Why You Shouldn't Supplement Vitamin D

ddjd

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vitamin D3 supplements eventually can and will destroy your kidneys if taken long enough or in a high enough dosage. Veterinarians know very well how cholecalciferol (D3) kills pets and other small animals because they see it quite often when the family pet accidentally ingests D-Con or similar poison meant for rats. Conversely to veterinary medicine the human medical community would like you to believe that D3 rat poison is completely safe to consume because the cholecalciferol (D3) in rat poisons are "much stronger" than the "small" amounts given to humans for "health," or that mice are different from humans and therefore the same effects cannot be applied to humans. Of course, this doesn't quite jive with the fact that mice and rats are the most commonly-used test subjects for human medical trials. Well, the fact is, the mechanism by which cholecalciferol works on rats is precisely the same in humans; this is not a case of "dags and chocolate". Cholecalciferol raises serum calcium, either acutely or chronically (depending on dose and size of mammal) and damages the kidneys. How quickly or slowly really doesn't make kidney damage more palatable. ANY kidney damage is too much. (And no, taking K2 will not stop this damage from occurring.)

In fact, the doses of this synthetically- industrialized, manufactured, oil-based chemical, designed for rat bait are very similar in scale to the amounts now being given to humans for supplementation - and make no mistake - it is THE EXACT SAME chemical! Cholecalciferol manufactured for both rat poison and human supplements, are even made by the same manufacturing company in the same facility!!! D3/cholecalciferol kills rats within minutes to hours by destroying the kidneys and shutting them down. It damages humans within weeks to months to possibly years, by first creating a chronic elevation in serum calcium, which your body then attempts to rectify, thereby creating renal (kidney) potassium wasting which then progresses to hypercalcemia, and if ingestion is continued, it inevitably results in kidney failure - just like in rats!! IT IS ALL POISON regardless of the length of time it takes to work! Just how much poison do you think is healthy to have in your diet?

 
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yashi

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Could you summarize some points that you found interesting and why you think this 2 hour video is worth a watch? Feels like when posting long videos it would be useful if some more context or summaries were given, instead of just posting links to very long videos.
 

Maljam

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Could you summarize some points that you found interesting and why you think this 2 hour video is worth a watch? Feels like when posting long videos it would be useful if some more context or summaries were given, instead of just posting links to very long videos.

Completely agree.

One of the guys talking is Morley Robbins, who has already done a lot on this topic. So I am assuming the information he has used elsewhere, so something we can probably get an overview from something like this:

The Truth About Vitamin D Part 1 - Heather Dane
 

ddjd

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Could you summarize some points that you found interesting and why you think this 2 hour video is worth a watch? Feels like when posting long videos it would be useful if some more context or summaries were given, instead of just posting links to very long videos.
jesus christ. if you don't want to invest the two hours, don't watch it. ignore it. move on.

more than happy to get admin just to delete the post altogether rather than listen to people asking to be spoonfed information
 
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Maljam

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jesus christ. if you don't want to invest the two hours, don't watch it. ignore it. move on. can't stand idiots like you

more than happy to get admin just to delete the post altogether rather than listen to people asking to be spoonfed information

No need for the personal attacks or to get admins involved.

He has got a point. Two hours is a lot of time to dedicate to someone that people barely know, this is the Ray Peat forum not the Morely Robbins forum after all, not that I am saying we can't share things, or that Morley is wrong (I haven't watched the video) but if everyone posted two hour videos, we would all have to quit our jobs in order to watch them all!
 

ddjd

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No need for the personal attacks or to get admins involved.

He has got a point. Two hours is a lot of time to dedicate to someone that people barely know, this is the Ray Peat forum not the Morely Robbins forum after all, not that I am saying we can't share things, or that Morley is wrong (I haven't watched the video) but if everyone posted two hour videos, we would all have to quit our jobs in order to watch them all!
so ignore it if you don't have the time! what is the issue here!
 

Quelsatron

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People have ingested hundreds of thousands of IU daily on accident with no ill effects, what's the explanation for that?
 

Collden

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I tend to agree with this. Its well proven that excessive Vitamin D, whether from supplements or from too much sunlight, raise urinary calcium concentrations and increase risk of kidney stones even when serum calcium levels remain normal. The argument for why we need to supplement Vitamin D is also shaky, for instance historically people wore much less revealing clothing than today and likely got less sunshine exposure than modern people.
 

Maljam

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vitamin D3 supplements eventually can and will destroy your kidneys if taken long enough or in a high enough dosage. Veterinarians know very well how cholecalciferol (D3) kills pets and other small animals because they see it quite often when the family pet accidentally ingests D-Con or similar poison meant for rats. Conversely to veterinary medicine the human medical community would like you to believe that D3 rat poison is completely safe to consume because the cholecalciferol (D3) in rat poisons are "much stronger" than the "small" amounts given to humans for "health," or that mice are different from humans and therefore the same effects cannot be applied to humans. Of course, this doesn't quite jive with the fact that mice and rats are the most commonly-used test subjects for human medical trials. Well, the fact is, the mechanism by which cholecalciferol works on rats is precisely the same in humans; this is not a case of "dags and chocolate". Cholecalciferol raises serum calcium, either acutely or chronically (depending on dose and size of mammal) and damages the kidneys. How quickly or slowly really doesn't make kidney damage more palatable. ANY kidney damage is too much. (And no, taking K2 will not stop this damage from occurring.)

