Wider Face After Using Vitamin K?

baccheion

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Jun 25, 2017
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So if i take D lowers vitamin K in blood since it needs to use it? or is it other way around? I did not understand. I cannot take blood test yet since it might be expensive and i do not have money yet
Vitamin D increases the need for vitamin K and magnesium. Vitamin K doesn't increase the need for vitamin D. Vitamin D is taken to maintain a higher serum level. For the calculator, assume it's currently 0 ng/mL.
 

chanlaw

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Jun 4, 2018
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Vitamin D increases the need for vitamin K and magnesium. Vitamin K doesn't increase the need for vitamin D. Vitamin D is taken to maintain a higher serum level. For the calculator, assume it's currently 0 ng/mL.
I see thanks. I will look into magnesium supplement as well and find food sources.
 

Tometek

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Jul 7, 2019
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I started my Vitamin K2 journey in June 2017 after a 3 week vacation in Spain. I was so impressed with the attractiveness of Spaniards compared to people in the USA. The trip left me wondering if there was anything I could do to improve my own looks. So when I returned home, I started my researching on the internet. At first it was directionless and vague - google searches like "Why are Spanish people so attractive?". Gradually, I began to develop a working knowledge of what makes people attractive: facial bones. I remembered the robust cheekbones and sturdy jawlines of the Spaniards and I knew I was on the right track. I needed to build my facial bones, but how? An old post on here about Vitamin K2 gave me a path to try and I decided to go with it.

From June 2017 to today, I've taken:

3 softgels of Life Extension Vitamin K2 MK4 MK7
10,000 IU of Vitamin D3
2 Cups of 100% grassfed Whole Milk

Every single day.

The zygomatic arch portion of my cheekbone has widened dramatically. Before I started VitaminK2, if I put my finger where my arch runs, I'd feel nothing but muscle. Now it's a protrusive bone that you can see visually at a 3/4 angle and from straight on. My undereye area went from saggy lower eyelids and dark circles to a full look with straight lower eye lids. That said, I haven't had any bone projection in terms of forward growth of the zygomatic body. My cheek area has hollowed out. I had a rounded jawline before k2. Now the skin on my jawline is extremely tight and people tell me that I have an incredibly sharp jawline.

I would recommend vitamin k2 to anybody. It 100% changed my life.
 

baccheion

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Jun 25, 2017
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I started my Vitamin K2 journey in June 2017 after a 3 week vacation in Spain. I was so impressed with the attractiveness of Spaniards compared to people in the USA. The trip left me wondering if there was anything I could do to improve my own looks. So when I returned home, I started my researching on the internet. At first it was directionless and vague - google searches like "Why are Spanish people so attractive?". Gradually, I began to develop a working knowledge of what makes people attractive: facial bones. I remembered the robust cheekbones and sturdy jawlines of the Spaniards and I knew I was on the right track. I needed to build my facial bones, but how? An old post on here about Vitamin K2 gave me a path to try and I decided to go with it.

From June 2017 to today, I've taken:

3 softgels of Life Extension Vitamin K2 MK4 MK7
10,000 IU of Vitamin D3
2 Cups of 100% grassfed Whole Milk

Every single day.

The zygomatic arch portion of my cheekbone has widened dramatically. Before I started VitaminK2, if I put my finger where my arch runs, I'd feel nothing but muscle. Now it's a protrusive bone that you can see visually at a 3/4 angle and from straight on. My undereye area went from saggy lower eyelids and dark circles to a full look with straight lower eye lids. That said, I haven't had any bone projection in terms of forward growth of the zygomatic body. My cheek area has hollowed out. I had a rounded jawline before k2. Now the skin on my jawline is extremely tight and people tell me that I have an incredibly sharp jawline.

I would recommend vitamin k2 to anybody. It 100% changed my life.
Where's the before/after picture? Did you take the Super K pills all at once?
 

Elkman

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Aug 12, 2019
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Every single day.

