Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
"Calcium supplementation reduced the soluble bile acid and fatty acid concentration in ileal lavages and in faecal water, resulting in concomitantly decreased luminal cytotoxicity, as measured with a bioassay. This coincided with significantly higher numbers of lactobacilli in the intestinal tract: in the intestinal lumen as well as adhering to the intestinal mucosa (Bovee-Oudenhoven et al., 1999). Probably due to the absence of an extra outer-membrane, the Gram-positive lactobacilli appeared to be very sensitive to the bactericidal activity of bile acids and fatty acids, as shown in additional in vitro experiments. In contrast, the viability of a Gram-negative pathogen, like S. enteritidis was totally unaffected by physiologically relevant concentrations of these surfactants (Bovee-Oudenhoven et al., 1999). "​

--
- Calcium supplements: benefits and risks

I find reacted eggshells more agreeable, can think of ways for it to go wrong, but none of them is enough to explain the harsh adverse effects that are sometimes reported on the line, these are puzzling. It's supposed to dissociate in the stomach, afterwards its original form makes no difference because it could in theory reform with whatever's viable from the meal. Therefore, it may be something before dissociation (directly related to acid-base balance) or after (involving the ligand).

There are experiments posted on the forum where the impact on acid-base balance was more localized rather than systemic. Concentrating the effect in one place isn't when when the region is already burdened, for example, in the kidneys it can worsen your proneness to develop stones. It may also lead to unwanted killcification.

Using up nutrients is unlikely because the other salts are absorbed equally or better, unless it's to correct the imposed disturbance on acid-base balance.

Potent phosphate binder is not the case, other forms are superior in this regard while being gentler.

But low phosphate elevates killcitriol and balancing will occur after absorption.
If you have elevated killcitriol or intestines with poor integrity, does it increase the chances of absorption of insoluble salts against odds?
- Absorption of calcium oxalate does not require dissociation in rats

In case of an infestation, this crap does support biofilm formation and the carboxylates should help in counteracting. It may coat the intestines just like it can aggravate tongue coating if it's retained for a while, and the organic acid salts should mitigate.
- Magnesium and calcium ions: roles in bacterial cell attachment and biofilm structure maturation

With ingested venom D, it may pull the killcified coating and lead to detrimental effects. If there's inflammation present, it might activate the toxin locally and complicate the situation. This is hippie speculation. ☮

Neutralizing short-chain fatty acids is another potential concern that has been discussed. Anything that binds to it should ease these effects for as long as the binder is not absorbed: phosphate, taurine, fatty acids.

@Hans, you've mentioned before a few people getting 'destroyed' from eggshells. Were they clients? We need detailed experiences to understand what's going on.
@sunraiser


In restaurants they add milch to lemonade to make it milder, it's possible to replace it with eggshells to the desired taste (along with sweetener and sea salt). I tried and it's good, carbonated water was used. We find discussions on magnesium and killcium ratios everywhere but rarely potassium or water in relation to it.

If you have issues with gelatin, you might have with eggshell as well (although to a much lesser extent); there are small amounts of sulfurous collagen and residual membrane. You can try industrial killcium carbonate from rocks a few times for comparison. But insisting on this is a good way to correct it without overwhelming immunity.
 
Last edited:

Hans

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
5,856
@Hans, you've mentioned before a few people getting 'destroyed' from eggshells. Were they clients? We need detailed experiences to understand what's going on.
Nope, just some testimonials on the forum here.
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
Noice. Do you think calcium malate would be a big improvement compared to calcium citrate?
No, not much.

You have more flexibility with basic molecules for increasing the possible fates and doing useful with them.. when things are operating right. When not, it's better to use those that are more specific to prevent them from being channeled to where you don't want. This should apply to organic acids.

It also depends on where they're preferentially metabolized once ingested in spite of the amounts being compatible with what cycles in the body.

But there has to be a reason why they started to produce killcium citrate malate instead of keeping it simple as one or the other. These start to taste unappleI mean, unappealing when too concentrated, may be to discourage the consumption of an amount that overwhelms the metabolism, making it preferable to distribute them at high intakes.

Taste is a reliable guide (when something is off). Killciol is tasteless, therefore useless. Unreacted eggshells taste like the remainings of a cadaver, it hints the victim where things are heading on insistence of ingestion.

"Chemical formula of CCM and its component anions
  • Citric acid: C6H8O7
  • Malic acid: C4H6O5
  • Calcium citrate malate: Ca6(C6H5O7)2(C4H4O5)3 (e.g., hexa-Ca dicitrate trimalate or the anhydrous form of the 6:2:3 molar ratio fully neutralized salt)."
"CCM does not have a single chemical formula, but rather can be formulated to yield a range of compositions with varying Ca:citrate:malate molar ratios that bracket compositions corresponding to the fully-neutralized salt. CCM molar ratios of 6:2:3, 5:2:2, and 8:2:5 form neutral Ca salts with slightly different solubilities (Fox et al., 1993b). Partial neutralization by Ca and even a slight excess of Ca are also options, such that the molar ratios 4:2:3 and 5:1:1 form slightly acidic and basic CCM salts, respectively. Numerous states of hydration of CCM powder are possible and as few as two to as many as 16–20H2O molecules may be present (Fox et al., 1993a)."


