Why was my best hair on anti DHT protocol?

[Jack Earth]

I just recently learned how anti dht my diet supplements really were prior to finding RP.
I've already mentioned in past threads about the diet (soy/tofu, sushi, seaweed, and green tea, zero dairy products).

But yesterday I went back to my parents house and found my old vitamins that I used to take in the sushi days... I didn't even realize this herb formula for healthy hair I was taking called Foti root also had saw palmetto in it.

I never knew about Rob phh back then, but my diets/supps were in line with his anti dht anti free t protocol.

Since finding rp and learning how unhealthy lowering dht is, and how bad estrogenics like soy are, I switched and quit all that stuff and started dairy.

End results: gained muscle on rp, prob little higher sex drive, look much older more masculine, lost a bunch of hair.

If DHT has nothing to do with hair then what was it about my diet/supps back then that kept my hair so full?

 

[Sheik]

People don't want to believe such a good thing could have a bad side.

Are you doing the PHH massages?

 

[Jack Earth]

People don't want to believe such a good thing could have a bad side.

Are you doing the PHH massages?

Not atm due to laziness, but it worked very well when I did 40 min a day.
As a default I'll go back to that if I don't learn another way. I only quit because I hated doing it and got lazy.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I just recently learned how anti dht my diet supplements really were prior to finding RP.
I've already mentioned in past threads about the diet (soy/tofu, sushi, seaweed, and green tea, zero dairy products).

But yesterday I went back to my parents house and found my old vitamins that I used to take in the sushi days... I didn't even realize this herb formula for healthy hair I was taking called Foti root also had saw palmetto in it.

I never knew about Rob phh back then, but my diets/supps were in line with his anti dht anti free t protocol.

Well, the soy and tofu would be estrogenic...... but what is so "Anti-DHT" about what you list?

Just because you took a supplement with some Saw Palmetto in it doesn't mean much, especially if you took it infrequently. It might not have been enough to have an effect, and if it did, it was probably slight. It wouldn't be like mega-dosing Finasteride and Avodart.

 

[Jack Earth]

Well, the soy and tofu would be estrogenic...... but what is so "Anti-DHT" about what you list?

Just because you took a supplement with some Saw Palmetto in it doesn't mean much, especially if you took it infrequently. It might not have been enough to have an effect, and if it did, it was probably slight. It wouldn't be like mega-dosing Finasteride and Avodart.

Rob suggests soy isoflavones, green tea and saw for reducing DHT and free T.
I didn't even know I was following his advice, I didn't find phh till later.
I'm not here to argue against DHT, more to hear about why else this protocol helped my hair.
And maybe the Foti root is anti DHT too idk. The saw was 320 mg and I took daily for at least 8 months.

 

[rr1]

I remember one of your old posts saying that you got into all that sushi and green tea ***t from an ex gf right? Is it possible that you were a lot happier and free of stress/learned helplessness during that time of the new relationship/honeymoon phase or whatever. It seems pretty common for people to experience better hair simply from being in a more happy/stress-free state and stopping the worrying about their hair.

 

[Pistachio]

I just recently learned how anti dht my diet supplements really were prior to finding RP.
I've already mentioned in past threads about the diet (soy/tofu, sushi, seaweed, and green tea, zero dairy products).

But yesterday I went back to my parents house and found my old vitamins that I used to take in the sushi days... I didn't even realize this herb formula for healthy hair I was taking called Foti root also had saw palmetto in it.

I never knew about Rob phh back then, but my diets/supps were in line with his anti dht anti free t protocol.

Since finding rp and learning how unhealthy lowering dht is, and how bad estrogenics like soy are, I switched and quit all that stuff and started dairy.

End results: gained muscle on rp, prob little higher sex drive, look much older more masculine, lost a bunch of hair.

If DHT has nothing to do with hair then what was it about my diet/supps back then that kept my hair so full?

Nobody can figure out the male pattern baldness mystery and probably never will. However, some people have stopped or even reversed it using certain methods, although there doesn't seem to be a general method that works for most people. DHT is involved in the hair process, but to what level specifically is unclear. Above all the discussions, you have to go with the method that works for you. Listen to your body. The challenge for MPB sufferers seems to be keeping high test (and/or DHT) while also keeping your hair. It seems you can only have one.

 

[Jack Earth]

I remember one of your old posts saying that you got into all that sushi and green tea ***t from an ex gf right? Is it possible that you were a lot happier and free of stress/learned helplessness during that time of the new relationship/honeymoon phase or whatever. It seems pretty common for people to experience better hair simply from being in a more happy/stress-free state and stopping the worrying about their hair.

Yup you remember correctly. I'm open to that explanation and I'm going to consider that since I was definitely low stress during that time, not only due to relationship but also much less expenses didn't need to work as much.

That also goes along well with the cortisol theory and scalp tension theory.

Do you think saw palmetto, green tea, soy isoflavones along with being zero dairy would have no effect on hair at all?