In fact, the doses of this synthetically- industrialized, manufactured, oil-based chemical, designed for rat bait are very similar in scale to the amounts now being given to humans for supplementation - and make no mistake - it is THE EXACT SAME chemical! Cholecalciferol manufactured for both rat poison and human supplements, are even made by the same manufacturing company in the same facility!!! D3/cholecalciferol kills rats within minutes to hours by destroying the kidneys and shutting them down. It damages humans within weeks to months to possibly years, by first creating a chronic elevation in serum calcium, which your body then attempts to rectify, thereby creating renal (kidney) potassium wasting which then progresses to hypercalcemia, and if ingestion is continued, it inevitably results in kidney failure - just like in rats!! IT IS ALL POISON regardless of the length of time it takes to work! Just how much poison do you think is healthy to have in your diet?

No offence but this is not evidence at all, these are just words written down, and sounds like the very stressed postings of someone. Claims like this must be backed by serious scientific evidence to combat the thousands upon thousands of studies done on vitamin D showing benefits. How do you'd expect a post with no referenced, that had multiple exclamation marks after words to dispell the amount of research that has gone into vitamin D? It is one of the most researched substances in the world.

1. How high or long enough are the dosages that "destroy" your kidneys? Just saying that without actually mentioning a dose is ridiculous. If you drink about 30 litres of water very fast you will die, but nobody is doing that and it is stupid. Similarly if vitamin D of 5 million IU might kill someone, but everyone is taking 2,000 iu and feeling great, what is the problem?

2. If vitamin D "destroys" your kidneys, how come vitamin D has been used successfully in several CKD studies?

Vitamin D and Chronic Kidney Disease

3. The topic of hypercalcemia and vitamin d has been covered many times by haiduts posts, have a read of them of them if you are confused.

4. If you are worried about "poison" in your diet, I hope you aren't taking any medications or supplements with any excipients, I hope you are farming or slaughtering all the food you eat yourself, or only drink water you have collected yourself from a pure source, or I've got some bad news for you.
 

Maljam

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I tend to agree with this. Its well proven that excessive Vitamin D, whether from supplements or from too much sunlight, raise urinary calcium concentrations and increase risk of kidney stones even when serum calcium levels remain normal. The argument for why we need to supplement Vitamin D is also shaky, for instance historically people wore much less revealing clothing than today and likely got less sunshine exposure than modern people.

Historically rickets was more common and they all had to have about 12 children because most of them died in childhood, what is your point? Just because people in the past were vitamin d deficient doesnt mean we have to be now. Using "evidence" from the past of unhealthy people to justify being unhealthy now doesn't make sense.
 

Quelsatron

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I tend to agree with this. Its well proven that excessive Vitamin D, whether from supplements or from too much sunlight, raise urinary calcium concentrations and increase risk of kidney stones even when serum calcium levels remain normal. The argument for why we need to supplement Vitamin D is also shaky, for instance historically people wore much less revealing clothing than today and likely got less sunshine exposure than modern people.
Most people used to be farmers or hunter-gatherers, which I can assure you have more sunshine exposure than today.
 

Vesi

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jesus christ. if you don't want to invest the two hours, don't watch it. ignore it. move on.

more than happy to get admin just to delete the post altogether rather than listen to people asking to be spoonfed information

It's not two hours, but several hundred hours split for everyone who clicks on this thread, versus you spending few minutes to tell main points.
 

Hugh Johnson

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No offence but this is not evidence at all, these are just words written down, and sounds like the very stressed postings of someone. Claims like this must be backed by serious scientific evidence to combat the thousands upon thousands of studies done on vitamin D showing benefits. How do you'd expect a post with no referenced, that had multiple exclamation marks after words to dispell the amount of research that has gone into vitamin D? It is one of the most researched substances in the world.

1. How high or long enough are the dosages that "destroy" your kidneys? Just saying that without actually mentioning a dose is ridiculous. If you drink about 30 litres of water very fast you will die, but nobody is doing that and it is stupid. Similarly if vitamin D of 5 million IU might kill someone, but everyone is taking 2,000 iu and feeling great, what is the problem?

2. If vitamin D "destroys" your kidneys, how come vitamin D has been used successfully in several CKD studies?

Vitamin D and Chronic Kidney Disease

3. The topic of hypercalcemia and vitamin d has been covered many times by haiduts posts, have a read of them of them if you are confused.

4. If you are worried about "poison" in your diet, I hope you aren't taking any medications or supplements with any excipients, I hope you are farming or slaughtering all the food you eat yourself, or only drink water you have collected yourself from a pure source, or I've got some bad news for you.
For the record, I once consumed around 100k IU of vitamin D a day for several months. I noticed no ill effects. If I were to consume 10+ times the recommended amount of water a day I would die.
 

ddjd

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It's not two hours, but several hundred hours split for everyone who clicks on this thread, versus you spending few minutes to tell main points.
I'd block you from this entire thread if i could because it's such a great problem for you
 

Dave Clark

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Jun 2, 2017
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When I have or want to check out long videos, I put the speed up to 1.5 or more. Most videos have a lot of small talk and casual talk in it, and if you cruise through that stuff, you can get to the meat/point of the video without having to listen to talk that is not pertinent. Also, some people that do the talks are very slow talkers that take forever to get to the point, so upping the speed gets you through that. Morley may have some good points on how oral vitamin D can imbalance other nutrients and proteins in the liver, along side of raising calcium levels. Historically, man has never consumed large doses of oral D in the diet, sans eskimos or people like that, so I feel it is possible that taking D orally might be problematic and listening to Morley is worth a listen. There is a FB group called Secosteroid Hormone D that may be of interest for an opposing view on taking vitamin D supplements.
 

baccheion

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How does it destroy the kidneys? Too much excretion of calcium? Hypertension?

More vitamin D3 needs more vitamin K2 and magnesium.

At least 1 mg MK-4 and 100 mcg MK-7 per 10,000 IU.

I've been over 50,000 IU for 2+ years and serum calcium is always in range. Near the top, but still in range.
 
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