"CCM is formed by neutralization of an alkaline Ca source with citric and malic acids. The alkaline Ca source can be Ca hydroxide (Ca(OH)2), Ca carbonate (CaCO3), or Ca oxide (CaO). The neutralization reactions involved in the formation of the neutral 6:2:3 molar ratio CCM salt from Ca(OH)2 and CaCO3 are as follows:
  • 6Ca(OH)2 + 2(C6H8O7) + 3(C4H6O5) → Ca6(C6H5O7)2(C4H4O5)3 + 12H2O
  • 6CaCO3 + 2(C6H8O7) + 3(C4H6O5) → Ca6(C6H5O7)2(C4H4O5)3 + 6H2O + 6CO2
In many cases, Ca(OH)2 is a preferred Ca source for CCM formation because CO2 is not produced as a byproduct of the neutralization, as it is when CaCO3 is a reactant. If CaCO3 is used as a starting material, the evolution of CO2 gas that occurs as CCM is formed needs to be considered and controlled."

"Citric acid and malic acid are first dissolved in water with mixing at the desired concentrations according to the target molar ratio of CCM being produced. Complete solubilization of the citric and malic acids together prior to reaction with the alkaline Ca source ensures the simultaneous availability of the two acids during the neutralization reaction. The required amount of an alkaline Ca source (Ca(OH)2, CaCO3, or CaO) is dispersed in a separate quantity of water in another vessel to produce a slurry of the material. The slurry of the Ca source is then added with mixing to the solution of citric and malic acids under a controlled rate of addition. After addition of the slurry, the blend is cooled with mixing and allowed to age for a period of time to allow the neutralization reaction to go to completion. A neutral CCM salt is formed when the weights of alkaline Ca source, citric acid, and malic acid correspond to 6, 2, and 3 moles, respectively. As neutralization proceeds and CCM is formed, the resulting solution eventually becomes saturated and CCM precipitates as a solid. The CCM is recovered by separating it from the supernatant liquid by means of decantation, filtration, or centrifugation methods. The material is then dried at temperatures ideally not exceeding 100 C using a conventional drying process to yield CCM powder with moisture content <10% by wt. The resulting dried salt is a stable powder form of CCM that can be milled to the desired mesh size (which typically ranges between 6 and 50 microns) most appropriate for the intended application (Fox et al., 1993b)."

"Another approach for fortifying liquid foods such as beverages with CCM is to form the CCM complex in situ by allowing the neutralization reaction to proceed directly within the product itself. This is accomplished by adding the individual reactants to the beverage in the proper proportion and order of addition (e.g., citric and malic acids, followed by the alkaline Ca source). If the liquid food or beverage inherently contains citric and/or malic acid (e.g., orange and apple juices), the level of acids naturally present should be considered in terms of formulating to yield a given CCM molar ratio in the finished product. The in situ approach is the manner in which commercially available CCM-fortified OJ is manufactured, with additional citric and malic acids added to complement the levels naturally occurring in OJ and Ca(OH)2 added as the Ca source."

"It is important to remember that the effectiveness of any fortified food product fundamentally depends on its palatability." "Ca citrate can be very acidic [?] and convey a slight bitter note. Ca acetate can impart a vinegary taste. A soapy flavor may be detected with Ca carbonate, particularly when it is added to a food system with high pH and fat (Wade, 2004)."

upload_2020-3-4_15-8-20.png

"A Ca salt ingested in the presence of food versus the same salt consumed on an empty stomach will usually be better absorbed with food regardless of the salt’s solubility index. The solubility properties of a specific Ca salt tend to influence just how big the differential is for absorption between the fed and unfed state."

"Ca can interact with free ionized carboxylic groups on certain nonstarch food polysaccharides, including alginates, pectins, gellan, and xanthan gums and, hence, influence the textural and rhelogical (i.e., flow) properties. The impact on texture and flow may either be positive or negative depending on the specific product application. Ca can also interact with protein molecules, especially in the presence of heat, leading to poor dispersion stability, sedimentation, flocculation, or gelation."

"It is not unusual for chiropractors to visualize undissolved CaCO3 tablets on radiographs in the lower intestine during lumbar spine examinations (Cook, 1994)."

"[..]given that Ca has a high radiodensity, roentgenographs or x-rays were also used to confirm the presence of undisintegrated CaCO3 tablet remnants in stool samples collected for 48-h postdosing."

"Citrate and malate anions are absorbed in the upper digestive tract (Demigne et al., 2004). Other substances used in this capacity and which facilitate mineral absorption include ethanolamine phosphate, ascorbate, fumarate, succinate, lysinate, glycerate, picolinate, and acetate (Anonymous, 2007). In contrast, carbonate and oxides tend to exert a detrimental effect on mineral absorption (Dawson-Hughes et al., 1986; Prather and Miller, 1992; Seligman et al., 1983)."

"[..]it has been demonstrated in vivo that dissociation of a Ca salt, with a low MW, neutral charge, and comparatively lower solubility, is not necessarily a prerequisite for absorption since paracellular diffusion of intact Ca oxalate (MW 128.10) and CaCO3 salts (MW 100.09) can occur (Hanes et al., 1999). Ca chelated to an amino acid (i.e., bisglycinocalcium or Ca bis-glycinate, MW 188.20) has also been shown to be absorbed intact (Heaney et al., 1990a). CCM is a large soluble salt with a MW> 1000 (i.e., MW 1014.90 for the anhydrous form of CCM with a 6:2:3 molar ratio of Ca:citrate:malate), which may be too large to traverse tight paracellular cellular junctions. The overall effect(s) exerted as a consequence of intact Ca salts being absorbed and entering the general circulation or reaching a target organ is uncertain (e.g., Ca oxalate in the kidneys). Citrate and malate anions chelated to Ca in CCM are considered to enhance Ca absorption (Weaver and Liebman, 2002), possibly by forming relatively stable soluble complexes, such that precipitation of Ca by phosphate in the gut is not chemically favored and the likelihood of Ca absorption is improved."