The zygomatic arch portion of my cheekbone has widened dramatically. Before I started VitaminK2, if I put my finger where my arch runs, I'd feel nothing but muscle. Now it's a protrusive bone that you can see visually at a 3/4 angle and from straight on. My undereye area went from saggy lower eyelids and dark circles to a full look with straight lower eye lids. That said, I haven't had any bone projection in terms of forward growth of the zygomatic body. My cheek area has hollowed out. I had a rounded jawline before k2. Now the skin on my jawline is extremely tight and people tell me that I have an incredibly sharp jawline.

I would recommend vitamin k2 to anybody. It 100% changed my life.

Does anyone else think that the effects people notice from Vitamin K are nothing more than facial fat loss, water retention/ edema dissipation?

I mean firstly Vitamin K is pro-metabolic, revving up the metabolism. Secondly it’s pro-Androgenic/ anti-estrogen; it raises androgens and flushes out water/ estrogen.

When you read accounts of increased bone growth, you never hear about anterior projection of the bone. If the perceived growth is the result of calcification of facial bones, why would the vitamin K only be depositing the calcium on the lateral edges of bones? Lol. Wouldn’t it distribute the calcium all over?

I mean take the guy above ^. He claims before when he touched his zygote he felt nothing but “muscle”. Now he feels “bone.” Well, if you’re fat in the face, it’s common sense why you would SEE and FEEL less bone before losing the fat and/or water retention than AFTER.

For example, pregnenolone gives me a face lift effect. As Ray Peat has said, this may be because he causes a contraction of the facial tissues like smooth muscles, which tightens them up. He says the pregnenolone also expels excess water and estrogen from the cells. As a result, the tightened facial skin around my cheekbone area makes my cheekbones look wider and more visible. That’s just because the soft tissue has been pulled higher up over the cheekbone instead of sagging below it, which covers it up.

I would thus not conclude that “pregnenolone widened my face.” It’s clearly all visual distortion.

Continuing with the anecdote above , he says his undereyelids went from saggy to a straight line, that he gained “hollow cheeks” and his previous rounded jawline now has tightened skin around it - this can all be 100% directly attributed to facial skin tightening and fat/ water dissipation.

Literally I haven’t read an account where I’m positive the person understands the difference between actual bone mass widening and fat loss/ skin tightening, which obviously makes the bones appear more prominent.

Can somebody convince me otherwise?
 
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Tometek

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Jul 7, 2019
Messages
5
Does anyone else think that the effects people notice from Vitamin K are nothing more than facial fat loss, water retention/ edema dissipation?

I mean firstly Vitamin K is pro-metabolic, revving up the metabolism. Secondly it’s pro-Androgenic/ anti-estrogen; it raises androgens and flushes out water/ estrogen.

When you read accounts of increased bone growth, you never hear about anterior projection of the bone. If the perceived growth is the result of calcification of facial bones, why would the vitamin K only be depositing the calcium on the lateral edges of bones? Lol. Wouldn’t it distribute the calcium all over?

I mean take the guy above ^. He claims before when he touched his zygote he felt nothing but “muscle”. Now he feels “bone.” Well, if you’re fat in the face, it’s common sense why you would SEE and FEEL less bone before losing the fat and/or water retention than AFTER.

For example, pregnenolone gives me a face lift effect. As Ray Peat has said, this may be because he causes a contraction of the facial tissues like smooth muscles, which tightens them up. He says the pregnenolone also expels excess water and estrogen from the cells. As a result, the tightened facial skin around my cheekbone area makes my cheekbones look wider and more visible. That’s just because the soft tissue has been pulled higher up over the cheekbone instead of sagging below it, which covers it up.

I would thus not conclude that “pregnenolone widened my face.” It’s clearly all visual distortion.

Continuing with the anecdote above , he says his undereyelids went from saggy to a straight line, that he gained “hollow cheeks” and his previous rounded jawline now has tightened skin around it - this can all be 100% directly attributed to facial skin tightening and fat/ water dissipation.

Literally I haven’t read an account where I’m positive the person understands the difference between actual bone mass widening and fat loss/ skin tightening, which obviously makes the bones appear more prominent.

Can somebody convince me otherwise?


