Why was my best hair on anti DHT protocol?

[Rinse & rePeat]

Great points muscle meat and organ intake did go way up as did eggs and milk.

I have been figuring this all out for almost 5 years and struggle to get that 50% gelatin. I recently ditched most of my egg whites, boiling my eggs semi soft and just eating the yolks, and focusing only gelatinous cuts of meat so I am not constantly having to make bone broth or deal with the powdered gelatin. I think small changes will eventually lead to 50% ?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Great points muscle meat and organ intake did go way up as did eggs and milk.

"Although several amino acids can be acutely or chronically toxic, even lethal, when too much is eaten, tryptophan is the only amino acid that is also carcinogenic. (It can also produce a variety of toxic metabolites, and it is very susceptible to damage by radiation.) Since tryptophan is the precursor of serotonin, the amount of tryptophan in the diet can have important effects on the way the organism responds to stress, and the way it develops, adapts, and ages." -Ray Peat

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

"Although several amino acids can be acutely or chronically toxic, even lethal, when too much is eaten, tryptophan is the only amino acid that is also carcinogenic. (It can also produce a variety of toxic metabolites, and it is very susceptible to damage by radiation.) Since tryptophan is the precursor of serotonin, the amount of tryptophan in the diet can have important effects on the way the organism responds to stress, and the way it develops, adapts, and ages." -Ray Peat

So the

I have been figuring this all out for almost 5 years and struggle to get that 50% gelatin. I recently ditched most of my egg whites, boiling my eggs semi soft and just eating the yolks, and focusing only gelatinous cuts of meat so I am not constantly having to make bone broth or deal with the powdered gelatin. I think small changes will eventually lead to 50% ?

So the average “gym bro” diet is the ultimate aging diet as per RP - egg whites, chicken breast and very little dairy. Also very little fat soluble vitamins.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

So the

So the average “gym bro” diet is the ultimate aging diet as per RP - egg whites, chicken breast and very little dairy. Also very little fat soluble vitamins.

Well said!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"On the tryptophan-poor diet, the amount of serotonin in the brain decreased. When brain serotonin decreases, the level of testosterone in male animals increases." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

So the

So the average “gym bro” diet is the ultimate aging diet as per RP - egg whites, chicken breast and very little dairy. Also very little fat soluble vitamins.

The irony huh?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I think what people forget on a RP diet is that milk and egg whites, and obviously meats are high in tryptophan which accelerates aging. That is why RP says 50% of our proteins should be from gelatin, to balance it all. So I think you have to things going on with your hair now from your happy girlfriend sushi eating days.

"Whey has been promoted as a protein supplement, but it contains a much higher proportion of tryptophan than milk does. Cheese (milk with the whey removed) contains even less tryptophan. Some people have been encouraged to eat only the whites of eggs, “to avoid cholesterol,” but the egg albumin is disproportionately rich in tryptophan." -Ray Peat

What about Casein?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

What about it?

 

[Jack Earth]

"Although several amino acids can be acutely or chronically toxic, even lethal, when too much is eaten, tryptophan is the only amino acid that is also carcinogenic. (It can also produce a variety of toxic metabolites, and it is very susceptible to damage by radiation.) Since tryptophan is the precursor of serotonin, the amount of tryptophan in the diet can have important effects on the way the organism responds to stress, and the way it develops, adapts, and ages." -Ray Peat

The aging of face has been major. I thought it was higher androgens on RP that caused the change and more masculine older look.
But it may be too much tryptophan.

 

[mrchibbs]

Yup you remember correctly. I'm open to that explanation and I'm going to consider that since I was definitely low stress during that time, not only due to relationship but also much less expenses didn't need to work as much.

That also goes along well with the cortisol theory and scalp tension theory.

Do you think saw palmetto, green tea, soy isoflavones along with being zero dairy would have no effect on hair at all?

One of the things that I've learned from Ray, Georgi and Danny, and digging into the research more these past few years, is the powerful influence of the psychosocial effects.

Having a loving relationship and a relaxed life is much more powerful than any of the other factors we mention on this forum. Thinking about Maslow, those things are crucial and extremely important.

It's stress that activates all the processes which lead to hair loss. If you were comparatively happier and less stressed back then, that'd be enough of an explanation for the better state of your hair back then. @dylanrr1 is dead on I think.

A couple years ago Danny created this pyramid for hair loss interventions in the spirit of Maslow and I think it's a good framework to evaluate things:

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

The aging of face has been major. I thought it was higher androgens on RP that caused the change and more masculine older look.
But it may be too much tryptophan.

That is what I am thinking. It isn't irreversible, just cut out the meat, egg whites and up your dairy and gelatin. I bet it will make a quick difference!

 

[Jack Earth]

One of the things that I've learned from Ray, Georgi and Danny, and digging into the research more these past few years, is the powerful influence of the psychosocial effects.

Having a loving relationship and a relaxed life is much more powerful than any of the other factors we mention on this forum. Thinking about Maslow, those things are crucial and extremely important.

