Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium

haidut

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This is certainly only one reason, but given how important for metabolism it is I thought it is worth mentioning. Calcium activates the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH), which takes the pyruvate produced by glycolysis, converts it to Acetyl-Co-A and thus starts the Krebs cycle. Calcium also seems to activate the other enzymes participating in the Krebs cycle.
Without properly functioning Krebs, cells will be stuck in glycolysis with excess pyruvate production. The excess pyruvate will get converted into lactate by the enzyme LDH, thus exhibiting the Warburg effect.
Finally, the proper functioning of the Krebs cycle and synthesis of its intermediate metabolites fumarate and succinate seems to restrain the enzyme HIF, which is so important in human pathology and especially cancer.
Citric acid cycle - Wikipedia

"...Calcium is used as a regulator. Mitochondrial matrix calcium levels can reach the tens of micromolar levels during cellular activation.[27] It activates pyruvate dehydrogenase phosphatase which in turn activates the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex. Calcium also activates isocitrate dehydrogenase and α-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase.[28] This increases the reaction rate of many of the steps in the [Krebs] cycle, and therefore increases flux throughout the pathway."

"...Recent work has demonstrated an important link between intermediates of the citric acid cycle and the regulation of hypoxia-inducible factors (HIF). HIF plays a role in the regulation of oxygen homeostasis, and is a transcription factor that targets angiogenesis, vascular remodeling, glucose utilization, iron transport and apoptosis. HIF is synthesized consititutively, and hydroxylation of at least one of two critical proline residues mediates their interaction with the von Hippel Lindau E3 ubiquitin ligase complex, which targets them for rapid degradation. This reaction is catalysed by prolyl 4-hydroxylases. Fumarate and succinate have been identified as potent inhibitors of prolyl hydroxylases, thus leading to the stabilisation of HIF."
 
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tara

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Hi Haidut,
My impression was that more calcium entering the cells was an undesirable consequence of energy deficiency and mineral imbalances/deficiency, and sometimes accompanies dietary calcium deficiency.
So even if some calcium is necessary/useful inside the cells/mitochondria for supporting efficient glucose oxidation, I wouldn't have made the link to this being a reason for eating lots of calcium. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something basic?
 
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haidut

haidut

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tara said:
post 105157 Hi Haidut,
My impression was that more calcium entering the cells was an undesirable consequence of energy deficiency and mineral imbalances/deficiency, and sometimes accompanies dietary calcium deficiency.
So even if some calcium is necessary/useful inside the cells/mitochondria for supporting efficient glucose oxidation, I wouldn't have made the link to this being a reason for eating lots of calcium. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something basic?

Without sufficient dietary calcium, bones will start dissolving and this will raise blood calcium and start calcifying the soft tissues. When you ingest a lot of it then PTH will be low and most of that calcium will go to the bones, leaving only enough in the cells to fuel metabolism. Without eating enough calcium a person will "paradoxically" get a calcium overload symptom and soft tissue calcification.
 
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tara

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haidut said:
post 105254 Without sufficient dietary calcium, bones will start dissolving and this will raise blood calcium and start calcifying the soft tissues. When you ingest a lot of it then PTH will be low and most of that calcium will go to the bones, leaving only enough in the cells to fuel metabolism. Without eating enough calcium a person will "paradoxically" get a calcium overload symptom and soft tissue calcification.
Yes. I'm not disagreeing with the usefulness of a generous dietary calcium for both strong bones and lower soft-tissue calcification.
But I'm not yet seeing the connection between that and your earlier quotes? I understood your quotes to be about the function of calcium inside the cells - and under optimal calcium consumption, I would have expected intracellular calcium to be lower?
 
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jb116

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tara said:
post 105322
haidut said:
post 105254 Without sufficient dietary calcium, bones will start dissolving and this will raise blood calcium and start calcifying the soft tissues. When you ingest a lot of it then PTH will be low and most of that calcium will go to the bones, leaving only enough in the cells to fuel metabolism. Without eating enough calcium a person will "paradoxically" get a calcium overload symptom and soft tissue calcification.
Yes. I'm not disagreeing with the usefulness of a generous dietary calcium for both strong bones and lower soft-tissue calcification.
But I'm not yet seeing the connection between that and your earlier quotes? I understood your quotes to be about the function of calcium inside the cells - and under optimal calcium consumption, I would have expected intracellular calcium to be lower?

hi tara,
intercelluar calcium is more related to how the system as a whole is running. If Co2 is low then positive-charged ions will enter the cell, including sodium and cal.
The other processes such as PTH is correlated to inflammation as well as how well CO2 is utilized. So there is a systematic connection there.

[moderator edit: The discussion about milk and prostate cancer has been moved to: Dairy Intake and Prostate Cancer]

haidut said:
post 105298
jb116 said:
post 105291 As hair it pointed out that study's about protein where the op is about calcium. But now that that has brought up, and yes is OT, it still questions the peaty foundation of milk focus as well as eggs and meat protein. Any thoughts?