But I've never been "fat of the face", as you put it. I'm a competitive long distance runner for 10 years and I've been extremely lean my entire life, especially my face. My face was narrow at the cheekbones and narrow at the jaw. I didn't have the pitched hollow cheeks despite being sub-10% body fat, it was just flat. Back then I touched my arch, it wasn't even really an "arch". I couldn't feel a bone there, only maester muscle. When I started taking supplements, I remember putting my finger to where my arch was and feeling a jagged bone there. Over the years this jagged bone eventually started getting smoother and sticking out. I guess there is a possibility my maseter muscle somehow shrunk, but I don't think that's the case.

I won't deny the water retention effect. That's definitely a factor in bone prominence.

This reminds me that I forgot to mention how much my brow bone changed, particularly my glabella. It thickened and now I have this deep notch that separates my glabella and the bridge of my nose. Looks almost neanderthal if I look at it for too long in the mirror.
 

Elkman

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Messages
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But I've never been "fat of the face", as you put it. I'm a competitive long distance runner for 10 years and I've been extremely lean my entire life, especially my face. My face was narrow at the cheekbones and narrow at the jaw. I didn't have the pitched hollow cheeks despite being sub-10% body fat, it was just flat. Back then I touched my arch, it wasn't even really an "arch". I couldn't feel a bone there, only maester muscle. When I started taking supplements, I remember putting my finger to where my arch was and feeling a jagged bone there. Over the years this jagged bone eventually started getting smoother and sticking out. I guess there is a possibility my maseter muscle somehow shrunk, but I don't think that's the case.

I won't deny the water retention effect. That's definitely a factor in bone prominence.

This reminds me that I forgot to mention how much my brow bone changed, particularly my glabella. It thickened and now I have this deep notch that separates my glabella and the bridge of my nose. Looks almost neanderthal if I look at it for too long in the mirror.

How old are you? I also have a fairly decent brow ridge, but that growth came after my twenties. I certainly didn’t notice it in highschool, probably during the latter college years. Possible the Vitamin K2 was just a coincidence?

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt since after your message above I don’t think you’d go through such deep mental gymnastics to convince yourself that something is real when it’s not, so maybe you did experience bone growth. And that’s great. I hope to experience the same, but I’m getting hair shedding with the high dose MK4.

FWIW I ran into a dentist at work this past week. We got to talking and he told me how the male jaw develops up until 25, maybe older; female jaw growth stops around late teens/ early twenties.

It’s wholly possible you’ve just gone through your final transformation into a man that had nothing to do with vitamin K shunting calcium to your ridges. It may have just been your genetic expression unfolding in its final phase.

It’s also good to remember that bone is made up primarily of protein; I think it’s something like 95% of your actual bone is protein (collagen). Calcium is more for bone density (hardening), which is not something that’s typically observable externally. Like AFAIK it’s the collagen tissue that make up the size of the bone, and then the calcium comes along and hardens up however much collagen is there, forming bone. This is why I’m still skeptical that vitamin K2 could actually manufacture bigger bones. The bigness of bones seems to me more related to the total amount/ mass/ and size of collagen tissue; the calcium just hardens that soft tissue ( big or small), but doesn’t make it bigger, per say. Like you could take two objects that are equal in size but different in the hardness of their material - it’s the material that determines the size, the hardness is something else entirely. I could be wrong !

But I’m certainly open minded and will give it a chance. My face/ jaw is also very narrow so I hope it works.
 
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Tometek

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Messages
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How old are you? I also have a fairly decent brow ridge, but that growth came after my twenties. I certainly didn’t notice it in highschool, probably during the latter college years. Possible the Vitamin K2 was just a coincidence?

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt since after your message above I don’t think you’d go through such deep mental gymnastics to convince yourself that something is real when it’s not, so maybe you did experience bone growth. And that’s great. I hope to experience the same, but I’m getting hair shedding with the high dose MK4.

FWIW I ran into a dentist at work this past week. We got to talking and he told me how the male jaw develops up until 25, maybe older; female jaw growth stops around late teens/ early twenties.

It’s wholly possible you’ve just gone through your final transformation into a man that had nothing to do with vitamin K shunting calcium to your ridges. It may have just been your genetic expression unfolding in its final phase.

