone, but nandrolone I've tested up to 800mg and it felt great. But I've read several reports of men who are the opposite, they can increase testosterone above 500mg but can't support 200mg of Deca. And in between, men who do well with both without too many side effects, I believe most professional bodybuilders fall into this category.

That is, just testing to find out. Start with the lowest dose 25 to 50mg/week.

And if possible come back to report. I am very interested in seeing results from men on Deca.