Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium

Cirion

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I lol'd. Nice signature btw @Waremu lol
 

Pulstar

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I also notice calcium helps with with depression. Calcium carbonate is the one I use, I feel it raises dopamine considerably. Unfortunately I always seem to get irritated intestines. I wish there was a way to take calcium carbonate on a regular basis without getting the intestines irritated.
It matches my experience with regards to mood / depression and I also take carbonate. I would also add that calcium really helps with energy and perhaps this is what makes is an "anti depressant?

I have an impression that vitamin D3 might potentiate calcium's mood and energy raising properties. And I suspect that vitamin A might also be involved (not 100% sure though). I took all these 3 (small teaspoon of calcium, A 10 000 iu, D3 5 000 iu + some vitamin C) together 1 day and noticed almost immediate positive effect, which lasted until the next morning, when after 5-6 hours of sleep I woke up in good mood and energy. The thing is that I can't pin point this effect to a particular substance, but suspect that calcium and D3 are major players. Maybe all of them played a role? I would also be careful with too much calcium and it can create some sort of insomnia.
 

Amazoniac

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Is serum calcium level much of an indicator?

The reason I ask is that blood test for me showed - Serum calcium level 2.46 mmol/L [2.2 - 2.6] but I feel my mood improves when I take supplemental calcium carbonate
I don't think so. If you search for causes of hyper or hypocalcemia, you'll find everything but the amount of dietary calcium.
there is little room in which the PTH-vitamin D endocrine system can operate when calcium intakes are already low. That does not mean that ECF [Ca2+] regulation suffers.
Effect of Soil Characteristics on Potato Tuber Minerals Composition of Selected Kenyan Varieties

This one may be a decent source of references : Phosphorus balance in potato tubers - [PDF Document]

I don't know about the reliability of this quote:
Cooking Methods May Help Dialysis Patients Control Phosphorus
"Frying potatoes in oil lowered phosphorus content by 37%, whereas steaming them reduced phosphorus content by 27%. Roasting frozen hake in oil led to a 49% decrease in phosphorus content. Soaking pork in water and then roasting it in oil led to a nearly 12% decrease in phosphorus content. Eliminating the soaking step eliminated this decrease, the investigators noted.

Boiling increased the calcium content in all foods because of calcium absorption from the hard water.."
One could use a high calcium water to steam them, but anytime I used the carbonated one for rice I had problems, although that may have had to do with an anti-acid effect (?). I wonder if steaming would allow for the calcium content to increase without any interference with digestion.

Tyw mentioned that Asians had less of a need for calcium intake, could the lowish phosphorus content of white rice be a reason?
If I'm not wrong, that water content of potatoes is 80%. The reported values in dry weight have to be adjusted for it dividing by 5 (20%). They end up being close to ours.

As far as I know, it's not necessary to use water that's high in calcium, it can be added later on as an ingredient to the meal and it must work just as well.
How would the calcium migrate from water to the food with steaming? Maybe I misunderstooded what you had in the mind.

Is it possible that carbonation makes it more difficult for the water to enter the rice grains? This should not make a difference for steaming.


*2015 - †2017

- Requirements of calcium: are there ethnic differences?

"Oriental people usually have smaller body frame and skeletal mass than Caucasians (it's just a coincidence), it is logical to consider that less mechanical stress, hence lower bone mass, may be required by Oriental women to support their smaller body weight when compared with Caucasians. In fact, studies have shown that racial difference in bone density disappeared after confounding factors of body weight and height were controlled in comparing ethnic difference in bone density[9,46]."

"[..]high intakes of protein and sodium are proven to induce a higher urinary calcium loss[80,81]. In affluent societies a greater allowance for calcium intakes is recommended because of the high consumption of animal proteid and sodium."​

- Ethnic differences in calcium, phosphate and bone metabolism

Don't forget calcium amazoniate
Let's also not forget the [. . . Brewing online victims . . .] calcium astolfate, damngoodcoffeate, elephantate, ilikecate, khaneate, leesimeonate, and lisbonboyate.
 
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Wagner83

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If I'm not wrong, that water content of potatoes is 80%. The reported values in dry weight have to be adjusted for it dividing by 5 (20%). They end up being close to ours.

As far as I know, it's not necessary to use water that's high in calcium, it can be added later on as an ingredient to the meal and it must work just as well.
How would the calcium migrate from water to the food with steaming? Maybe I misunderstooded what you had in the mind.

Is it possible that carbonation makes it more difficult for the water to enter the rice grains? This should not make a difference for steaming.



*2015 - †2017

- Requirements of calcium: are there ethnic differences?