It's stress that activates all the processes which lead to hair loss. If you were comparatively happier and less stressed back then, that'd be enough of an explanation for the better state of your hair back then. @dylanrr1 is dead on I think.

A couple years ago Danny created this pyramid for hair loss interventions in the spirit of Maslow and I think it's a good framework to evaluate things:

View attachment 25334

100% agree with the difficulty levels he assigned to each.
Changing your work, relationships and environment are by far harder than anything, you basically have to change your whole life if you want to be optimal for hair growth.

 

[jondoeuk]

Isn't it possible to just inhibit DHT at the scalp level and remain high DHT at a systemic level?

A number of studies show that topical finasteride and dutasteride don't impact serum DHT as much as oral. So using one of those, but reducing the dosage and combining with other topical's, such as certain shampoo's, a dermaroller, and drugs like latanoprost* should produce equal, if not better results, along with even less of an impact of serum DHT.

* A randomized double-blind placebo-controlled pilot study to assess the efficacy of a 24-week topical treatment by latanoprost 0.1% on hair growth and pigmentation in healthy volunteers with androgenetic alopecia - PubMed

 

[Jack Earth]

That is what I am thinking. It isn't irreversible, just cut out the meat, egg whites and up your dairy and gelatin. I bet it will make a quick difference!

Is fish high in tryptophan? I'm worried about upping dairy after Amarsh’s recent post.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Is fish high in tryptophan? I'm worried about upping dairy after Amarsh’s recent post.

Chicken
Turkey
Other Types Of Poultry
Beef
Pork & Other Meats
Tofu
Beans
Lentils
Pumpkin Seeds
Sunflower Seeds
Chia Seeds
Nuts
Oats
Buckwheat
Roasted Soybeans
Spirulina
Caviar
Fish
Some Shellfish
Eggs whites

Milk and cheese do too, but much less than the above foods, but I think it is the calcium in dairy that takes care of the tryptophan issue. I would have to confirm that it is calcium, but the jest is that milk is balance in a way that takes care of the negatives.

 

[opethfeldt]

I had my best hair on an anti DHT protocol as well. Lots of fenugreek and saw palmetto. I think hair loss does result from DHT but only if you have high DHT at the expense of testosterone. I think if you're not in the best metabolic health, you can't produce enough testosterone to have high levels of both testosterone and DHT, which believe is required to keep hair loss at bay. Because of this, you have the choice of either nuking DHT and keeping your hair or just saying screw it and maximizing DHT even if it means test is a bit lower. I will say, despite my hair loss, I feel much better with high DHT and medium ish testosteone than I ever did when test was sky high. My physique isn't as nice, though.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Here is my lazy investigation

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

.

 

[Jack Earth]

Chicken
Turkey
Other Types Of Poultry
Beef
Pork & Other Meats
Tofu
Beans
Lentils
Pumpkin Seeds
Sunflower Seeds
Chia Seeds
Nuts
Oats
Buckwheat
Roasted Soybeans
Spirulina
Caviar
Fish
Some Shellfish
Eggs whites

Milk and cheese do too, but much less than the above foods, but I think it is the calcium in dairy that takes care of the tryptophan issue. I would have to confirm that it is calcium, but the jest is that milk is balance in a way that takes care of the negatives.

Ok thanks. I love cheese so that would make life easy. But did you read Amarshs recent post on IGF-1?

 

[mrchibbs]

100% agree with the difficulty levels he assigned to each.
Changing your work, relationships and environment are by far harder than anything, you basically have to change your whole life if you want to be optimal for hair growth.

Which is basically what Ray said on the May 30, 2020 podcast with Danny and Georgi:

#27 Thyroid Function & Pulse Rate (1:27:00)

"The association with crease in the earlobe, and altered cholesterol metabolism and everything, says that you have to seriously backup, and not look for a ‘’cure’’ in the medical sense, but to back up and radically redo your life as (much as) possible. Such things as for example, going to a high altitude for 6 weeks at a time and eating a totally different diet, and making sure that your calcium intake is very very high compared to your phosphate intake. The phosphate, for example, in excess activates your parathyroid, aldosterone, angiotensin, everything that destroys hair growth, phosphate excess is very crucial for promoting it."

"Doing everything, high altitude etc., will increase the balance of progesterone, and help to get the parathyroid hormone, and aldosterone and angiotensin under control but you have to think of it at that very fundamental level of getting your energy system revved up and turning off those toxic processes. The parathyroid hormone in itself is enough to knock out the hair follicle."

"Getting your spontaneous energy production high so that you're producing and retaining lots of CO2, energizing and renewing the follicle, so that it selects and retains from your blood supply the trace minerals that it needs. High energy is needed for that and high energy is expressed through the balance of carbon dioxide, and keeping calcium out of the cells by keeping your parathyroid hormone low and keeping aldosterone low by doing everything anti-inflammatory. "