Why the plat-based push?

[Kayaker]

With all that being said, if I lived in the wilderness, I would certainly be eating meat. I'm not against it... I don't have some dogmatic reason like "save the animals" or anything ridiculous. I choose what I eat to maximize my quality of life and based on what's accessible to me, but not necessarily based on what's most convenient.

Actual plant-based, as in "whole food plant-based" (WFPB) is a good thing. The processed meat replacements and PUFA oils are trash. With that being said, exclusively WFPB is only really doable long-term with our modern amenities. The ability to get certain nutrients as supplements makes WFPB feasible. I don't necessarily think that any particular diet is ideal just because you can get it from meat and dairy, etc. It's only ideal for those that don't have access to modern amenities. So, if you live in a jungle in South America, eating exclusively WFPB is not ideal because you will eventually end up with deficiencies in certain nutrients. It would be better if you ate 90% WFPB and 10% meats to ensure that you don't develop deficiencies in things like B12, K2, possibly choline, etc.

So then you believe meat sold in the grocery store is trash? I heard it's often sprayed with citric acid, and that makes it slightly less worth eating, but plant foods have their own problems such as pesticides and natural substances such as fiber, serotonin in many fruits, small seeds that are irritating, and so forth.

 

[ChemHead]

So then you believe meat sold in the grocery store is trash? I heard it's often sprayed with citric acid, and that makes it slightly less worth eating, but plant foods have their own problems such as pesticides and natural substances such as fiber, serotonin in many fruits, small seeds that are irritating, and so forth.

Yes, I think we're constantly battling against poisons of industry, whether it's pesticides or otherwise. We just have to do the best we can to get the highest quality food possible, whether by growing or producing your own food or going to greater lengths to ensure what you eat hasn't been tainted.

However, the highest quality, untainted meat is always going to have a greater inflammatory and digestive burden than a raw plant (assuming we're talking about edible plants and not poisonous ones). I can't say there's anything really wrong with fiber. Some seeds can be irritating I'm sure and there are people who are particularly sensitive to seeds and pulses that are cooked. However, growing these seeds or pulses into microgreens will generally completely eliminate these sensitivities that some people experience.

Now, would it be better if I were to pick all the seeds off my strawberries before eating them? Certainly, I think it would. Am I going to waste my time doing that for such an insignificant inflammatory load? No. Is the inflammatory load of strawberry seeds as bad or worse than that of a steak? Not even remotely close.

 

[Kayaker]

Yes, I think we're constantly battling against poisons of industry, whether it's pesticides or otherwise. We just have to do the best we can to get the highest quality food possible, whether by growing or producing your own food or going to greater lengths to ensure what you eat hasn't been tainted.

However, the highest quality, untainted meat is always going to have a greater inflammatory and digestive burden than a raw plant (assuming we're talking about edible plants and not poisonous ones). I can't say there's anything really wrong with fiber. Some seeds can be irritating I'm sure and there are people who are particularly sensitive to seeds and pulses that are cooked. However, growing these seeds or pulses into microgreens will generally completely eliminate these sensitivities that some people experience.

Now, would it be better if I were to pick all the seeds off my strawberries before eating them? Certainly, I think it would. Am I going to waste my time doing that for such an insignificant inflammatory load? No. Is the inflammatory load of strawberry seeds as bad or worse than that of a steak? Not even remotely close.

How do you determine the inflammatory load of food?

I actually wrote about my problem with strawberries here the other day.

How much added sodium on an all-milk diet?

I am currently up to 24 cups Lactaid 1% milk. How much added sodium is needed? I am currently adding 1/4 tsp baking soda (280 mg sodium) per 6 cups. Further, would I need anything else like liver or vitamin C? How much? What's the Peat ratio of sodium:calcium? What about sodium:potassium? Is...

raypeatforum.com

Meat has a lot of arachidonic acid, which can be minimized by eating low-fat meat, methionine, cysteine, tryptophan, and histidine, which can be minimized by eating non-muscle meat, and iron which can be minimized by drinking coffee with it. I'm not aware of anything else that's inflammatory.

 

[ChemHead]

How do you determine the inflammatory load of food?

I don't have have any metric that I can suggest to quantify this. I'm sure there are quantitative metrics, but I don't know of any in particular that would definitely suggest inflammatory burden. May c-reactive protein, but that would probably not be a great metric for determining inflammatory or digestive burden.

