Wide Awake With Shakes When Lying Down To Sleep

tsranga

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Feb 8, 2019
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I was on mirtazapine 7.5 and then 3.75 for 18 months prescribed mainly for sleep anxiety and losing weight, related to IBS flareup after I quit a 30 year nicotine habit in June 2017.

My IBS has improved dramatically in the last 2 months since I started diaphragmatic breathing, and going off gluten, sugar and alcohol. I have also been working on my vagal tone, which seems to help with managing anxiety and bloat.

I came off mirtazapine in Feb 2019 since it wasn't helping me sleep as before (getting harder to fall asleep). Since then, my sleep has been erratic - some days I can't sleep for a couple of hours (until 1am), other days I wake up early (3-5am). Over the past week, I consistently wake up at 5:30am and average about 5 hours, and doesn't affect my functioning.

I have a wierd problem on some nights - every time I lie down to sleep, I feel a lot of heat behind the neck, and as I drift off to sleep, I wake up wide awake with body shaking. I did have occasional nights with mirtazapine with similar symptoms without the shaking.

Interestingly, I can fall asleep without any symptoms in the living room couch.

I am wondering if I am still dealing with some ptsd given that I had a panic attack 10 years back that triggered the sleep anxiety, which came back in a milder form as anxiety when I quit smoking.

Right now, I am thinking of one or more of the following options -

1. Supplements (magnesium / others)
2. Anti-histamine / GABA
3. Sleep hypnosis / EMDR therapy to get past any subconscious anxiety.
4. Treat for sibo (going off sugars and alcohol really seemed to help bloating, along with breathing) assuming a gut-brain connection

Thoughts / suggestion?
 

cjm

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How about a hefty dose of glycine, i.e., 5 grams in a glass of water? I have had good results with even higher doses, 10 grams at a time, 3-4 times a day, and I experience similar symptoms to what you describe, especially shaking behind the head, which makes it difficult to concentrate during the day. For me, the glycine is acting as a muscle relaxer and has let me dream vividly but sleep soundly at night. I couldn't tell you the last time I was satisfied after sleeping.

Also, since mirtazapine is an anti-histamine, maybe you could give cyproheptadine a try as well. Your IBS would further indicate cypro as a viable option. The sedative effects stopped me from using it for more than a day at a time, but those effects do indeed fade after a few days as some forum members have attested.
 
D

danishispsychic

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I would try whole milk mixed with gelatin/collagen, and tart cherry juice concentrate and a little salt . I would also try moving all the furniture in your room around and/ or sleeping on the floor of your room and when that works, moving on to the bed. I would also try magnesium spray after a hot shower bath and even better epsom salt bath too. There is a product called Kleri Tea from Dr. Natura that also will not only knock you out, calm you down but detox. Maybe try a weak brewed version.
 

jzeno

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Nov 20, 2017
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543
@tsranga

Age? What do you eat every day? I see you're male.

Cronometer.com

Full Page Screen Capture Chrome Extension to share full-page screen shots (Cronometer can be a long web page and without an extension like this, requires several little screenshots)

This is an example for me on Tuesday 3/5/2019:

screencapture-cronometer-2019-03-07-11_20_45.png

I think sharing that would give everyone a much better understanding of what's going on then just giving information about one supplement you're taking and some others you're thinking about taking. That stuff seems significantly less important to me than what you eat on a daily basis.

--

For the Panic, PTSD, Depression, Traumatic life events, I recommend EMDR:

History, Discovery, Testimony by Founder and early patients


Prominent figure in the field today


Research--there's quite a bit on PubMed, just search EMDR, here's a few. It's effective for trauma, PTSD, psychosis, depression and even physical symptoms such as acne from stress, non-specific, chronic "back pain"
The Use of Eye-Movement Desensitization Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy in Treating Post-traumatic Stress Disorder-A Systematic Narrative Review. - PubMed - NCBI
Treating trauma in psychosis with EMDR: a pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI
The Role of Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy in Medicine: Addressing the Psychological and Physical Symptoms Stemming from Adverse Life Experiences
Effects of eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) on non-specific chronic back pain: a randomized controlled trial with additional ex... - PubMed - NCBI
Use of eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) in the treatment of dermatologic disorders. - PubMed - NCBI

Community to discuss and learn more
EMDR Therapy
How I use self-administered EMDR at home : EMDR

--

Otherwise, without knowing what you eat on a daily basis, I wouldn't know if you're getting too much or too little salt, Potassium intake, Magnesium, starches, protein, possible allergens, etc. etc. All of that could be having a huge impact and more than any supplement and/or med you might be taking

All the best
 
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tsranga

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screencapture-cronometer-2019-03-07-14_28_02.png
Thanks for all the responses.