"Body size and statural height have a direct effect on the length of the intestinal tract, intestinal transit time, and mucosal mass, all of which impact Ca absorption because they lengthen exposure to absorptive surfaces. A height [difference] of 4 inches in women can result in a 30% increase in Ca absorptive potential (Barger-Lux and Heaney, 2005), while smaller increases in Ca absorption attributable to height in young girls have also been observed (i.e., 3–3.5%) (Abrams et al., 2005c). A larger mucosal mass has been shown to be a direct determinant of Ca absorptive transport capacity in rats (Yeh and Aloia, 1984), and the trend is presumed to be similar in humans (Barger-Lux and Heaney, 2005). The general health of the intestinal mucosa (e.g., the absence of inflammatory bowel conditions such as colitis, Crohn’s disease) is also important for maximizing Ca absorption."​

Also, how much are you getting paid by the citric acid industry to say that?
Nothing, I get paid by the anti-carbonate industry and it's humiliating. However, I would probably promote their cause regardless of payment: why avoid alternatives that don't tax digestion (may already be compromised) when you can? Convenience is the best justification since the person has to be high to use it for systemic body alkalinization (it's crappy in this regard), can't argue that it's for fear of contaminants given that they can be homemade, and the ligands aren't useless, they help to enhance uptake, prevent adverse killcification, improve other aspects of metabolism that eventually reflect on killcium handling, and so on.

Kombucha ist zo 2019, the latest trends are Calcicha and Limeaid: the reviewless beverages because it's the first and last time trying them. Both vinegar and lime juice require dilution to become palatable, it can be done with carbonated wasser, and then sweetened. Afterwards it's the fatal phase: experimenting adding killcium carbonate to preference (that is, how fast you want the fatality) prior to wasser.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
1,790
No, not much.

You have more flexibility with basic molecules for increasing the possible fates and doing useful with them.. when things are operating right. When not, it's better to use those that are more specific to prevent them from being channeled to where you don't want. This should apply to organic acids.

It also depends on where they're preferentially metabolized once ingested in spite of the amounts being compatible with what cycles in the body.

But there has to be a reason why they started to produce killcium citrate malate instead of keeping it simple as one or the other. These start to taste unappleI mean, unappealing when too concentrated, may be to discourage the consumption of an amount that overwhelms the metabolism, making it preferable to distribute them at high intakes.

Taste is a reliable guide (when something is off). Killciol is tasteless, therefore useless. Unreacted eggshells taste like the remainings of a cadaver, it hints the victim where things are heading on insistence of ingestion.
I see. Thanks for answering. I tried calcium acetate and it burned my throat, so I went back to calcium citrate. Calcium citrate malate tasted pretty sour last time I took it( 3 years ago). Calcium citrate tastes quite neutral. I don't notice any sour taste from it( tasteless= useless? Perhaps tasteless= harmless?). About calcium carbonate, I think it would cause death by indigestion upon insistence, at least for me.
Nothing, I get paid by the anti-carbonate industry and it's humiliating. However, I would probably promote their cause regardless of payment: why avoid alternatives that don't tax digestion (may already be compromised) when you can? Convenience is the best justification since the person has to be high to use it for systemic body alkalinization (it's crappy in this regard), can't argue that it's for fear of contaminants given that they can be homemade, and the ligands aren't useless, they help to enhance uptake, prevent adverse killcification, improve other aspects of metabolism that eventually reflect on killcium handling, and so on.

Kombucha ist zo 2019, the latest trends are Calcicha and Limeaid: the reviewless beverages because it's the first and last time trying them. Both vinegar and lime juice require dilution to become palatable, it can be done with carbonated wasser, and then sweetened. Afterwards it's the fatal phase: experimenting adding killcium carbonate to preference (that is, how fast you want the fatality) prior to wasser.
I'm glad you disclosed that. What about fumaric acid?
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- Mitochondria as all-round players of the calcium game
I'm glad you disclosed that. What about fumaric acid?
I'm not aware of any reason to favor it, I would choose instead succinate or malate (at least it's found in substantial amounts in the diet). By basic I meant central in metabolism.

There's this publication that I came across but haven't read, might interest you:
- Absorption of Calcium Fumarate Salts Is Equivalent to Other Calcium Salts When Measured in the Rat Model
 
Last edited:

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- Effectiveness of resistance training or jumping-exercise to increase bone mineral density in men with low bone mass: a 12-month randomized, clinical trial
Abstract said:
Purpose
To examine the effects of 12 mo of resistance training (RT, 2x/wk, N= 19) or jump training (JUMP, 3x/wk, N= 19) on bone mineral density (BMD) and bone turnover markers (BTM) in physically active (≥4 hr/wk) men (mean age: 44 ± 2 y; median: 44 y) with osteopenia of the hip or spine.

Methods
Participants rated pain and fatigue following each RT or JUMP session. All participants received supplemental calcium (1200 mg/d) and vitamin D (10 μg/d). BMD was measured at 0, 6, and 12 mo using DXA scans of the whole body (WB), total hip (TH) and lumbar spine (LS). BTM and 25 OHD were measured by ELISA. The effects of RT or JUMP on BMD and BTM were evaluated using 3×2 repeated measures ANOVA (time, group). This study was conducted in accordance with the Declaration of Helsinki and was approved by the University of Missouri IRB.

