Wider Face After Using Vitamin K?

[baccheion]

@baccheion

I did not realize Mk-4 is cheaper. Mk-7 is natural, and seems to have more staying power and bone power.
I'm also going to use Magnesium Oil topically. Thanks for the Vitamin A suggestion.
I was following this protocol for hairloss: Hair loss from DHT/Steroids? Think again...very interesting topic...
My jaw is decently wide, but I've noticed my head is also elongated, which is unsightly. I actually wasn't supplementing for a wider jaw, but I am a believer.

The shorter (serum) half-life is the reason it's taken 3x/day. Kuinone is said to require only 1x/day administration, as it's absorbed steadily into the body over many hours.

MK-7 is said to have stronger action on bone due to it's longer serum half-life. On the other hand, MK-4's face-widening effect isn't likely due to its direct actions. That is, it may be more related to IGF-1.

 

[Arrade]

Interesting. My most recent labs at an endo showed my IGF-1 above normal ranges (before any supplementation). She seems to think it may cause some hypothyroidism (which I'm not sure why, one would think its beneficial).
For money purposes I may switch to Mk4, I'm still thinking Mk-7 sounds more effective.
Is there one article that explains your ratios for Vitamin D,A, and K? Or is that your own accumulated knowledge?
Thanks for your input so far.

 

[baccheion]

Interesting. My most recent labs at an endo showed my IGF-1 above normal ranges (before any supplementation). She seems to think it may cause some hypothyroidism (which I'm not sure why, one would think its beneficial).
For money purposes I may switch to Mk4, I'm still thinking Mk-7 sounds more effective.
Is there one article that explains your ratios for Vitamin D,A, and K? Or is that your own accumulated knowledge?
Thanks for your input so far.

Accumulated knowledge, I suppose. It's not just IGF-1 (serum levels), it's IGF-1 activity in the area you want to experience growth. There is something around about injecting IGF-1 LR3 into the mandibular to encourage growth and about higher amounts of injected HGH (10x typical serum levels) resulting in the same. I'm not sure about the safety of either approach.

 

[Arrade]

Lol that does not sounds very safe. They might catch a goiter.
Since I'm already supplementing K, I might as well strive to get the jaw effects. I also think if people want larger jaws they should supplement creatine and do heavy compound lifts. Especially squats/deadlifts, the larger the muscle the more gh circulating in the system.

 

[Arrade]

If you guys really want an idol for jaw gains... Jeff Hardy

... or basically any wwe champ

 

[Prosper]

Mk-7 is natural

They are all "natural". It's the same compound regardless of whether it was synthesized in a lab or in your gut. mk-4 and mk-7 have different biological purposes. Reports on osteoporosis treatment / bone mass increase come from mk4.

 

[Arrade]

Did no one read the links I’ve posted. I’m on my phone but some aren’t natural, they just act bio-identical

 

[Prosper]

Bio-identicality is the only thing that should matter. Naturality is a fallacy. I have read all the links years ago. There is a lot of poor information regarding K2.

 

[johnwester130]

lots of studies here

https://www.drstevenlin.com/vitamin-k2-deficiency-effects/

 

[Arrade]

lots of studies here

https://www.drstevenlin.com/vitamin-k2-deficiency-effects/

Seems they were discussing mk4 and testoterone levels.
This has already been discussed in the link i posted,
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource/
And I believe Chris Masterjohn is supported by Ray Peat, who states mk7 is better for bone health

 

[baccheion]

Seems they were discussing mk4 and testoterone levels.
This has already been discussed in the link i posted,
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource/
And I believe Chris Masterjohn is supported by Ray Peat, who states mk7 is better for bone health

As I said, bone health (density/quality) is a lot different from bone remodeling/transformation. The latter has more to do with hormonal actions (being increased in desired areas) by MK-4.

 

[Arrade]

As I said, bone health (density/quality) is a lot different from bone remodeling/transformation. The latter has more to do with hormonal actions (being increased in desired areas) by MK-4.