My only metrics are qualitative. For example, when I eat cooked food, I will almost always require a couple more hours of sleep before waking. I feel slower in the morning. If I eat meat or if I were to eat a nice croissant made with lots of high quality butter my hands and face will swell a little and blood will rush to my face... I can feel my pulse throbbing in my hands and face. This used to be worse, but is not as bad after many years of eating the way I currently do (my body has a better ability to handle inflammation now) and, because of this, I will have meat anywhere between 1-3 times a year for special occasions. When I was regularly eating meat and dairy, my skin was generally irritated. Didn't really have acne... It was just red and irritated in face, neck, chest. I no longer have these issue at all.

I also used to get sick like clockwork every single fall/winter. I would occasionally get some flu-like symptoms, but I would always develop a cough and nasal/chest congestion every year. Since changing my diet, I have not had the slightest sickness. Never a cough, never flu, no more allergies from pollen and ragweed, no headaches. Literally nothing.. For years. The worst thing that happens to me is that I'll occasionally feel abnormally tired one day and if it's not from deviating from my diet, the worst case I can think of is that it could be from viral or bacterial infection that makes me feel tired for a day, but never manifests further due to the strength of my immune system.

 

[TAG145]

Another plant-based “meat”. Tastes like human flesh?


View: https://youtu.be/CPdmWTLh45o

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Actual plant-based, as in "whole food plant-based" (WFPB) is a good thing. The processed meat replacements and PUFA oils are trash. With that being said, exclusively WFPB is only really doable long-term with our modern amenities. The ability to get certain nutrients as supplements makes WFPB feasible. I don't necessarily think that any particular diet is ideal just because you can get it from meat and dairy, etc. It's only ideal for those that don't have access to modern amenities. So, if you live in a jungle in South America, eating exclusively WFPB is not ideal because you will eventually end up with deficiencies in certain nutrients. It would be better if you ate 90% WFPB and 10% meats to ensure that you don't develop deficiencies in things like B12, K2, possibly choline, etc.

Well they're not pushing WFPB. They're pushing Seed Oils, GMO, and other agrobusiness Cartel /Food Company Cartels products.

The powers that be are trashing the "globalized buy chinese trinkets economy". Too much dependence is on China and OPEC. They have us by the neck. U. So The oligarchy is saying no more Chinese trinkets(supply chain busting), Drive less, eat less meat, use less energy...etc. It's Austerity and lowered standard of living. When you print trillion and trillions and tax and tax it creates a 1% and 99% class structure of feudalism. They're going back to the basics Neofedualism. Part of breaking the individual collective society down is by saying. You don't take the vax you don't eat. So it strips people of liberty, freedom, and other fundamental aspects of American society.

Time will be very tough going foward. Prepare according.

 

[BigShoes]

Hi OP - it's basically because TPTB (the powers that be) want you weak and subservient. There are around 15 essential nutrients that you can only get from animal foods:

Vitamin A (not counting beta carotene)
Vit B6 (Pyridoxal, Pyridoxamine)
Vit B12 (impossible to get on vegan diet without injections - even then, it is very poorly absorbed)
Vit D (vegans are chronically low in this)
Vitamin K2 (Mk4)

Certain Key Amino Acids: Creatine, Carnitine, Carnosine, Taurine especially
Heme-Iron
CoQ-10

Not to mention, animal proteins and saturated animal fats are essential to human health (it's what we are made out of).

Plant-based diet typically translates to: High PUFA, low quality / incomplete proteins, low vitamins, imbalanced minerals, gut inflammation (grains, fibrous vegetables, PUFAs), general weakness and sickness.

I believe that TPTB will try to ban meat by 2030 in the name of "climate change". You may think: "that's crazy, there's no way they would do that." But if I'd told you in pre-2020 what they were going to do from March 2020 to now, you would also have looked at me like I was insane.