Results
At baseline, 36 of 38 participants were vitamin D sufficient (25OHD>50 nmol/L); at 12 mo, all participants were 25OHD sufficient. 25OHD did not differ between groups. WB and LS BMD significantly increased after 6 months of RT or JUMP and this increase was maintained at 12 mo; TH BMD increased only in RT. Osteocalcin increased significantly after 12 mo of RT or JUMP; CTx decreased significantly after 6 mo and returned to baseline concentrations at 12 mo in both RT and JUMP. Pain and fatigue ratings after RT or JUMP sessions were very low at 0, 6, and 12 mo.

Conclusion
RT or JUMP, which appeared safe and feasible, increased BMD of the whole body and lumbar spine, while RT also increased hip BMD, in moderately active, osteopenic men.
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- Glutathione depleting drugs, antioxidants and intestinal calcium absorption

"A poor intestinal absorption caused by infection, inflammation or a pathology in the intestine morphology may cause an adverse Ca2+ balance[4], which under chronic conditions leads to a deleterious bone mineralization."

"Although calcitriol is the main regulator of intestinal Ca2+ absorption, other hormones also contribute to altering this process as parathyroid hormone, glucocorticoids, estrogen, growth hormone, etc. In addition, many dietary and pharmacological compounds also modify the intestinal Ca2+ transport[20]. We have demonstrated that the normal content of the tripeptide glutathione (GSH) in enterocytes is essential for an optimal intestinal Ca2+ absorption, which was proved either in birds or in mammals[21,22]."

"Many years ago, Mårtensson et al[46] demonstrated that GSH was required for intestinal function. They observed that chronic depletion of mucosal GSH by buthionine sulfoximine (BSO), a specific inhibitor of GCL[47], caused severe degeneration of epithelial cells from jejunum and colon, which was prevented by oral GSH or GSH monoester. We have shown that BSO alters the Ca2+ transfer from intestinal lumen-to-blood in vitamin D supplemented chicks but does not affect that of vitamin D-deficient chicks, which indicate that the effects of BSO on intestinal Ca2+ absorption were dependent on the vitamin D status of the animal. The reversibility of this inhibition was proved by adding GSH monoester, an indication that intestinal GSH is essential to have an optimal intestinal Ca2+ absorption[21]."

"[..]any drug or disease associated with intestinal GSH depletion causes inhibition of intestinal Ca2+ absorption. This response is mediated by OS/nitrosative stress and inflammation, which could lead to cell death of enterocytes with capability to transport Ca2+ across the cells and in the paracellular route."

"The first approaches to revert or prevent the inhibition of intestinal Ca2+ absorption caused by GSH depletion consisted in the use of GSH monoester in order to replenish the intestine with the tripeptide[21]. In fact, this treatment leads to the normalization of the intestinal Ca2+ absorption. In addition, other strategies were also assayed because the intestinal GSH depletion could be generated not only by drugs but also by pathological conditions such as cholestasis and metabolic syndrome[58,63]."


"The flavonoids quercetin and naringin highly abrogate the inhibition of intestinal Ca2+ absorption, not only by restoration of the GSH levels in the intestine but also by their anti-apoptotic properties. Ursodeoxycholic acid, melatonin and glutamine also block the inhibition of Ca2+ transport caused by GSH depleting drugs. The use of any of these antioxidants to ameliorate the intestinal Ca2+ absorption under oxidant conditions associated with different pathologies in humans requires more investigation with regards to the safety, pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of them."​

--
- Severe hypercalcemia after transition from calcium carbonate to calcium citrate in an elderly woman treated with ergocalciferol 50,000 IU per day
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- Long-latency deficiency disease: insights from calcium and vitamin D [Robert Proulx Heaney, MD (1927–2016)*]
⬑ [14] Calcium paradox disease: calcium deficiency prompting secondary hyperparathyroidism and cellular calcium overload (!)

*It's depressing when you find a list of publications by an author and there's no continuation. In his case there are a few recent ones, but we know that soon there won't be.

- Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium (excellent chapter by him)
- Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium
 
Last edited:

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- Biological effect of hydrolyzed collagen on bone metabolism

"In addition to a direct modulation of bone cells, HC has been shown to improve calcium absorption, another very important mechanism for preserving bone capital (G. H. Kim et al., 1998). Indeed, epidemiological, isotopic, and meta-analysis studies suggest that dietary protein works synergistically with calcium to improve calcium retention and bone metabolism (Kerstetter et al., 2011)."​

- Hydrolyzed Collagen—Sources and Applications
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- Calcium and Viruses

"The Ca2+ signaling system undergoes constant remodeling to meet the specific spatiotemporal requirements in a flexible yet precise manner. This flexibility, on the one hand, allows the host cell to adjust to various stimuli, such as viral infection. On the other hand, viruses may take advantage of the universal Ca2+ signal to create a tailored cellular environment to meet their own demands (Fig. 1)."

"Viruses choose Ca2+, instead of other metal ions (e.g., Mg2+, K+, Na+), to benefit their own life cycles because of the irreplaceable and important physiochemical and physiological nature of Ca2+:

First, Ca2+ has been chosen by nature through evolution as a versatile second messenger to regulate almost all cellular events. Evolving as intimate intracellular parasites that are adept at hijacking the host cell machinery, viruses can conveniently target Ca2+ signals to affect a diverse range of downstream effectors and pathways to maximize virus replication, while still achieving their coexistence with host cells.