It’s also good to remember that bone is made up primarily of protein; I think it’s something like 95% of your actual bone is protein (collagen). Calcium is more for bone density (hardening), which is not something that’s typically observable externally. Like AFAIK it’s the collagen tissue that make up the size of the bone, and then the calcium comes along and hardens up however much collagen is there, forming bone. This is why I’m still skeptical that vitamin K2 could actually manufacture bigger bones. The bigness of bones seems to me more related to the total amount/ mass/ and size of collagen tissue; the calcium just hardens that soft tissue ( big or small), but doesn’t make it bigger, per say. Like you could take two objects that are equal in size but different in the hardness of their material - it’s the material that determines the size, the hardness is something else entirely. I could be wrong !

But I’m certainly open minded and will give it a chance. My face/ jaw is also very narrow so I hope it works.

I'm 29 years old. If my bones did grow, it all would've occurred between 27-29 years of age. Funny you bring up high dose Mk4, because earlier this week I bought the Relentless Improvement MK4 15mg capsules to see if it will increase my rate of my bone growth. Previously I've been taking the Life Extension brand Super K with Advanced K2 complex. I haven't noticed any hair shedding yet but I've only been taking it for 4 days now. If I get that as a side effect I will definitely be posting here.

My main gripe about all this Vitamin K2 supplementation is that despite all my perceived results in my zygomatic arch, brow bone, jaw line - there's been no growth in the anterior part of my cheek bone. But despite not having a nice foundation of bone sticking out from under my eye, it still seems like my sunken eye issues have resolved. I had a gaunt face and so my lower eyelids drooped down, people always would comment about how tired I looked. Now it seems the skin is lifted and a healthy color. My lower eyelid which used to have a 'U' shape is now a straight line. If it's not a change in bone, I'm not sure what it could be. Perhaps the bone grew enough to make a difference but not enough to project out of my skin?

You bring up an interesting point about the collagen. I wonder if that could be the missing piece for the Vitamin K question.
 

Alpha

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Messages
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I've been taking MK-4 15mg once to twice a week for almost 2 years now. My face is already wide, I have a high fWHR. I personally didn't notice anything change in that time frame. I also take 50k vitamin D and magnesium, while drinking a moderate amount of milk.

I think vitamin K helps those deficient to reach their potential.
 

Elkman

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Messages
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My main gripe about all this Vitamin K2 supplementation is that despite all my perceived results in my zygomatic arch, brow bone, jaw line - there's been no growth in the anterior part of my cheek bone. But despite not having a nice foundation of bone sticking out from under my eye, it still seems like my sunken eye issues have resolved. I had a gaunt face and so my lower eyelids drooped down, people always would comment about how tired I looked. Now it seems the skin is lifted and a healthy color. My lower eyelid which used to have a 'U' shape is now a straight line. If it's not a change in bone, I'm not sure what it could be. Perhaps the bone grew enough to make a difference but not enough to project out of my skin?

I don’t know. Might have something to do with “the skin is lifted and a healthy colour.” Do you taken any other supplements like pregnenolone?

You bring up an interesting point about the collagen. I wonder if that could be the missing piece for the Vitamin K question.

Well it’s likely not that simple. Your eyeballs are also made of collagen. Does that mean taking some extra collagen or protein power is going to grow your eyeballs in adulthood? Probably not, your eyes stop growing at 12 yo. So since we continue eating protein/ collagen past the age of 12 and our eyes don’t get indefinitely larger, it means your body doesn’t just make bigger and better organs once your done growing simply because you feed it extra protein. Once the genes turn off the growth signals, it’s done.

Probably same thing with bones. Extra protein or collagen past a certain age is not going to do anything because your genes have shut off growth signals, which are probably a lot more complicated than the basic hormones like testosterone and IGF-1. So it’s not as simple as taking those hormones, either. There could be genetic signals for growth that we haven’t even discovered yet.

I mean, it doesn’t hurt to try it though.
 

Elkman

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I think vitamin K helps those deficient to reach their potential.

The problem with that idea is that calcium doesn’t build bigger bones, it just hardens the existing bones you have.