"Oriental people usually have smaller body frame and skeletal mass than Caucasians (it's just a coincidence), it is logical to consider that less mechanical stress, hence lower bone mass, may be required by Oriental women to support their smaller body weight when compared with Caucasians. In fact, studies have shown that racial difference in bone density disappeared after confounding factors of body weight and height were controlled in comparing ethnic difference in bone density[9,46]."

"[..]high intakes of protein and sodium are proven to induce a higher urinary calcium loss[80,81]. In affluent societies a greater allowance for calcium intakes is recommended because of the high consumption of animal proteid and sodium."​

- Ethnic differences in calcium, phosphate and bone metabolism


Let's also not forget the [. . . Brewing online victims . . .] calcium astolfate, damngoodcoffeate, elephantate, ilikecate, khaneate, leesimeonate, and lisbonboyate.
My point was that within the same country some of the variations in the calcium / phosphorus ratio of potatoes are important, I can only imagine what variations there are between different continents, I remember fondly those potatoes from Egypt back in the days of 2016. Fertilisers are worth a thought as well.

Ov course steaming vouln't work, and boiling might give similar issues as with the rice: anti digestive juices effects. There wasn't any problem with water infiltrating the rice. I wonder how carbonated drinks and water affect digestion, some people hate carbonated water.

Thanks for the links.
 
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Waremu

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Study was done on rats, and they were drinking plain distilled water with added calcium. The free info on the study part doesn't explain whether they ate food or not. It just says they were 'maintained', but not sure whether they were fasting on plain calcium water or not. They could have been. That said, there is a big difference between taking isolated minerals and minerals from food. Isolated minerals can cause deficiencies in other minerals, as well as vitamins, etc. Even eating sugar alone can increase serotonin. But natural food sources of sugar, including fruit, generally have enough vitamins, minerals, and amino acids to prevent that, and milk or other natural calcium food sources have other co factors with the calcium, like magnesium, phosphorus, so it's not the same thing as just consuming pure calcium.
 

Amazoniac

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My point was that within the same country some of the variations in the calcium / phosphorus ratio of potatoes are important, I can only imagine what variations there are between different continents, I remember fondly those potatoes from Egypt back in the days of 2016. Fertilisers are worth a thought as well.

Ov course steaming vouln't work, and boiling might give similar issues as with the rice: anti digestive juices effects. There wasn't any problem with water infiltrating the rice. I wonder how carbonated drinks and water affect digestion, some people hate carbonated water.

Thanks for the links.
The variation is a good point.

Check this out:
Nutrient composition of the potato
Béatrice Mouillé, U. Ruth Charrondière, Barbara Burlingame, NeBambi Lutaladio (..in case it goes the broke. It will.)

I guess what we can conclude from these is that on the best situation you'll still have an undesirable ratio, at least twice as much phosphorus than calcium, but likely much worse given that their sample size for calcium was large and the maximum was considerably lower than the minimum for phosphorus. It's preferable to just suppose that it is always like that and make up for it elsewhere.
 

Wagner83

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The variation is a good point.

Check this out:
Nutrient composition of the potato
Béatrice Mouillé, U. Ruth Charrondière, Barbara Burlingame, NeBambi Lutaladio (..in case it goes the broke. It will.)

I guess what we can conclude from these is that on the best situation you'll still have an undesirable ratio, at least twice as much phosphorus than calcium, but likely much worse given that their sample size for calcium was large and the maximum was considerably lower than the minimum for phosphorus. It's preferable to just suppose that it is always like that and make up for it elsewhere.
Yes without dark leafy greens it's almost impossible to end up with a nice ratio, so perhaps doing other tubers and rice as starchy foods would be more manageable, the rice doesn't increase the phophorus content as much.

Those variations are huge, the differences in protein content are impressive.
 

Amazoniac

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There are some points that have been discussed before but I figured it was worth including them for reinforcement in different words.

Modern nutrition in wealth and disease (978-1-60547-461-8):

upload_2019-2-9_8-22-52.png


"Calcium usually is freed from complexes in the diet during digestion and is released in a soluble and typically ionized form for absorption. However! Small-molecular-weight complexes such as calcium oxalate and calcium carbonate can be absorbed intact (6)."

"Calcium absorption occurs by two pathways (Fig. 7.2 [not shown]):

1. Transcellular: This saturable (active) transfer involves a calcium-binding protein, calbindin.
2. Paracellular: This nonsaturable (diffusional) transfer is a linear function of calcium content of the chyme.
The relationship between calcium intake and absorbed calcium is shown in Figure 7.3. At lower calcium intakes, the active component contributes most to absorbed calcium. The Michaelis-Menten constant (Km) for the active component in adults is calculated to be 3.2 to 5.5 mM (equivalent to a calcium load of 230 to 400 mg) (3). As calcium intakes increase and the active component becomes saturated, an increasing proportion of calcium is absorbed by passive diffusion."

upload_2019-2-9_8-21-48.png

"Active absorption is most efficient in the duodenum and next in the jejunum, but total calcium absorbed is greatest in the ileum, where residence time is the longest. In one rat study, net calcium absorption was distributed as 62% in the ileum, 23% in the jejunum, and 15% in the duodenum (11)."