Second, a >10,000-fold gradient of Ca 2+ is maintained across the plasma membrane, which is substantially larger than the dynamic range of monovalent K+ and Na+ (<100-fold) and Mg2+ (<10-fold) in mammalian cells. This enables the viruses to easily manipulate Ca2+ gradients between membranous compartments to transduce information encoded by any particular spatiotemporal Ca2+ pattern.

Third, acute change of K+ and Na+ at the millimolar range is more likely to cause osmotic shock and/or to abruptly disrupt membrane potential than the change of Ca2+ (at nM or mM level), thereby circumventing these detrimental effects on host cells."​

"Viruses appropriate or hijack the Ca2+ signaling network in various ways that favor virus entry, virus replication, virion assembly, maturation, and/or release (Zhou et al. 2009; Chami et al. 2006). The common scenarios encountered during virus Ca2+ interplays, as summarized and briefly exemplified in the following paragraphs, include the following:
  • Viral proteins disrupt Ca2+ homeostasis by altering membrane permeability and/or manipulating key components of the Ca2+-signaling toolkit.
  • Ca2+ directly binds to viral proteins to maintain structural integrity or functionality.
  • Critical virus-host interactions depend on cellular Ca2+-regulated proteins or pathways."
"Most often, albeit not always, viral infection tends to cause an increase in [Ca2+]CYT by using strategies outlined below. The modest increase of [Ca2+]CYT may benefit the life cycle of viruses in the following ways:

First, a modestly elevated [Ca2+]CYT would activate or accelerate a number of Ca2+-dependent enzymatic processes in the cytosol, as well as Ca2+-sensitive transcriptional factors (e.g., NFAT), to promote virus replication or to establish persistent infection. The Ca2+ released from ER can be readily uptaken by mitochondria. A modest increase in mitochondrial matrix Ca2+ may activate Ca2+-dependent Krebs cycle dehydrogenases and increase production of ATP, thereby meeting a higher demand for energy to aid virus replication.

Second, the decrease of Ca2+ in ER and Golgi complex disrupt the protein trafficking and sorting pathways, which effectively perturb the host defense mechanism against viral infection by alleviating host antiviral immune responses and escaping premature clearance by the host. Intracellular accumulation of ER or Golgi-derived secretory vesicles, where viral RNA replication takes place for some RNA viruses (e.g., enteroviruses as discussed below), creates a microcosmic environment favoring viral replication.

Third, Ca2+-flux between ER and mitochondria plays a critical role in determining the fate of host cells when exposed to apoptotic stimuli, such as viral infections. Modulation of ER-mitochondria Ca2+ coupling may either prevent apoptosis or induce apoptosis, depending on the stages of the viral life cycle and types of viruses. Apoptosis is usually elicited as an innate defense mechanism to counteract viral infection and control virus production. In general, an anti-apoptotic strategy is employed by the viral to prevent host immune clearance and promote virus replication in the early or middle stage of infection. Meanwhile, a viral infection may induce apoptosis to aid egress of virions to the outside and dissemination of progeny at a later stage."​

- Viral calciomics: Interplays between Ca2+ and virus (their detailed article)

If I was a virus, I would try to infect someone's brain and trick it into believing that the best place to live is near an antenna reasoning that it's because the apartment has a nice view. It's a great deal, the host ends up happy (for a while) and so do we. When the mistake is perceived, we would eventually be at risk of being eradicated: time to convince that what's needed is a vacation to escape the stressful routine, perhaps Spring Break so that me and my friends can restart the cycle in another distracted victim. It's not bad as it sounds, we'd only be borrowing the person for a while, nothing too serious, contrary to others.. :crown:

Killcium tends to normalize venomoids in the body, and although its requirements may be elevated in sickness, given that killcitriol analogs that doesn't have a killcemic action sometimes work in managing conditions, it makes us wonder if there's a purpose to malabsorption because it will increase killciol metabolites that are able to keep an infection in check. A diet rich in killcium could lead to excessive fluctuations in its concentrations after meals and temporary death, at least with bone mobilization it's going to be predictable, but it also leads to death; killcium in this last case will be uniform throughout the body and the marble statue shouldn't deteriorate first on some parts than others.
 
Last edited:

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
Out of curiosity:
- Calcium and Virus Activation | David L. Watts

--
- Effect of Estrogen Treatment and Vitamin D Status on Differing Bioavailabilities of Calcium Carbonate and Calcium Citrate

"[..]each subject participated in three phases of a randomized, crossover design.
  • In the calcium citrate phase, the participants ingested a single dose of 500 mg elemental calcium as Citracal® 250 mg + D (two tablets of Citracal®, each tablet containing 250 mg elemental calcium and 62.5 IU of vitamin D, retailed by the Mission Pharmacal Company).
  • In the calcium carbonate phase, subjects took a single dose of 500 mg calcium as Os-Cal® 500 + D (one tablet containing 500 mg elemental calcium and 125 IU of vitamin D, marketed by GlaxoSmithKline). Since the trial, the vitamin D content of Os-Cal® 500 + D has increased to 200 IU.
  • In a third phase, subjects were given two placebo tablets prepared by the Mission Pharmacal Company to be similar in appearance to Citracal® 250 + D."

upload_2020-5-14_20-7-47.png



upload_2020-5-14_20-7-55.png

--

Unexpected fineness for the kind of blender.