I mean I guess theoretically you can form hardened, calcified notches on your zygotes that are visible beneath the skin, but there’s no guarantee that would look desirable or even symmetrical/ harmonious.
My Vitamin K2 Journey

Here's some progress photos. I know they aren't scientific or anything but it's the best I have.

It’s hard to say. You can use the nose height as a constant relative measure to compare the before/ afters and see if your face indeed did get wider.

I don’t think your jaw got wider at all but again, would need to measure.

I do see a sharper midface, and your cheeks do stick out more, but again that could be fat loss or a face lift effect from other dietary changes/ supplements.

I certainly see what you mean about the eyelids. If you’re not squinting in the afters and it’s truly your new “relaxed” facial expression, it sure is interesting and could be from many things but not bone growth.

What other supplements have you been on?
 

BigChad

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Jun 28, 2019
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I've been taking MK-4 15mg once to twice a week for almost 2 years now. My face is already wide, I have a high fWHR. I personally didn't notice anything change in that time frame. I also take 50k vitamin D and magnesium, while drinking a moderate amount of milk.

I think vitamin K helps those deficient to reach their potential.

50,000 iu d3 a day? How long have you been doing this. What magnesium dosage. Isn't that a, dangerous dosage.why not do 10k iu d3
 

BigChad

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The problem with that idea is that calcium doesn’t build bigger bones, it just hardens the existing bones you have.

I mean I guess theoretically you can form hardened, calcified notches on your zygotes that are visible beneath the skin, but there’s no guarantee that would look desirable or even symmetrical/ harmonious.


It’s hard to say. You can use the nose height as a constant relative measure to compare the before/ afters and see if your face indeed did get wider.

I don’t think your jaw got wider at all but again, would need to measure.

I do see a sharper midface, and your cheeks do stick out more, but again that could be fat loss or a face lift effect from other dietary changes/ supplements.

I certainly see what you mean about the eyelids. If you’re not squinting in the afters and it’s truly your new “relaxed” facial expression, it sure is interesting and could be from many things but not bone growth.

What other supplements have you been on?

How muck mk4 did you get hair shedding on.
You have low thyroid? Autoimmune?
 

Tometek

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Jul 7, 2019
Messages
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The problem with that idea is that calcium doesn’t build bigger bones, it just hardens the existing bones you have.

I mean I guess theoretically you can form hardened, calcified notches on your zygotes that are visible beneath the skin, but there’s no guarantee that would look desirable or even symmetrical/ harmonious.


It’s hard to say. You can use the nose height as a constant relative measure to compare the before/ afters and see if your face indeed did get wider.

I don’t think your jaw got wider at all but again, would need to measure.

I do see a sharper midface, and your cheeks do stick out more, but again that could be fat loss or a face lift effect from other dietary changes/ supplements.

I certainly see what you mean about the eyelids. If you’re not squinting in the afters and it’s truly your new “relaxed” facial expression, it sure is interesting and could be from many things but not bone growth.

What other supplements have you been on?

I've used no other supplements.
 

GreekDemiGod

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Romania
Well this all began as a hairloss reversal protocol. Probably still 30,000 IU Vit D, for about a year. Now that you mention the relentless and mk-4, I’ll probably switch to that K supplement
Come to think about it..
About 2-3 months ago, I started taking 5000 IU of D3 almost daily, and in some days, even 10000 IU.
About the same time, bought a bottle of K2 (MK4, Now Foods, 0.1 mg). This is very low dose compared to what you guys were taking, can't find higher doses in my country.

Have seen no increase in my FWHR (Facial Width to Height Ratio) and no changes in my jawline. Even though I was Mewing this whole time. (still struggle with making mewing a conscious habit).
What did happen, and I'm sure it's no coincidence, it completely stopped my hairloss. For the past 2-3 months, when taking a shower, I don't see any hair follicles falling.
Started 'peating' about a month ago, now I'm seeing new baby hairs growing at the top of my forehead and around my temples :):

To stay on the topic, I truly believe that megadosing K2 should be done in combination with Mewing (tongue posture).
 
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