"Various host factors affect fractional calcium absorption. Vitamin D status, intestinal transit time, and mucosal mass are the best established (23). Phosphorus deficiency, as may occur through prolonged use of aluminum- containing antacids, can cause hypophosphatemia, increased circulating levels of 1,25(OH)2D, and elevated calcium absorption.

Stage of life also influences calcium absorption. In infancy, absorption is dominated by diffusion. Therefore, the vitamin D status of the mother does not affect fractional calcium absorption of young breast-fed infants. Both active and passive calcium transport is increased during pregnancy and lactation. Calbindin and plasma 1,25(OH)2 and PTH levels increase during pregnancy. From midlife onward, absorption efficiency declines by approximately 0.2 absorption percentage points per year, and at menopause, an additional 2% decrease occurs (24). Decreased calcium absorption efficiency with age is related to increased intestinal resistance to 1,25(OH)2D, as illustrated by a steeper slope in the relationship between fractional calcium absorption and serum 1,25(OH)2D3 in elderly postmenopausal women than in young premenopausal women (25). The age-related decrease in calcium absorption from intestinal resistance to 1,25(OH)2D3 has been associated with decreased VDR levels (26), as well as with reduced estrogen levels (23)."

upload_2019-2-9_8-22-4.png

"Decreased stomach acid, as occurs in achlorhydria, reduces the solubility of insoluble calcium salts (e.g., carbonate, phosphate) and thus could, in theory, reduce absorption of calcium unless fed with a meal (27). Absorption of calcium supplements improves when they are taken with food irrespective of gastric acid status, perhaps by slowing gastric emptying and thereby extending the time in which the calcium-containing chyme is in contact with the absorptive surface.

VDR polymorphisms have been studied for their relationship with calcium absorption efficiency. One study showed a significant association between the VDR Fok1 polymorphism and calcium absorption in children (28)."

"[..]a major determinant of urinary calcium is urinary sodium, which reflects dietary sodium (58, 59). Sodium and calcium share some of the same transport systems in the proximal tubule. In adults, each 100 mmol (2.3 g) increment of sodium excreted by the kidney pulls out approximately 0.6 to 1.0 mmol (24 to 40 mg) of accompanying calcium (60). Because urinary calcium losses account for 50% of the variability in calcium retention, dietary sodium has a tremendous potential to influence bone loss at suboptimal calcium intakes in women; each extra gram of sodium per day is projected to produce an additional rate of bone loss of 1% per year if the calcium loss in the urine comes from the skeleton (61). A longitudinal study of postmenopausal women showed a negative correlation between urinary sodium excretion and bone density of the hip (58). The investigators concluded, from the range of values available to them, that bone loss could have been prevented by either a daily dietary calcium increase of 891 mg calcium or by halving the daily sodium intake."

"Another dietary component that influences urinary calcium excretion is protein. Each gram of protein metabolized increases urinary calcium by approximately 1 mg; thus, doubling purified dietary proteins or amino acids in the diet increases urinary calcium by approximately 50% (64). The acid load of the sulfate produced in the metabolism of sulfur-containing amino acids that produces acid ash is mainly responsible for this increase. However, a metaanalysis concluded that little evidence exists for the acid ash effect on calcium balance (65). Increases in calcium absorption (66), decreases in endogenous secretion (67), or the hypocalciuric effect of phosphorus in high-protein foods can offset the hypercalciuric effect of protein. At the other extreme, inadequate protein intakes compromise bone health and contribute to osteoporosis in elderly persons (68). There appear to be dietary protein–calcium interactions such that calcium absorption increases to offset the calciuric effects of high dietary protein more at low than at high calcium intakes (69). The benefits of calcium supplementation in mitigating bone loss in elderly persons are greater with higher protein intakes, however (70)."

"Hypercalcemia, metabolic alkalosis, and possibly renal insufficiency have been increasing, especially in postmenopausal and pregnant women with a history of excessive (typically 4 g/day) ingestion of supplemental calcium and often absorbable alkali, which raise the pH of the urine and predisposes to calcium deposits in the kidneys (139). Elderly persons are vulnerable to this “calcium alkali syndrome” because they are in a state of net bone resorption in which bone is less of a reservoir for buffering against excess calcium. Pregnant women who have enhanced calcium absorption and volume depletion may also be vulnerable."​
 

schultz

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I don’t think insects are a good form of calcium

I have read this as well and it surprised me. I was researching bats and this study was trying to see if bats timed their reproduction with seasonal availability of calcium. In the paper it says "Insects are a particularly poor source of cacium (1-4 mg/g; Studier et al. 1994a) ..." I have not looked at the cited study.