General rule - if the mainstream narrative is telling you to do something / something is good - you should do the opposite. Examples of their nonsense:
(1) Sugar is bad for you
(2) Saturated fat is bad for you
(3) red meat will give you cancer / heart disease
(4) Omega 3 is good for you
(5) eat lots of leafy greens
(6) whole grains and starchy carbs are good for you and should make up the core of your energy intake

 

[Kayaker]

At OP - it's because TPTB want you weak and subservient. There are around 15 essential nutrients that you can only get from animal foods:

Vitamin A (beta carotene does not count)
Vit B6 (Pyridoxal, Pyridoxamine)
Vit B12 (impossible to get on vegan diet without injections - even then, it is very poorly absorbed)
Vit D (vegans are chronically low in this)
Vitamin K2 (Mk4)

Certain Key Amino Acids: Creatine, Carnitine, Carnosine, Taurine especially
Heme-Iron
CoQ-10

Not to mention, animal proteins and saturated animal fats are essential to human health (it's what you are made out of...).

Plant-based diet means: High PUFA, low quality protein, low vitamins, imbalanced minerals, gut inflammation (grains, fibrous vegetables, PUFAs), general weakness and sickness.

TPTB will try to ban meat by 2030 in the name of "climate change" - mark my words. You may think "that's crazy, there's no way they would do that." But if I'd told you in pre-2020 what they were going to do from March 2020 to now, you would look at me like I was insane.

Why don't you raise your own livestock then?

 

[BigShoes]

Why don't you raise your own livestock then?

Hi @Kayaker - I hope you are doing great.

I don't yet have the land, resources or skills - I am a sitting duck at present. But I do support local farms.

I am working towards financial independence with the aim of eventual self-sufficiency (as close as I can get). Tbh though, that probably won't save me if things really do start to "go south" - TPTB can seize your property whenever they feel like it, and the farmers are often big targets in times of trouble / societal collapse (see the Holodomor in Ukraine)

 

[TAG145]

Hi OP - it's basically because TPTB (the powers that be) want you weak and subservient. There are around 15 essential nutrients that you can only get from animal foods:

Vitamin A (not counting beta carotene)
Vit B6 (Pyridoxal, Pyridoxamine)
Vit B12 (impossible to get on vegan diet without injections - even then, it is very poorly absorbed)
Vit D (vegans are chronically low in this)
Vitamin K2 (Mk4)

Certain Key Amino Acids: Creatine, Carnitine, Carnosine, Taurine especially
Heme-Iron
CoQ-10

Not to mention, animal proteins and saturated animal fats are essential to human health (it's what we are made out of).

Plant-based diet typically translates to: High PUFA, low quality / incomplete proteins, low vitamins, imbalanced minerals, gut inflammation (grains, fibrous vegetables, PUFAs), general weakness and sickness.

I believe that TPTB will try to ban meat by 2030 in the name of "climate change". You may think: "that's crazy, there's no way they would do that." But if I'd told you in pre-2020 what they were going to do from March 2020 to now, you would also have looked at me like I was insane.

General rule - if the mainstream narrative is telling you to do something / something is good - you should do the opposite. Examples of their nonsense:
(1) Sugar is bad for you
(2) Saturated fat is bad for you
(3) red meat will give you cancer / heart disease
(4) Omega 3 is good for you
(5) eat lots of leafy greens
(6) whole grains and starchy carbs are good for you and should make up the core of your energy intake

100% agree with you. Anything pushed in the mainstream needs to be questioned IMO. Im so glad to have this forum for sanity checks. And, my husband and close friends/family have the same viewpoints. So exhausting going to a dr. with what they push as healthy…all the things you mention plus vaccines without questioning or even entertaining your questions about it. Keeping us unwell also gives them millions of Guinea pigs to test their pharmaceuticals!

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Hi OP - it's basically because TPTB (the powers that be) want you weak and subservient. There are around 15 essential nutrients that you can only get from animal foods:

Vitamin A (not counting beta carotene)
Vit B6 (Pyridoxal, Pyridoxamine)
Vit B12 (impossible to get on vegan diet without injections - even then, it is very poorly absorbed)
Vit D (vegans are chronically low in this)
Vitamin K2 (Mk4)

Certain Key Amino Acids: Creatine, Carnitine, Carnosine, Taurine especially
Heme-Iron
CoQ-10

Not to mention, animal proteins and saturated animal fats are essential to human health (it's what we are made out of).

Plant-based diet typically translates to: High PUFA, low quality / incomplete proteins, low vitamins, imbalanced minerals, gut inflammation (grains, fibrous vegetables, PUFAs), general weakness and sickness.