As I said, bone health (density/quality) is a lot different from bone remodeling/transformation. The latter has more to do with hormonal actions (being increased in desired areas) by MK-4.

ah ok. After this mk7 runs out guess I’ll get the mk4

 

[baccheion]

ah ok. After this mk7 runs out guess I’ll get the mk4

While MK-4 is the main ingredient, it's been suggested 360 mcg MK-7 is preferred/optimal for someone weighing 81 kg. Relentless Improvement MK-4 + MK-7 is a nice mix, as it provides 90 mg MK-4 and 360 mcg MK-7 across 6 pills (two 3x/day). If using Kuinone, you could either add 360 mcg MK-7 from another source, or not bother.

 

[Arrade]

While MK-4 is the main ingredient, it's been suggested 360 mcg MK-7 is preferred/optimal for someone weighing 81 kg. Relentless Improvement MK-4 + MK-7 is a nice mix, as it provides 90 mg MK-4 and 360 mcg MK-7 across 6 pills (two 3x/day). If using Kuinone, you could either add 360 mcg MK-7 from another source, or not bother.

Man, Relentless sounds perf. Putting it on my to buy list, thanks :)

 

[baccheion]

Man, Relentless sounds perf. Putting it on my to buy list, thanks :)

How much vitamin D are you now planning to take and for how long? What else will you be taking?

 

[Arrade]

How much vitamin D are you now planning to take and for how long? What else will you be taking?

Well this all began as a hairloss reversal protocol. Probably still 30,000 IU Vit D, for about a year. Now that you mention the relentless and mk-4, I’ll probably switch to that K supplement
I’ll also take Vitamin A, there is not a lot of low dose A, so i was thinking of using 10,000 Iu like twice a week.
I usually use curcumin but see no point with the K

 

[baccheion]

Well this all began as a hairloss reversal protocol. Probably still 30,000 IU Vit D, for about a year. Now that you mention the relentless and mk-4, I’ll probably switch to that K supplement
I’ll also take Vitamin A, there is not a lot of low dose A, so i was thinking of using 10,000 Iu like twice a week.
I usually use curcumin but see no point with the K

Given your weight, I'd say at least 40,000 IU vitamin D3 (ie. 30,000 IU/day assumes a weight of 154 lbs).

For balding, you can look into MSM (minimum 10g/day), vitamin C, and MSM lotion. MSM:C 4:1. And 500-1000 mcg molybdenum to support MSM. And silicon (750-1500 mg bamboo extract or 12-24 mg monomethylsilanetriol).

And maybe a multivitamin as a buffer against any missing nutrients. Thorne 2/day, for example, which would also provide some vitamin A. There's also Life Extension Two-per-day. I'd normally recommend AOR Ortho-Core, but it contains 300 mg calcium (may not be a good idea given the amount of vitamin D being taken).

 

[Arrade]

Given your weight, I'd say at least 40,000 IU vitamin D3 (ie. 30,000 IU/day assumes a weight of 154 lbs).

For balding, you can look into MSM (minimum 10g/day), vitamin C, and MSM lotion. MSM:C 4:1. And 500-1000 mcg molybdenum to support MSM. And silicon (750-1500 mg bamboo extract or 12-24 mg monomethylsilanetriol).

Ok, I will up the dose for the D3. My apologies, I was searching around and apparently a longer bio life for Mk7 is a bad thing. You all were right about Mk4 being best Calcium Deposits In Arteries - Inspire
Do you suggest those on top of what I’m using? I’m learning so much about vitamins

 

[baccheion]

Ok, I will up the dose for the D3. My apologies, I was searching around and apparently a longer bio life for Mk7 is a bad thing. You all were right about Mk4 being best Calcium Deposits In Arteries - Inspire
Do you suggest those on top of what I’m using? I’m learning so much about vitamins

Yea. MSM (topically + orally) is said to sometimes reverse balding. I'm not sure if it's true, but it's something to research/look-into.

 

[Ahmed]

hello, does anyone have a before and after pics ? i can't see the attached files to this thread because i'm a new member.