- List of Approved Inks for Stamping Shell Eggs
- Ink composition (WO2015128646A1) | Google Patents

- Eggshell and protein membrane separation - Wikipedia

"The waste eggshells are put into water and then ground to separate the eggshell from the protein membrane.* Then the ground eggshell is placed in a separate vessel where air is injected into the water flow. The air and water mixture causes the lighter component (protein membrane) to float and the heavier (calcium carbonate eggshells) to sink. This unit recovers 96% of eggshell membrane and 99% of eggshell calcium carbonate in two hours.*"

* Utilization of calcium carbonate particles from eggshell waste as coating pigments for ink-jet printing paper

upload_2020-5-14_20-8-16.png

@healthnatura @LifeGivingStore @haidut (Jorge, I'm tagging you so that you can antecipate your enemies' moves)
I was reading a publication on the economical viability of opening a eggshell processing plant, it was surprisingly expensive equipment-wise, but return was predicted occur in a matter of weeks. To be fair, they wasn't criterious about sourcing, but I'm mentioning because there wasn't anyting elaborate that you couldn't replicate on a smaller scale for the community, it was all simple and low-tech even for an industry that's starting from scratch. Reacting them with acids isn't complex either:
- Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium "precipitate"
 
Last edited:

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- Calcium and Phosphate: A Duet of Ions Playing for Bone Health

"The mineral phase of bone is an analog of the naturally occurring mineral hydroxyapatite (Ca10(PO4)6(OH)2) [1]. The total amounts of Ca and P in a human adult of 70 kg are about 1300 g and 700 g, respectively. Bone contains about 99% and 80% of the whole body’s supply of Ca and P, respectively. In bone, the molar and mass ratios of Ca/P are about 1.7 and 2.2, respectively. The bone mass ratio of 2.2 is close to that measured in human milk, which may vary between 1.9 and 2.4 [2]. Note that the Ca/P ratio is somewhat lower (about 1.3) in cow, goat, and ewe milk [3]. In cow milk, the concentrations of Ca and P have been shown to be influenced by many factors, including postpartum and lactation time, race, season, climate, and nutrient supply [3]. In other dairy foods such as cheddar or yogurt, the Ca/P mass ratio is also around 1.3 [4]."

"Previous experimental studies of the impact of dietary Ca and Pi restrictions clearly identified the marked bone morphological differences according to which ion was limited, whereas the other was maintained at a normal level. Indeed, early investigations indicated that restriction of Ca intake in murine experimental models led to a commensurate reduction in both the organic matrix and the amount of mineral. In other words, there was less bony tissue within the periosteal envelope, but the ratio of mineral to organic matrix was histologically and chemically normal in Ca-deprived animals. Thus, the consequence of Ca deprivation was a pathologic condition mimicking the human disease clinically designated as osteoporosis.

In sharp contrast, restriction of Pi intake led to an imbalance in the mineral/organic matrix ratio, with the major defect consisting of a reduced deposition of mineral; the laying down of organic matrix was affected only minimally. In still developing animals, Pi deprivation impaired mineral deposition not only in the bones but also in the epiphyseal plates, a feature mimicking the pediatric disease rickets. Abnormalities in growth associated with severe long bone deformities are the hallmark of rickets-afflicted children. In adult animals, Pi deprivation causes osteomalacia, histologically characterized by unmineralized organic matrix, named osteoid seams."

"At the intestinal level, Ca and Pi interact in their respective absorbability and bioavailability [77–80].

Intake of a high Pi/low Ca diet—and, inversely, of a high Ca/low Pi diet—can impair the absorbability and bioavailability of the counterion when ingested in relatively reduced amounts. This can lead to disturbances in Ca and/or Pi homeostasis, with possible detrimental consequences on bone health. The severity of the disturbance depends upon several factors, including the magnitude of the ionic imbalance, the nature and form of the ingested salts (e.g., whether taken as supplements or foods), and the duration of exposure to the disequilibrated Ca-Pi diet [77–80]. A high Pi/low Ca diet can reduce the level of calcemia and thereby lead to secondary hyperparathyroidism [81]. Whether the increased circulating PTH level would be associated with increased osteoclastic resorption resulting over the long term in substantial bone loss is controversial.

A high Ca/low Pi diet can also be detrimental to bone health. As Ca intake increases without a corresponding increment in Pi consumption, the intestinal absorption of Pi falls, thus increasing the risk of Pi insufficiency. Although typical adult diets contain abundant Pi, it was estimated that 10%–15% of older women have Pi intakes that are less than 70% of the recommended daily allowance [82]. The risk of Pi insufficiency can be particularly accentuated in osteoporotic patients by use of Ca supplements that do not include Pi [83].

In the setting of osteoporosis management, a high Ca/low Pi approach could restrain the full potential of the therapeutic response to a bone-forming agent that markedly enhances the skeletal mineral demand. It is conceivable that concomitant therapy of a nonphosphate Ca salt associated with a powerful anabolic agent such as teriparatide, the active amino-terminal fragment of PTH [84], could limit the absorbability and bioavailability of Pi for drug-induced osteoblastic bone formation [82,83]. Thus, in osteoporosis therapy that uses powerful bone anabolic agents, a Ca-Pi supplement—or better, increased dairy intake—appears to be preferable to the usual prescribed nonphosphate Ca salt supplement [82]."