I believe that TPTB will try to ban meat by 2030 in the name of "climate change". You may think: "that's crazy, there's no way they would do that." But if I'd told you in pre-2020 what they were going to do from March 2020 to now, you would also have looked at me like I was insane.

General rule - if the mainstream narrative is telling you to do something / something is good - you should do the opposite. Examples of their nonsense:
(1) Sugar is bad for you
(2) Saturated fat is bad for you
(3) red meat will give you cancer / heart disease
(4) Omega 3 is good for you
(5) eat lots of leafy greens
(6) whole grains and starchy carbs are good for you and should make up the core of your energy intake

100%

Welcome to the forum, sir. You've come out with a bang!

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Well they're not pushing WFPB. They're pushing Seed Oils, GMO, and other agrobusiness Cartel /Food Company Cartels products.

The powers that be are trashing the "globalized buy chinese trinkets economy". Too much dependence is on China and OPEC. They have us by the neck. U. So The oligarchy is saying no more Chinese trinkets(supply chain busting), Drive less, eat less meat, use less energy...etc. It's Austerity and lowered standard of living. When you print trillion and trillions and tax and tax it creates a 1% and 99% class structure of feudalism. They're going back to the basics Neofedualism. Part of breaking the individual collective society down is by saying. You don't take the vax you don't eat. So it strips people of liberty, freedom, and other fundamental aspects of American society.

Time will be very tough going foward. Prepare according.

Indeed.

Keep up the informative posts, Amarsh. I doubt I'm the only one who values them.

 

[ChemHead]

Well they're not pushing WFPB. They're pushing Seed Oils, GMO, and other agrobusiness Cartel /Food Company Cartels products.

Of course they're pushing seed oils and other trash. It's a product of industry. It's still important to distinguish, though. The average person that encounters this thread and reads plant-based = bad may walk away thinking that eating a diet of fruits, vegetables, leafy greens, etc. is bad for you... which is not even close to reality.

 

[Coffe]

Actual plant-based, as in "whole food plant-based" (WFPB) is a good thing. The processed meat replacements and PUFA oils are trash. With that being said, exclusively WFPB is only really doable long-term with our modern amenities. The ability to get certain nutrients as supplements makes WFPB feasible. I don't necessarily think that any particular diet is ideal just because you can get it from meat and dairy, etc. It's only ideal for those that don't have access to modern amenities. So, if you live in a jungle in South America, eating exclusively WFPB is not ideal because you will eventually end up with deficiencies in certain nutrients. It would be better if you ate 90% WFPB and 10% meats to ensure that you don't develop deficiencies in things like B12, K2, possibly choline, etc.

one of the worst things about the plant based diet is you have to graze all day, some of my friends are vegan and vegetarian and they're hungry constantly

 

[BigShoes]

100%

Welcome to the forum, sir. You've come out with a bang!

Thank you, sir. Excellent profile pic btw.

 

[ChemHead]

one of the worst things about the plant based diet is you have to graze all day, some of my friends are vegan and vegetarian and they're hungry constantly

It is one of the worst things. For me I don't necessarily have to graze all day, but I need a large block of time to rinse or prepare what I eat and I tend to skip eating on days when I'm particularly busy with some physical activity. If I'm sitting at a desk, it's not really an issue. However, as I mentioned previously, there are positive and negative tradeoffs and, for my particular diet, one of the negatives is the time required to chew.

 

[LLight]

I eat foods that are very easy to digest, low in calories, highly nutrient dense, and as low as possible in inflammatory load.

What are those and how foods translate to an inflammatory load? Is this about compounds contained in the food that trigger the immune system?

 

[ChemHead]

What are those and how foods translate to an inflammatory load? Is this about compounds contained in the food that trigger the immune system?

I eat a diet of mostly raw plants. So, I eat a lot of leafy greens, vegetables, a lot of sprouted microgreens, some fruits. I rarely eat nuts, but I do eat a couple Brazil nuts a week. I eat a lot of microgreens grown from pulses and seeds.. Lots of lentil microgreens, a couple various bean sprouts, broccoli sprouts, flax sprouts, Chia sprouts, sunflower sprouts. When I eat cooked foods, I feel noticeably more tired.