 

[rr1]

Yup you remember correctly. I'm open to that explanation and I'm going to consider that since I was definitely low stress during that time, not only due to relationship but also much less expenses didn't need to work as much.

That also goes along well with the cortisol theory and scalp tension theory.

Do you think saw palmetto, green tea, soy isoflavones along with being zero dairy would have no effect on hair at all?

I don't think they would have had a positive effect on hair. Occasional green tea is fine, but I don't believe the saw palmetto/soy isoflavones would have had any positive effect on your hair, let alone any effect at all.

The only other case could be that maybe your digestion was better eating this way, since some people - especially those in a hypothyroid state - can't tolerate dairy. But if you did indeed have better digestion at this time, it could have also been due to the lower stress.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Isn't it possible to just inhibit DHT at the scalp level and remain high DHT at a systemic level?

 

[rr1]

Isn't it possible to just inhibit DHT at the scalp level and remain high DHT at a systemic level?

You should watch the video linked here to see why that would be a bad idea. Does DHT REALLY cause hairloss?? With Hans Amato

 

[Zigzag]

Nobody can figure out the male pattern baldness mystery and probably never will. However, some people have stopped or even reversed it using certain methods, although there doesn't seem to be a general method that works for most people. DHT is involved in the hair process, but to what level specifically is unclear. Above all the discussions, you have to go with the method that works for you. Listen to your body. The challenge for MPB sufferers seems to be keeping high test (and/or DHT) while also keeping your hair. It seems you can only have one.

True, it's a whole body defect that we'll probably never solve.

 

[Zigzag]

Isn't it possible to just inhibit DHT at the scalp level and remain high DHT at a systemic level?

People have been trying that lately. As far as I know, all the drugs/methods have failed so far.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I remember one of your old posts saying that you got into all that sushi and green tea ***t from an ex gf right? Is it possible that you were a lot happier and free of stress/learned helplessness during that time of the new relationship/honeymoon phase or whatever. It seems pretty common for people to experience better hair simply from being in a more happy/stress-free state and stopping the worrying about their hair.

I am impressed with your answer Dylan! When I divorced my ex husband his hair changed dramatically within a year. My girlfriend saw him that 12 months later and was shocked how much hair he had lost and how gray it was. She couldn't believe how much he had aged in just a year, stress and unhappiness wreaks havoc on the body as well as the soul.

 

[SOMO]

When I took Finasteride it became hard to get an erection and it didn't improve my hair.

You have to get your stress levels under control and just focus on increasing testosterone and getting as much nutrition in until the body stabilizes itself.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I like this Ray Peat quote and it is exactly to what Dylan said, "Just thinking about, anticipating, sex increases testosterone, makes the whiskers grow faster; general good health keeps the increased testosterone from increasing estrogen and cortisol." -Ray Peat

 

[Jack Earth]

People have been trying that lately. As far as I know, all the drugs/methods have failed so far.

What about RU5881?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I think what people forget on a RP diet is that milk and egg whites, and obviously meats are high in tryptophan which accelerates aging. That is why RP says 50% of our proteins should be from gelatin, to balance it all. So I think you have to things going on with your hair now from your happy girlfriend sushi eating days.

"Whey has been promoted as a protein supplement, but it contains a much higher proportion of tryptophan than milk does. Cheese (milk with the whey removed) contains even less tryptophan. Some people have been encouraged to eat only the whites of eggs, “to avoid cholesterol,” but the egg albumin is disproportionately rich in tryptophan." -Ray Peat

 

[Jack Earth]

I am impressed with your answer Dylan! When I divorced my ex husband his hair changed dramatically within a year. My girlfriend saw him that 12 months later and was shocked how much hair he had lost and how gray it was. She couldn't believe how much he had aged in just a year, stress and unhappiness wreaks havoc on the body as well as the soul.

Could be my case. If it is, the takeaway should be that more money does not equal happier!
As expenses rise and you have larger overhead to meet each month... Stress will be much higher.
So I was less stress when working a job at a gym as a trainer and living on much lower income.
Now owning a training company stress has gotten way higher and much more behind the scenes unenjoyable work, compared to just being a trainer which was more fun.
Self help books are the reason I made the switch to business as they bash working a salary job.

 

[Jack Earth]

I think what people forget on a RP diet is that milk and egg whites, and obviously meats are high in tryptophan which accelerates aging. That is why RP says 50% of our proteins should be from gelatin, to balance it all. So I think you have to things going on with your hair now from your happy girlfriend sushi eating days.

"Whey has been promoted as a protein supplement, but it contains a much higher proportion of tryptophan than milk does. Cheese (milk with the whey removed) contains even less tryptophan. Some people have been encouraged to eat only the whites of eggs, “to avoid cholesterol,” but the egg albumin is disproportionately rich in tryptophan." -Ray Peat

Great points muscle meat and organ intake did go way up as did eggs and milk.