Update from the last two days -

Working on my breathing and mindfulness helped me get some sleep, but it has been disturbed sleep with a couple of awakenings through the night.. Finally got about 6 1/2 hours last night, but woke up drained (not sleepy though). Haven't had the shakes at night.. Also noticing some light headedness, sinus pressure, double vision around meal times that go away after food. I have completely stopped all added sugars for the past month, and I am insulin resistant.

I am 52.

Here's the cronometer data -
 

jzeno

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Nov 20, 2017
Messages
543
@tsranga

Nice.

Your calcium looks way, way too low. RP recommends 2.5 g (2,500 mg) / day--which is high, but he thinks that is healthy. At least getting the RDI is recommended.

I say try milk or cheese if milk causes issues (the sugar, or protein).

For cheese, Danny Roddy and Ray Peat recommended this and I don't have any allergic reaction to it, so I eat it all throughout the day, every day: The Danny Roddy Weblog on Instagram: “"Tillamook white cheddar, aged 2 years, has natural ingredients, and Reggiano is the other one that I have confidence in. A big European…”

This cheese doesn't have any dies for the color and no other allergens, so that's what made RP try it in the first place and I digest it very well. No issues of gas or bloating.

I would up your D. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0090QNC8M/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Is what Ray and other seem to enjoy.

I would consider some K, too, but that's just me.

Salt seems low. US recommends 2.3 g, which you are exceeding but many would agree that 2.3 g is far, far too low and actually causes issues like hypertension etc. Also, holding on to salt is harder for older people. I would recommend experimenting with large amoutns of excess salt. Adding salt to my diet was one of the most helpful things for getting a refreshing night's rest.

Without added salt, I'm already getting 5.2 g / d. Then, I add 1/2 teaspoon to every 16 oz of OJ and I have about 3 of those per day and then I might add some more salt here or there.

I will also add: I had SIBO-like symptoms and once I added a ton of salt, it all went away. I think it' just a problem of not enough Chlorine and the CL from the salt (NaCL) helps to make HCL (stomach acid). Immediately when I added more salt, my stomach felt like it kicked into overdrive--rumbling and moving around. Something I hadn't heard in a long time. It used to seem so sluggish.

Also--when you up salt, your body holds on to Magnesium better, so there's that, too.

Source:



For better quality sleep: I highly, highly recommend taking 2 aspirin right before lying down. I currently take 11 tablets of aspirin a day. Start with just 2 before bed and see if you don't see some positive results on the quality of your sleep. It had very good results for the quality of my sleep.

Also, showers 1.5 hours before bed have been shown to improve sleep:

Here's what science has to say about the morning versus night shower debate
A shower before bedtime may improve the sleep onset latency of youth soccer players. - PubMed - NCBI
Bathing before sleep in the young and in the elderly. - PubMed - NCBI

That should get you on the right foot to get started.

Let us know if you try something and what results you get.

Edit: I didn't even notice you mentioned EMDR in your original post. Most people don't know about it. Good find.
 
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tsranga

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Update so far..

It appears a lot of the symptoms are related to the withdrawal. I have only played around with magnesium.

I notice that after a few days on magnesium @ 100 or 200mg, after initially helping me sleep and reducing agitation, I start getting leg pain and insomnia and agitation return. Not sure why unless it's really the waves and windows of withdrawal, and not related to magnesium.
 
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tsranga

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Feb 8, 2019
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Update -

I have so far lost 34 lbs in 4 months since I stopped mirtazapine. Other than that, my sleep is getting better, although it's still around 5 hours. My GI system also seems to be pretty stable, and colonoscopy turned out clean. Went through a whole bunch of tests last week, and the only thing rhat was off was testosterone. It was 296 after I stopped smoking in 2017, and it is now 200. That seems to be a rapid drop.

Whatever I am reading says testosterone levels and weight move in opposite directions.

I do have some anxiety between 10 and 2pm, but after 2pm, it feels like someone switched it off. I still have occasional alternating hot/cold flashes, especially when when it gets hot and I am indoors, or there is a thought that triggers it at night. At these times, I tend to have more frequent trips to pee, so I am guessing that it's more anxiety and less about harmone levels.

Next stop is endocrinology and I am wondering what would explain the weight loss and low testosterone. Also the constant and set time of day anxiety, which is new after mirtazapine cessation.
 

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