When I had very prolonged poor digestion caused a nasty pharmaceutical, it became very easy to distinguish which foods were more of a digestive burden. I formerly could not digest pulses.. Cooked beans and lentils, especially black beans due to my digestive issues. My gut would bloat up within 30 minutes of eating and remain that way for over 24 hours and they would come out almost completely undigested. However, if I sprouted the pulses into microgreens and ate only the shoots and removed any remaining seed/bean that was attached, I had zero issues with digestion.

I now have zero issues digesting cooked beans/pulses due to improvement in my condition. However, due to my experience in discovering the digestibility of microgreens compared to seeds or beans, I don't eat them cooked or raw.. And I generally don't eat nuts for the same reason. By growing them into microgreens, the food comes with its own enzymes, it's already been broken down into simple sugars, fatty acids, and amino acids, antinutrients are neutralized, and various phytochemicals, flavanoids, anthocyanidins, etc. are either developed or remain intact.

Because of these things, my body does not have to expend an excessive amount of energy producing digestive enzymes to break down the food I consume. I let sprouting, the enzymes within the plants, and bacteria do most of the work so that my body can allocate the energy it saves toward something else. The only real downside to eating the way I do is the time it takes in learning and developing a completely different lifestyle and the volume of food and the amount of chewing I have to do in order to ensure I'm getting sufficient nutrition.

 

[Korven]

I eat a diet of mostly raw plants. So, I eat a lot of leafy greens, vegetables, a lot of sprouted microgreens, some fruits. I rarely eat nuts, but I do eat a couple Brazil nuts a week. I eat a lot of microgreens grown from pulses and seeds.. Lots of lentil microgreens, a couple various bean sprouts, broccoli sprouts, flax sprouts, Chia sprouts, sunflower sprouts. When I eat cooked foods, I feel noticeably more tired.

When I had very prolonged poor digestion caused a nasty pharmaceutical, it became very easy to distinguish which foods were more of a digestive burden. I formerly could not digest pulses.. Cooked beans and lentils, especially black beans due to my digestive issues. My gut would bloat up within 30 minutes of eating and remain that way for over 24 hours and they would come out almost completely undigested. However, if I sprouted the pulses into microgreens and ate only the shoots and removed any remaining seed/bean that was attached, I had zero issues with digestion.

I now have zero issues digesting cooked beans/pulses due to improvement in my condition. However, due to my experience in discovering the digestibility of microgreens compared to seeds or beans, I don't eat them cooked or raw.. And I generally don't eat nuts for the same reason. By growing them into microgreens, the food comes with its own enzymes, it's already been broken down into simple sugars, fatty acids, and amino acids, antinutrients are neutralized, and various phytochemicals, flavanoids, anthocyanidins, etc. are either developed or remain intact.

Because of these things, my body does not have to expend an excessive amount of energy producing digestive enzymes to break down the food I consume. I let sprouting, the enzymes within the plants, and bacteria do most of the work so that my body can allocate the energy it saves toward something else. The only real downside to eating the way I do is the time it takes in learning and developing a completely different lifestyle and the volume of food and the amount of chewing I have to do in order to ensure I'm getting sufficient nutrition.

Genuinely curious, are you able to keep up your body temperature and energy/vigour with only raw fruits and veggies, sprouts etc? Do you live in a cold or warm climate?

I was WFPB for a couple of years and it worked "fine" as I went into it already being healthy and lived in a warm tropical climate with lots of sunshine and sweet juicy fruits. Whenever I've tried to eat a vegan diet during winter in Scandinavia it quickly makes me feel cold, frail and miserable.

I agree with @Mufasa's perspective on anti-endotoxin foods and pro-endotoxin foods. Fruits, salads, raw vegetables are anti-endotoxin and can make you feel a lot better by reducing inflammation, but in the long run (months to years) most will run into problems due to the lack of deep nourishment from animal products, see long-term fruitarians. Vice versa, animal products, refined starches, hamburgers, milkshakes etc are very pro-metabolic and great for giving you strength and nourishment, but if you overdo them and/or have a low metabolism and weak digestion they can cause endotoxic reactions.

For me the key is to balance both of these; having a glass of cold-pressed pomegranate juice with your ground beef and rice, and some anti-endotoxin spices like fresh ginger.

 

[Jerkboy]

Cheap to make in bulk? Same reason why some vegetable oils are used in products. I think it comes down to money (and lack of care of human health).

Perhaps down the line some people with more sinister plans benefit from it as well. But I think the start of these food habits come from production and how much money it makes the companies.