Why T3 Have No Effect?

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gilson dantas

gilson dantas

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Foods that increase endotoxin will cause liver issues, increased estrogen and cortisol and will lower temperatures.
OK. Very interesting idea.
But what is the logic with OJ increasing endotoxin? And cofee increasing endotoxin?? I never heard R Peat saying that. I would like to undestand the logic behind that.
I use OJ, cheese, all over the day. And carrot with coconut oil every day.
"Try a diet of zero starch, zero pectins , zero latex containing fruit"- I do it.
 

tara

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I don't know the answer in your case, but a cell needs high enough levels of some enabling chemicals, and low enough levels of blocking chemicals, and some other homeostatic conditions to be in range, in order to produce energy. Any one of those too far out of range can presumably block energy production. T3 is one of the factors. Fuel, vitamins and minerals are others. Absence of excessive PUFAs you know about.

If the factors you are aware of seem to all be covered , then maybe time to cast wider?
Some ideas, not sure if any of them are relevant.
Do you think you have all the dietary nutrients being supplied?
As far as you know, no poisons blocking the cellular respiratory apparatus? You don't happen to be living in an arsenic sprayed orchard, or some other source of chemical mitochondrial interference?
Any idea how you liver is doing? If it is overloaded or struggling, it may have trouble clearing waste or supplying necessities to tissues?
Do you have oxygen flowing to cells? How are yourHave you measured your Buteyko Control Pause?
Have you read up on Steve Richfield's Temperature Reset theory and method, as ecstatic referred to?

"The fact that few people even follow the minimum 2-week delay in a T4 dose increase should raise some concern" - can you elaborate on this I haven't heard Ray talk about it
AIUI, T4 has a long half life. It takes at least 2 weeks at a steady dose to reach a stable blood level. So if you conclude after say 2 days that your dose is too low, and raise it, and then again after a couple more days, it is easy to over shoot. Then if you get too much in your system, it takes a long time to work itself out again. AIUI, large overdoses can be dangerous (as DaveF mentioned), and smaller overdoses the body can adapt to by down-regulating it's own production and maybe other mechanisms, but that makes it harder to find an optimal dose.
IIRC, Broda Barnes used to adjust dosage at monthly intervals.

My non-expert impression is that it makes sense to approach optimal dosing gradually from below.

I think it's wise to reading up and getting well-informed about thyroid and dosing before embarking too enthusiastically on experimentation.
 
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gilson dantas

gilson dantas

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@tara, I think your approach is perfect.
But... How to know if the liver is overloaded or struggling? I use carrot and coconut oil every day. And I follow a R Peat logic to eat foods. What exams to do to know if the liver is bad? Or if it is the liver the weak point?
Steve Richfield's Temperature Reset theory and method,
I think it is a very difficult method [it is very impractical for my daily life].
I have no experience with Buteyko method.
I think it's wise to reading up and getting well-informed about thyroid and dosing before embarking too enthusiastically on experimentation.
That is the correct and it is the scientific way.
I readed everything I founded. But I did not find a didactic explanation of all the factors and determinations that could explain that T3 works as water for someone [for me]: zero effect. I would like to have a global view. I have learned by parts, by elements: and this does not help me enough to guide my practice.
Anyway,
I do not know if I express myself clearly.
 

Mito

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Too much carotene?

RP: "the responsiveness of the cell to thyroid, is inhibited in proportion to the amount of unsaturated fats. And carotene, even though its not a fatty acid, is highly unsaturated, and it has that same effect of interfering with thyroid function just because of this series of unsaturations."

Is your albumin and or prealbumin (transthyretin) good?

RP: "Much more T3 bound to albumin is taken up by the liver than the small amount identified in vitro as free T3 (Terasaki, et al., 1987). The specific binding of T3 to albumin alters the protein's electrical properties, changing the way the albumin interacts with cells and other proteins. (Albumin becomes electrically more positive when it binds the hormone; this would make the albumin enter cells more easily. Giving up its T3 to the cell, it would become more negative, making it tend to leave the cell.) This active role of albumin in helping cells take up T3 might account for its increased uptake by the red cells when there were fewer cells in proportion to the albumin medium. This could also account for the favorable prognosis associated with higher levels of serum albumin in various sicknesses."