There have been actual double blind placebo controlled trials with calcium from both supplement and milk. The trials were for other conditions, so the population was not exactly random but still these trials never found any increase in cancer risk and some of them specifically monitored for that given how bad the reputation of calcium is in some circles. It could be the phosphate in milk/meat that is raising the cancer risk, not the BCAA or calcium.

It would still be an interesting question mark against milk ultimately (btw, I'm an avid milk drinker, this is only out of interest and convo).
Then again, peat has always mentioned milk being ideal because of its good protein but specifically because it has a good phosphate/calcium ratio.
 
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Amazoniac

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@Giraffe - for some reason I think that you'll enjoy it, I don't know exactly why but I guess that the presentation has some of your style..

--
For the angels that are not willing to watch the whole thing, skip to 7:42.
And for those that were interested, open that Youtube channel, it has many relevant presentations related to vit D. For example, Michael Holick's Q&A session about sun and supplements (audio gets better).
 
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CoconutEffect

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I am severely lactose intolerant. The small amounts in Lactaid (99% Lactose free) and in medications cause a stubborn spread of acne across my face.
additional Lactase enzymes don't help
I get even worse acne from eggshsell calcium and calcium carbonate.
Does anyone know another way?
 

HDD

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I am severely lactose intolerant. The small amounts in Lactaid (99% Lactose free) and in medications cause a stubborn spread of acne across my face.
additional Lactase enzymes don't help
I get even worse acne from eggshsell calcium and calcium carbonate.
Does anyone know another way?

Generous servings of well cooked greens like kale and collards.
 

tara

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I get even worse acne from eggshsell calcium and calcium carbonate.
Are you assuming intolerance of these on the basis of association with acne symptoms?

I know acne can be really unpleasant and it might indicate that all is not quite running perfectly, and given a culture than can get overly focussed on appearances, can sometimes draw unpleasant treatment.

I've also heard that it's quite common for people to go through a period of increased acne while raising metabolism (eg this is common after extended severe undereating), possibly similar in some ways to the ways hormones can be a bit out of balance as they come up during puberty with acne as a side-effect, and then settle down again.
If the acne is the only indicator you are going by to suggest intolerance, it may not be a reliable one? This is speculation on my part, not confidence, but mightn't a bit of acne just be an unfortunate temporary side effect of a generally positive trend of improving nutrition and metabolism, and the endocrine system picking up the job of raising and eventually balancing the reproductive hormones? Could even be that the eggshell or other form of Ca carbonate were helpful?

My hunch, and as you know I'm not an expert, would be to consider a range of indicators, including temperature, heart-rate, energy levels, sleep etc, and if these others look like they might be going in the right direction, make sure you keep up all the micronutrients (eg vit-A - eg liver, zinc - eg oysters) and try to live with the acne for a bit, and see if it sorts itself out over a longer period of time?
 
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Generous servings of well cooked greens like kale and collards.

ummm that is not gonna cover it, no where near is that going to cover the calcium requirement.


I am severely lactose intolerant. The small amounts in Lactaid (99% Lactose free) and in medications cause a stubborn spread of acne across my face.
additional Lactase enzymes don't help
I get even worse acne from eggshsell calcium and calcium carbonate.
Does anyone know another way?

what makes u think u are "lactose intolerant"? test your PTH, you could just have a really high PTH and thus you are in glycosis mode... thyroid will inhibit histamine, without thyroid.... hellooooo histamine.. ray has always said vit a blocks acne, how bout dat dere liver
 
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tca300

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I am severely lactose intolerant. The small amounts in Lactaid (99% Lactose free) and in medications cause a stubborn spread of acne across my face.
additional Lactase enzymes don't help
I get even worse acne from eggshsell calcium and calcium carbonate.
Does anyone know another way?

How often do you poop? Constipation is know to cause acne, and calcium can be constipating, especially supplemental powders. Liver/vitamin A? Calcium increases metabolism, and dairy protein uses up vitamin A to a much larger extent than other protein sources. Sometimes if the gut is really messed up vitamin A isn't absorbed and may be more effective to use topically. It can take several weeks of lactose ingestion before the body starts to secrete enough lactase to digest it properly. Raw milk ( If available) can help too, and many have "cured" their life long lactose intolerance by using it because the lactase is still functional.
 

tara

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oxtail bones are edible if cooked enough. anybody doing that?
I've done that in the past, till I read about bones of cattle accumulating lead etc more than some other sources. That's why I'd favour eggshell, oyster shell and/or greens if milk doesn't work.