Bats of course are mammals and lactate to feed their young. Apparently insectivorous bats experience periods of calcium stress from pregnancy and lactation. I imagine calcium would be an important nutrient for any mammal given that mammals produce milk for their young.

For some reason I am under the impression worms are a good source of calcium, though I may be wrong.
 

Kartoffel

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Amazoniac

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That adds a whole new dimension to "cleaning the gut" what do you think will be the effect of these fatty acid soaps (with regard to endotoxin)?
That's Raj's finding.

It must be part of the reason why I haven't been finding fat experiments as interesting. You can have the same fatty acid composition in two different meals and their effect can be quite different. And even if they're not, applying it in practice translates into selecting your foods based on 'theoresical nutrition' (Peat, 2010) and we know that this usually doesn't end up well. We might switch fats but lose a lot of valuable nutrients that were packed with it along.

But boring poetry aside, have you read this post?
- Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium

It would be great to know if those minerals are capable of complexing with the lipids of endotoxins to prevent their adsorption. From what I read, it's common for them to be saturated fats having chains of 10-14 carbons. Perhaps it's possible and they is fine candidates, but I'm not sure.

- Bacteria, Membranes And Environmental Challenges
 

Kartoffel

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That's Raj's finding.

It must be part of the reason why I haven't been finding fat experiments as interesting. You can have the same fatty acid composition in two different meals and their effect can be quite different. And even if they're not, applying it in practice translates into selecting your foods based on 'theoresical nutrition' (Peat, 2010) and we know that this usually doesn't end up well. We might switch fats but lose a lot of valuable nutrients that were packed with it along.

But boring poetry aside, have you read this post?
- Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium

It would be great to know if those minerals are capable of complexing with the lipids of endotoxins to prevent their adsorption. From what I read, it's common for them to be saturated fats having chains of 10-14 carbons. Perhaps it's possible and they is fine candidates, but I'm not sure.

- Bacteria, Membranes And Environmental Challenges

Now I have. I'd never really thought about Ray's comment on calcium and that it supresses bacterial growth - now it makes a little more sense. They mention that the saponification process is strongest when you have lots of calcium and saturated fat. So, now convince me that cheese is not the perfect antibacterial snack ;)

I think the hydroxy fatty acids of the lipid A component are predominently saturated and monounsaturated, but I haven't really looked into this. Certain bacteria, especially the lactic acid producing strains, produce large amounts of hydroxy fatty acids from PUFA, and high levels of hydroxy fa are seen in steatorrhea. Linoleic acid, for example, increases the excretion of 10-hydroxy-12-octadecaenoic acid (a hydroxy fatty acid with stearic acid ). Thus, I am not sure how good an increae in lactobacilli is when they synergize with PUFA. The effect of PUFA on the production on hydroxy fatty acids might be why Ray frequently mentions that PUFA favour bacterial growth.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...13/&num=1003&usg=AOvVaw1apb_f95yEM9hPdrWEzlJT
 
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Logan-

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Why Ray Peat emphasizes the importance of adequate vitamin D levels very often:

In calcium homeostasis 1,25-(OH)2D works in conjunction with parathyroid hormone (PTH) to produce its beneficial effects on the plasma levels of ionised calcium and phosphate (5, 13). The physiologic loop (Figure 10) starts with calcium sensing by the calcium receptor of the parathyroid gland (14). When the level of ionised calcium in plasma falls, PTH is secreted by the parathyroid gland and stimulates the tightly regulated renal enzyme 25-OH-D-1-aa-hydroxylase to make more 1,25-(OH)2D from the large circulating pool of 25-OH-D. The resulting increase in 1,25-(OH)2D (with the rise in PTH) causes an increase in calcium transport within the intestine, bone, and kidney. All these events raise plasma calcium levels back to normal, that in turn is sensed by the calcium receptor of the parathyroid gland. The further secretion of PTH is turned off not only by the feedback action of calcium, but also by a short feedback loop involving 1,25-(OH)2D directly suppressing PTH synthesis in the parathyroid gland (not shown in figure).

Although this model oversimplifies the events involved in calcium homeostasis it is easy to see from it that sufficient 25-OH-D must be available to provide adequate 1,25-(OH)2D synthesis and hence an adequate level of plasma calcium and that vitamin D deficiency will result in inadequate 25-OH-D and 1,25-(OH)2D synthesis, inadequate calcium homeostasis, and a constantly elevated PTH level (termed: secondary hyperparathyroidism).

Chapter 8. Vitamin D
 
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