- An In Vitro Study on the Effect of Five Commercial Calcium Supplements on Human Osteoblast Cell Proliferation and Ca2+ Mineralization


- Bone Health In Depth | Linus Pauling Institute
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- Factors affecting utilization and requirements: vitamins and minerals

"In Malm's[11] classic studies on calcium requirements for adult man he describes a young man who for a time was in calcium balance at a particular level of calcium intake. However, when he started to prepare for an examination his calcium balance became strongly negative, with large increases in fecal calcium at the same levels of dietary intake. Fecal calcium, in this case, eventually exceeded calcium intake. When the anxiety was removed by postponement of the examination, calcium balance returned with the same dietary intake. Stearns[12] also noted a similar unexpected finding in calcium balance studies on adolescent girls; she found that emotional disturbance resulted in a prompt decrease in calcium retention, regardless of previous diet or nutrition. The amount of decrease in retention seemed to parallel the degree of emotional upset. In view of the rather common emotional instability of many adolescents, one wonders how much this may contribute to their malnutrition."​


- Calcium carbonate - Wikipedia

- The refeeding syndrome. Importance of phosphorus
Abstract said:
Refeeding syndrome (RS) is a complex disease that occurs when nutritional support is initiated after a period of starvation. The hallmark feature is the hypophosphataemia, however other biochemical abnormalities like hypokalaemia, hypomagnesaemia, thiamine deficiency and disorder of sodium and fluid balance are common.

The incidence of RS is unknown as no universally accepted definition exists, but it is frequently underdiagnosed.

RS is a potentially fatal, but preventable, disorder. The identification of patients at risk is crucial to improve their management.

If RS is diagnosed, there is one guideline (NICE 2006) in place to help its treatment (but it is based on low quality of evidence).

The aims of this review are: highlight the importance of this problem in malnourished patients, discuss the pathophysiology and clinical characteristics, with a final series of recommendations to reduce the risk of the syndrome and facilitate the treatment.
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
One more to maintain the 'equal or better' tradition:

- Comparison of the effects of calcium loading with calcium citrate or calcium carbonate on bone turnover in postmenopausal women
Abstract said:
We compared the effects of calcium carbonate and calcium citrate on markers of bone resorption in older postmenopausal women in an open-labeled crossover study. Forty women were randomized to receive 1000 mg/day of either calcium citrate or calcium carbonate [wasn't is elemental?] for 12 weeks, followed by a 2-week washout without calcium supplements and 12 weeks treatment with the alternate calcium supplement. All women received vitamin D (900 IU/day). Thirty-four women (25 Caucasian, nine Hispanic) completed the study. No significant differences in the decrease in parathyroid hormone (PTH) or bone specific alkaline phosphatase or the increase in urinary calcium/creatinine were detected between the two treatments. However, calcium citrate supplementation decreased the collagen cross-link resorption markers, urinary C-telopeptide (−31%), N-telopeptide (−30%), free deoxypyridinoline (−19%) and serum N-telopeptide (−8%), compared to no significant change following calcium carbonate supplementation (+2%, +3%, +2% and +2%, respectively; P<0.05). Calcium citrate decreased markers of bone resorption significantly more than calcium carbonate in postmenopausal women, although no differences in their effects in calcium excretion or PTH were detected.

upload_2020-6-17_12-47-11.png



"This was not attributable to compliance with calcium supplements since compliance was greater with calcium carbonate."

"While instructions were to take supplements with the morning and evening meal, compliance with this request may have been incomplete. If some of the women were achlorhydric, this would magnify the difference in calcium absorption in favor of calcium citrate in the fasting state [5]. However, studies in older individuals indicate that nearly 90% do not have impaired gastric acidity [23]."


- Koch in 'Clinical Demonstration Of The Laws Of Chemical Structure That Determine Immunity To Disease':

"[..]one should avoid such decalcifying acids as oxalic, tartaric, and even citric, unless the latter is neutralized somewhat by precipitated chalk. This is because; in cases suffering from deficient oxidation, the burning of citric acid may be difficult, and it may take away the valuable cations from the living colloids and carry them off into the urine. This so-called alkalizing action is evidently a catastrophe. On the other hand we may feed chalk, or give a low dilution of it, for a time at the beginning of Treatment, also, where bowel function must require a cathartic, milk of magnesia is preferred on a similar basis."​


- L-thyroxine malabsorption due to calcium carbonate impairs blood pressure, total cholesterolemia, and fasting glycemia

"[..]the interference of calcium salts on the intestinal absorption of L-T4 remains poorly appreciated by patients and physicians, particularly the general practitioners. This is also favored by the somewhat vague information provided by leaftlets, with statetements, such as “calcium salts may impair the intestinal absorption of thyroid hormones” or “calcium salts should be taken at interval of at least two hours from the thyroid hormone ingestion”. Leaflets of some calcium carbonate preparations do not even report interaction with L-T4, while providing details for other interactions, such as underscoring the interval of 4–6 h with respect to the ingestion of tetracyclines. Our data show that calcium carbonate has to be taken 6 or more hours after the ingestion of the L-T4 tablet. An insufficiently long interval not only increases serum TSH levels but also cholesterolemia, glycemia, and blood pressure values. It is possible that such complications may apply to the L-T4 malabsoprtion caused by other medicines. Should our data be confirmed, monitoring of hypothyroid patients who ingest medications interfering with the intestinal absorption of L-T4 should be more careful and not restricted to the sole measurement of serum TSH."
 