How often do you poop? Constipation is know to cause acne, and calcium can be constipating, especially supplemental powders. Liver/vitamin A? Calcium increases metabolism, and dairy protein uses up vitamin A to a much larger extent than other protein sources. Sometimes if the gut is really messed up vitamin A isn't absorbed and may be more effective to use topically. It can take several weeks of lactose ingestion before the body starts to secrete enough lactase to digest it properly.

I like those ideas.
 

HDD

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ummm that is not gonna cover it, no where near is that going to cover the calcium requirement.

I don't think it's easy to get enough with greens. Possibly easier if drinking broth from greens but I don't have any idea how to determine the amount of calcium in a broth from greens. Peat has talked about healthy cultures that do well on meat and greens.
----

Sarah: So what are the best sources of calcium to balance increased phosphate intake?

Peat: In plant materials, leaves really are a great source of calcium. Turnip greens, for example, have about 10 times as much calcium as phosphate; others, not quite as much. But then you have to choose your leaves according to the toxins that you want to minimize. The cabbage family is anti-thyroid. And all leaves have a fairly high unsaturated fat content, that can interfere with protein digestion. And so, if you can process the leaves ideally, then you can get very good nutrition out of the leaves, (high protein and high calcium). Otherwise, milk and cheese are pretty much the alternatives sources, unless you want to grind up eggshells (that's basically pure calcium carbonate).

Sarah: I like to recommend nettle leaf steeped over night, because it has a lot of calcium (I think 1000mg per half cup of leaves soaked in a quart of water overnight).

Peat: Yeah. If you boil any of these leaves, turnip leaves, for example, you can just boil them quickly, get out most of the calcium, and then throw away the leaf, and have a good supplement.

------

Sarah: So, an equivalent of 3 pints of milk a day would provide 2000mg of calcium, or a couple of glasses of milk with some eggshell/oyster shell powder or boiled greens. 2000mg calcium would be a good start for helping your calcium levels, while keeping your whole grains, beans and meat, to not more than 8 ounces a day. Or, if you take a quarter teaspoon of eggshell powder 3 times a day with your meals, that's about 2000mg.
KMUD: Phosphate And Calcium Metablolism (2012)
 
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I don't think it's easy to get enough with greens. Possibly easier if drinking broth from greens but I don't have any idea how to determine the amount of calcium in a broth from greens. Peat has talked about healthy cultures that do well on meat and greens.
----

Sarah: So what are the best sources of calcium to balance increased phosphate intake?

Peat: In plant materials, leaves really are a great source of calcium. Turnip greens, for example, have about 10 times as much calcium as phosphate; others, not quite as much. But then you have to choose your leaves according to the toxins that you want to minimize. The cabbage family is anti-thyroid. And all leaves have a fairly high unsaturated fat content, that can interfere with protein digestion. And so, if you can process the leaves ideally, then you can get very good nutrition out of the leaves, (high protein and high calcium). Otherwise, milk and cheese are pretty much the alternatives sources, unless you want to grind up eggshells (that's basically pure calcium carbonate).

Sarah: I like to recommend nettle leaf steeped over night, because it has a lot of calcium (I think 1000mg per half cup of leaves soaked in a quart of water overnight).

Peat: Yeah. If you boil any of these leaves, turnip leaves, for example, you can just boil them quickly, get out most of the calcium, and then throw away the leaf, and have a good supplement.

------

Sarah: So, an equivalent of 3 pints of milk a day would provide 2000mg of calcium, or a couple of glasses of milk with some eggshell/oyster shell powder or boiled greens. 2000mg calcium would be a good start for helping your calcium levels, while keeping your whole grains, beans and meat, to not more than 8 ounces a day. Or, if you take a quarter teaspoon of eggshell powder 3 times a day with your meals, that's about 2000mg.
KMUD: Phosphate And Calcium Metablolism (2012)

nice. i just remember reading off of cronometer or somewhere from my low carb days that i had to eat like an entire massive plate full of kale just to hit calcium requirements. i mean, it was enough to make me want to throw up because i tried to do it.

it looks like you have done some research into it, have you ever run into an upper limit of calcium at all? i know ray has said that quote about some tribe doing 4k mg a day and being fine, i just wonder what happens though at super high amounts. obviously you want PTH lowered a lot.
 

m_arch

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nice. i just remember reading off of cronometer or somewhere from my low carb days that i had to eat like an entire massive plate full of kale just to hit calcium requirements. i mean, it was enough to make me want to throw up because i tried to do it.

Lmao you sound like me. My cronometer diet of liver, oysters and wheat germ oil didn't actually taste that great
 

EIRE24

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ummm that is not gonna cover it, no where near is that going to cover the calcium requirement.




what makes u think u are "lactose intolerant"? test your PTH, you could just have a really high PTH and thus you are in glycosis mode... thyroid will inhibit histamine, without thyroid.... hellooooo histamine.. ray has always said vit a blocks acne, how bout dat dere liver
I have acne and vitamin A does zero in helping it so it isn't as easy as that
 

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