"Transthyretin, the main transporter of thyroid and vitamin A, and albumin (which can also transport thyroid hormone) are both able to enter cells, while loaded with thyroid hormone and vitamin A."
 

DaveFoster

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"The fact that few people even follow the minimum 2-week delay in a T4 dose increase should raise some concern" - can you elaborate on this I haven't heard Ray talk about it
He's mentioned it many times. If you Google search"ray peat thyroid," he takes about it in the first article that comes up.

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

"Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually helpful to take a few micorgrams per hour. Since it restores respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks."
 

HDD

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Have you read this From Peatarian email exchange?

"If you are eating enough protein, about 100 grams, and salt and thyroid, then I would consider the steroids--something might be interfering with your production of pregnenolone and DHEA. Things that could do that would be very low cholesterol, or a deficiency of vitamin A (retinol), or possibly other deficiencies.

If your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene."
 
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gilson dantas

gilson dantas

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it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day.
OK. But when you do it and temperature does´t change? You can´t use more and more T3...
 

DaveFoster

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Raincoast

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Try putting a drop of t3 in about 60ml water drink on empty stomach with a tsp of honey. Transdermal is generally ineffective. See my posts in labs forum if you like.
I do the same for tyromix.
 

Travis

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I was reading about adrenochrome and thyroid resistance. Adrenochrome is a natural metabolite of adrenaline and is thought to cause schizophrenia. Here is a passage from Dr. Hoffer and Dr. Osmond's book:

Large doses of hormone did not increase oxygen consumption. It has been known for a long time that schizophrenic patients could tolerate large doses of thyroid and not show any evidence of hyperthyroidism. Hoskins (1932) reported that schizophrenic patients were resistant to large doses of thyroid. We have found that 5 grains must usually be given before the pulse rate is elevated to 100 or more. This is nearly twice the normal endogenous production of thyroid. Brody and Man (1950) found that the concentrated serum precipitable iodine for 57 schizophrenic patients was normal.

They gave them up to 200 micrograms of T₃:

Of this group, half were given 200 µg of l-triiodothyronine each day and the other half, placebo. Of the drug group 12 were improved and, of the placebo group, 2 were improved.

Based on the work of Dr.s Osmond and Hoffer, niacin and ascorbate should increase T₃ sensitivity by reducing adrenochrome and other antithyroid quinones. This is just one illustration of how one person can be much more resistant to thyroid hormone than another.
 

docall18

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OK. Very interesting idea.
But what is the logic with OJ increasing endotoxin? And cofee increasing endotoxin?? I never heard R Peat saying that. I would like to undestand the logic behind that.
I use OJ, cheese, all over the day. And carrot with coconut oil every day.
"Try a diet of zero starch, zero pectins , zero latex containing fruit"- I do it.

Most commercial OJ has enzymes, high pectin etc in it, and can cause endotoxic symptoms. If you look at and taste home squeezed OJ it separates out and also tastes much different. However even homemade OJ needs to be made with fully ripened oranges and filtered very well or it can be harmful.

I never said coffee increases endotoxin. I think the opposite, you should be drinking coffee. Starting out low so you don't increase cortisol.
 

Vanced

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In my experience (5+ years of taking t4 & t3) you will know if the T3 you are taking is any good or not regardless of your diet/pufa status etc.

I would try another brand of t3.
 

tara

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I have no experience with Buteyko method.

The Buteyko Control Pause is a way to assess the carbon dioxide levels in your system, and whether one has habits of chronic hidden hyperventilation. Hyperventilation lowers blood CO2 levels. When CO2 levels are lower than optimal, oxygen has stronger affinity to haemoglobin, and is less readily released to tissues that need it.
The most efficient energy production depends on a good supply of oxygen.
There are threads here and other sites that explain it well.
I learned about here: Buteyko Breathing - Buteyko Method How to Instructions
This is also a good summary: http://www.asthmacare.ie/pdfs/CloseYourMouth.pdf

Have you read about the Warburg Effect? Efficient energy production involves oxidation. I think cancer tends to arise and spread more readily in hypoxic conditions, and once established maintains glycolysis in the cells it gets involved in, even when oxygen is once more available.
 
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