Last edited:

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
- 79. Parathyroid Hormone, Calcitonin, Calcium and Phosphate Metabolism, Vitamin D, Bone, and Teeth -- Guyton and Hall Textbook of Medical Physiology (9781455753451) | doctorlib.info

"Bone is deposited in proportion to the compressional load that the bone must carry. For instance, the bones of athletes become considerably heavier than those of nonathletes. Also, if a person has one leg in a cast but continues to walk on the opposite leg, the bone of the leg in the cast becomes thin and as much as 30 percent decalcified within a few weeks [?], whereas the opposite bone remains thick and normally calcified. Therefore, continual physical stress stimulates osteoblastic deposition and calcification of bone."

"Bone stress also determines the shape of bones under certain circumstances. For instance, if a long bone of the leg breaks in its center and then heals at an angle, the compression stress on the inside of the angle causes increased deposition of bone. Increased absorption occurs on the outer side of the angle where the bone is not compressed. After many years of increased deposition on the inner side of the angulated bone and absorption on the outer side, the bone can become almost straight, especially in children because of the rapid remodeling of bone at younger ages."

"Even the slightest decrease in calcium ion concentration in the extracellular fluid causes the parathyroid glands to increase their rate of secretion within minutes; if the decreased calcium concentration persists, the glands will hypertrophy, sometimes fivefold or more. For instance, the parathyroid glands become greatly enlarged in rickets, in which the level of calcium is usually depressed only a small amount. They also become greatly enlarged in pregnancy, even though the decrease in calcium ion concentration in the mother’s extracellular fluid is hardly measurable, and they are greatly enlarged during lactation because calcium is used for milk formation."

"Conversely, conditions that increase the calcium ion concentration above normal cause decreased activity and reduced size of the parathyroid glands. Such conditions include (1) excess quantities of calcium in the diet, (2) increased vitamin D in the diet, and (3) bone absorption caused by factors other than PTH (e.g., bone absorption caused by disuse of the bones)."​
 

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,113
- 79. Parathyroid Hormone, Calcitonin, Calcium and Phosphate Metabolism, Vitamin D, Bone, and Teeth -- Guyton and Hall Textbook of Medical Physiology (9781455753451) | doctorlib.info

"Bone is deposited in proportion to the compressional load that the bone must carry. For instance, the bones of athletes become considerably heavier than those of nonathletes. Also, if a person has one leg in a cast but continues to walk on the opposite leg, the bone of the leg in the cast becomes thin and as much as 30 percent decalcified within a few weeks [?], whereas the opposite bone remains thick and normally calcified. Therefore, continual physical stress stimulates osteoblastic deposition and calcification of bone."

"Bone stress also determines the shape of bones under certain circumstances. For instance, if a long bone of the leg breaks in its center and then heals at an angle, the compression stress on the inside of the angle causes increased deposition of bone. Increased absorption occurs on the outer side of the angle where the bone is not compressed. After many years of increased deposition on the inner side of the angulated bone and absorption on the outer side, the bone can become almost straight, especially in children because of the rapid remodeling of bone at younger ages."

"Even the slightest decrease in calcium ion concentration in the extracellular fluid causes the parathyroid glands to increase their rate of secretion within minutes; if the decreased calcium concentration persists, the glands will hypertrophy, sometimes fivefold or more. For instance, the parathyroid glands become greatly enlarged in rickets, in which the level of calcium is usually depressed only a small amount. They also become greatly enlarged in pregnancy, even though the decrease in calcium ion concentration in the mother’s extracellular fluid is hardly measurable, and they are greatly enlarged during lactation because calcium is used for milk formation."

"Conversely, conditions that increase the calcium ion concentration above normal cause decreased activity and reduced size of the parathyroid glands. Such conditions include (1) excess quantities of calcium in the diet, (2) increased vitamin D in the diet, and (3) bone absorption caused by factors other than PTH (e.g., bone absorption caused by disuse of the bones)."​
Bone density can also be increased/maintained with sufficient protein, vitamin K2, silicon/monomethylsilanetriol, minimizing stress, net alkaline diet, etc..
 

Amazoniac

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
8,583
Location
Not Uganda
Saving for later..

- Improvement in host metabolic homeostasis and alteration in gut microbiota in mice on the high-fat diet: A comparison of calcium supplements
Abstract said:
Despite the previously reported health benefits of calcium intake for the attenuation of metabolic disease, few studies have investigated the relationships among calcium intake, gut microbiota, and host metabolism. In this study, we assessed the effects of calcium supplementation on host microbial community composition and metabolic homeostasis. Mice were fed a high-fat diet with different calcium concentrations (4 and 12 g/kg) of 2 calcium supplements, calcium carbonate and calcium citrate. Supplementation with the higher concentration of calcium citrate significantly prevented body weight gain and decreased plasma biomarkers for metabolic disorder compared to calcium carbonate supplementation. Both calcium supplementation led to changes in microbial composition, increased propionate production and increased anorexigenic GLP-1 gene expression. The calcium citrate groups also experienced less metabolic endotoxemia. Our findings suggested that calcium supplementation could ameliorate host metabolic disorder caused by a high-fat diet, due to gut microbiota changes as well as decreased intestinal inflammation.
 

LeeLemonoil

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2016
Messages
4,265
Amazoniac, your delving into both calcium and Vit D is awe inspiring and applepeeling.

Would you pls not mind my undercomplex and silly question to you please?

For someone like me who cannot tolerate dairy very well, even cheeses, which amount of which form of Ca would you suggest?

Also, do you think there Are any additional benefits tocalcium pyruvate as a supplement ?
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom